"Don't worry, I'll tell the chef ": Thunderball Appreciation & Discussion

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  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    And they are both iconic - especially important for a young lad - the car, the naked girl, Oddjob, the volcano, ninjas!

    When I was first getting into Bondage, there were some important bibles (i.e. Bond reference books), which described GF and YOLT to have more pace than TB. I wonder if that has any bearing as to why I find GF/YOLT such a good match up, rooted in the fledgling psyche of a young Bond fan?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    royale65 wrote: »
    And they are both iconic - especially important for a young lad - the car, the naked girl, Oddjob, the volcano, ninjas!
    That they certainly are. If one were to name the most iconic Connery Bond films, GF/YOLT would certainly come to mind.
    royale65 wrote: »
    When I was first getting into Bondage, there were some important bibles (i.e. Bond reference books), which described GF and YOLT to have more pace than TB. I wonder if that has any bearing as to why I find GF/YOLT such a good match up, rooted in the fledgling psyche of a young Bond fan?
    When I was younger, these were my two favourites of his (not any more though) along with the Moore entries, so it's quite possible.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I just posted my comprehensive thoughts on Thunderball on my blog, if anyone wanted to give it a read:

    https://fortressoffleming.wordpress.com/2017/05/18/a-fortress-of-fleming-review-thunderball-1965/
  • Posts: 19,339
    I will print that out and have a look !!
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I love Thunderball - my solid #2 forever. I especially like the Shrublands scenes since they are a very good contrast to all the later scenes in the caribbean. I can't think of anything I dislike about the film.

    It's still topped by GF though because I like the overall plot of GF a bit more and Gert Fröbe is the superiour villain with the ultimate henchman of Oddjob. I personally compare the golf scenes of GF to the Shrublands scenes in TB ... they are slower in pace and provide a nice break in the narrative.
  • Posts: 19,339
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    I love Thunderball - my solid #2 forever. I especially like the Shrublands scenes since they are a very good contrast to all the later scenes in the caribbean. I can't think of anything I dislike about the film.

    It's still topped by GF though because I like the overall plot of GF a bit more and Gert Fröbe is the superiour villain with the ultimate henchman of Oddjob. I personally compare the golf scenes of GF to the Shrublands scenes in TB ... they are slower in pace and provide a nice break in the narrative.


    Spot on..i love those scenes...shame they seemed to have died out,although I do like the pheasant shoot scene in MR.
  • Posts: 14,910
    I just posted my comprehensive thoughts on Thunderball on my blog, if anyone wanted to give it a read:

    https://fortressoffleming.wordpress.com/2017/05/18/a-fortress-of-fleming-review-thunderball-1965/

    Will definitely have a read.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    bondsum wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Fleming must have quite liked Ursula Andress in DN though. He included her in OHMSS.
    Indeed he did, like most full-bloodied males of the time, he was completely enraptured by her charms.

    DN is one of my favourite JB books, and as @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 points out, Fleming manages to transport the reader there.

    I totally agree. DN does transport you there. Your their sipping a G & T on the hotel balcony (with a whole lime) etc!
  • Posts: 14,910
    The death of Molly Peters reminded me of how rare this type of Bond girl is. She was a true English rose.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 19,339
    Bog off GF,this is arguably the best Connery Bond performance ,alongside FRWL !! ;)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I think it was Wiz who came up with this line "Connery flouncing about the Bahamas". It describes my feeling towards TB somewhat. I'd be having fun if I was in the Caribbean with Claudine, Luciana and Martine...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Hard to pick from Sean's first four, as he is truly iconic and mesmerizing in each, no hyperbole.

    DN may be his most layered, as it's a quiet performance that relies a lot on his subtle body language to convey what Bond is thinking; like the scenes in his hotel or over dinner with Dr. No. But even in his debut his strengths for subtlety and depth are clear, and he quickly shows that he doesn't need any words to light a fire on a scene. Look at his scenes with Zena Marshall's Taro, where all his actions speak for him; the way he masks his anger at her betrayal of him as foreplay, how he engineers them to stay in the room while the cops lie in wait, etc. Sean perfectly conveys the rich mind of Bond, and how he can always think steps ahead.

    FRWL is probably his objective best, with a lot in the script to really give him time to shine, not only in the lighter moments but in the real grit of drama too. Just taking his acting with Shaw on the train in the second half is enough to show just how brilliant he was, able to convey so many emotions and feelings in Bond with a look or tightening of his jawline. You feel how dead to rights Bond is, and that's uncomfortable. He and Daniela Biachi also have a shimmering chemistry, and Sean is able to bring out the more light and lustful/sensual side of Bond in reaction to his acting partner. A very layered performance, that conveys Bond's dark humor, but also his fear and his heart. Moments like his reaction to Kerim's death say it all, and how he tears the door of the train compartment over and stares into Daniela's eyes, playing up Bond's distrust and rage. Perfection.

    GF is probably Sean's most sensual and passionate performance, as you really see Bond going at women with a thirst and getting upset when they're taken from him. Sean really plays up Bond's lust perfectly, probably better than he ever did before or after, and you feel the attraction he has to the women as the film goes on. Just that shot of Shirley rising to look out the binoculars in the opening in Miami says it all, as you can see how Sean moves himself away just a little so that her face is right up against his and he can sneak a smell of her hair. Little moments like that show the thought he put into his acting, and it adds so much to the scenes that he was that on the ball. He also flares his nostrils like mad in the movie to convey his anger, disgust or attraction, which is a whole other part of the performance you could spend forever talking about. It's also the film that made me question everything I knew about my sexuality (being hyperbolic here) because Sean is so damn captivating in it. Watching GF shows you why he was so sought after and envied. The man was an animal, and never looked better than in this film, beyond alluring and handsome.

    TB is a great sequel to what Sean did in DN and FRWL, fitting that it's the last in a trilogy started by the two previous Young films. We see all that made the last two films great here, which is Bond moving around his hotel and subtly setting up traps, and Sean really showing us the danger of Bond's life in some high risk moments. There's so much subtext and nuance in what Sean does in the film, especially when he's around Claudine's Domino. We can feel Bond snap to attention when he sees Largo mistreat the girl, and watch as he becomes the protector. His dancing scene with Claudine after Bond and Domino meet says so much, simply by the way Sean holds the woman with a sensitive and caring touch. When Domino tells Bond she loves the way he holds her, you believe it because Sean conveys that immense sense of protection and thoughtfulness. The chemistry Sean and Claudine had goes a long way toward making TB so classic, because it makes each moment between them more powerful. They're perfectly romantic and frivolous in their light scenes, but when Bond must tell Domino what happened to her brother Sean and Claudine really step up and show their depth; just that close-up shot of Claudine crying in reaction to Domino's pain is amazing.

    Sean's best acting probably comes during the moment when Fiona surprises Bond in his hotel, and we see he and Luciana beautifully play off each other. We see the reserved and slightly charred expressions of Bond as he tries to think of a way out of the situation he's fumbled into, and the expressions of Fiona as she reacts to Bond's harsh words. Sean's acting in Bond's escape is amazing, and you completely feel his fear as he races between the crowds of people. That one shot of him at the Kiss Kiss Club bar, completely out of ideas as he's surrounded, is Fleming's Bond come to life. He plays it so perfectly, getting a girl to dance with as awkwardly as a man facing death would, and when he's dancing with Luciana he again perfectly emotes Bond's feelings as he sees that gun rise from the curtain. Who knows what could happen next? It's easy to feel that Bond could die, even though we know he won't, and that's what makes the moment so brilliant.

    Since this is the Thunderball appreciation thread, can we agree that one of the greatest moments in Bond history, and one of the greatest shots, is the one of Bond just dancing with Fiona's limp corpse as he tries to cover up the blood seeping from the wound, Sean's face saying, "I wish I didn't have to do this?"

    So much is said by him with no words, and I guess that's what makes him the best. ;)
  • Posts: 1,905
    Great post, 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7.
  • mattjoesmattjoes DAY OF THE BROSNAN
    Posts: 6,927
    Could Guy Doleman have played M in the Bond films?
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Great post, 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 indeed. I love TB a lot - to me it never drags or becomes boring. You highlighted the sensual parts of Seans's acting perfectly. The action scenes (yes, I mean all that underwater action, too!) to me are still awesome and I perfectly enjoy the whole movie from start to end. The soundtrack is top notch, too.

    I am a great fan of this movie and thus NSNA never really had a chance for me - even I actually appreciate Sean's acting as an aging 007.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Thunderball has one of the very best main title sequences.
  • Posts: 11,189
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Hard to pick from Sean's first four, as he is truly iconic and mesmerizing in each, no hyperbole.

    DN may be his most layered, as it's a quiet performance that relies a lot on his subtle body language to convey what Bond is thinking; like the scenes in his hotel or over dinner with Dr. No. But even in his debut his strengths for subtlety and depth are clear, and he quickly shows that he doesn't need any words to light a fire on a scene. Look at his scenes with Zena Marshall's Taro, where all his actions speak for him; the way he masks his anger at her betrayal of him as foreplay, how he engineers them to stay in the room while the cops lie in wait, etc. Sean perfectly conveys the rich mind of Bond, and how he can always think steps ahead.

    FRWL is probably his objective best, with a lot in the script to really give him time to shine, not only in the lighter moments but in the real grit of drama too. Just taking his acting with Shaw on the train in the second half is enough to show just how brilliant he was, able to convey so many emotions and feelings in Bond with a look or tightening of his jawline. You feel how dead to rights Bond is, and that's uncomfortable. He and Daniela Biachi also have a shimmering chemistry, and Sean is able to bring out the more light and lustful/sensual side of Bond in reaction to his acting partner. A very layered performance, that conveys Bond's dark humor, but also his fear and his heart. Moments like his reaction to Kerim's death say it all, and how he tears the door of the train compartment over and stares into Daniela's eyes, playing up Bond's distrust and rage. Perfection.

    GF is probably Sean's most sensual and passionate performance, as you really see Bond going at women with a thirst and getting upset when they're taken from him. Sean really plays up Bond's lust perfectly, probably better than he ever did before or after, and you feel the attraction he has to the women as the film goes on. Just that shot of Shirley rising to look out the binoculars in the opening in Miami says it all, as you can see how Sean moves himself away just a little so that her face is right up against his and he can sneak a smell of her hair. Little moments like that show the thought he put into his acting, and it adds so much to the scenes that he was that on the ball. He also flares his nostrils like mad in the movie to convey his anger, disgust or attraction, which is a whole other part of the performance you could spend forever talking about. It's also the film that made me question everything I knew about my sexuality (being hyperbolic here) because Sean is so damn captivating in it. Watching GF shows you why he was so sought after and envied. The man was an animal, and never looked better than in this film, beyond alluring and handsome.

    TB is a great sequel to what Sean did in DN and FRWL, fitting that it's the last in a trilogy started by the two previous Young films. We see all that made the last two films great here, which is Bond moving around his hotel and subtly setting up traps, and Sean really showing us the danger of Bond's life in some high risk moments. There's so much subtext and nuance in what Sean does in the film, especially when he's around Claudine's Domino. We can feel Bond snap to attention when he sees Largo mistreat the girl, and watch as he becomes the protector. His dancing scene with Claudine after Bond and Domino meet says so much, simply by the way Sean holds the woman with a sensitive and caring touch. When Domino tells Bond she loves the way he holds her, you believe it because Sean conveys that immense sense of protection and thoughtfulness. The chemistry Sean and Claudine had goes a long way toward making TB so classic, because it makes each moment between them more powerful. They're perfectly romantic and frivolous in their light scenes, but when Bond must tell Domino what happened to her brother Sean and Claudine really step up and show their depth; just that close-up shot of Claudine crying in reaction to Domino's pain is amazing.

    Sean's best acting probably comes during the moment when Fiona surprises Bond in his hotel, and we see he and Luciana beautifully play off each other. We see the reserved and slightly charred expressions of Bond as he tries to think of a way out of the situation he's fumbled into, and the expressions of Fiona as she reacts to Bond's harsh words. Sean's acting in Bond's escape is amazing, and you completely feel his fear as he races between the crowds of people. That one shot of him at the Kiss Kiss Club bar, completely out of ideas as he's surrounded, is Fleming's Bond come to life. He plays it so perfectly, getting a girl to dance with as awkwardly as a man facing death would, and when he's dancing with Luciana he again perfectly emotes Bond's feelings as he sees that gun rise from the curtain. Who knows what could happen next? It's easy to feel that Bond could die, even though we know he won't, and that's what makes the moment so brilliant.

    Since this is the Thunderball appreciation thread, can we agree that one of the greatest moments in Bond history, and one of the greatest shots, is the one of Bond just dancing with Fiona's limp corpse as he tries to cover up the blood seeping from the wound, Sean's face saying, "I wish I didn't have to do this?"

    So much is said by him with no words, and I guess that's what makes him the best. ;)

    Perfect post mate.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,120
    @Brady great post. @Bain123 why was I watching a 13y/o commenting on TB, calling it 'everything wrong with TB' and then complain about 1. Fiona's physicalities and then 2. the lack of those physicalities?
  • Posts: 1,905
    Yeah, not sure why in a TB appreciation thread we need somebody's take on what's wrong with the film when I can read Brady's take giving me a different take on things I can enjoy about it. So that's the basic up and downsides to the World Wide Web.
  • Posts: 11,189
    It was meant to be a light-hearted post. The "Everything Wrong" videos have been done for all sorts of films - including several Bond films. They aren't meant as serious criticisms as several classic films have also been subject to the videos.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Brady great post. @Bain123 why was I watching a 13y/o commenting on TB, calling it 'everything wrong with TB' and then complain about 1. Fiona's physicalities and then 2. the lack of those physicalities?

    Who would rip on Luciana's body? The only thing wrong with her in that movie is that Sean was cast instead of me to throw about in the sheets with her. (Sorry Sean, love you)

    Another little thing I love about TB that is blink and you miss it: how much of an animal Fiona is. Biting Bond's shoulder and ear when they're in bed, talking of being in a cage, the movie really worked to make her seem like a wild cat and that is very much appreciated. Sean plays it all perfectly too, though it's hard not to act enchanted when you've got that girl next to you.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!

    I'd have promptly asked the crew to leave the set, or enticed Ms. Paluzzi to stay after filming had concluded, best case scenario. Sean could've gotten away with it, but my chances probably wouldn't be as good.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!

    I'd have promptly asked the crew to leave the set, or enticed Ms. Paluzzi to stay after filming had concluded, best case scenario. Sean could've gotten away with it, but my chances probably wouldn't be as good.

    Same here but sod it,worth a try eh ?! ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!

    I'd have promptly asked the crew to leave the set, or enticed Ms. Paluzzi to stay after filming had concluded, best case scenario. Sean could've gotten away with it, but my chances probably wouldn't be as good.

    Same here but sod it,worth a try eh ?! ;)

    Well, we've got to get to work on that time machine then, @barryt007. But if we do get one working and operational, I'll forget everything and head to 1950 Hollywood to romance a Marilyn Monroe who would share my age. That means you can have Luciana all to yourself in the 60s.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!

    I'd have promptly asked the crew to leave the set, or enticed Ms. Paluzzi to stay after filming had concluded, best case scenario. Sean could've gotten away with it, but my chances probably wouldn't be as good.

    Same here but sod it,worth a try eh ?! ;)

    Well, we've got to get to work on that time machine then, @barryt007. But if we do get one working and operational, I'll forget everything and head to 1950 Hollywood to romance a Marilyn Monroe who would share my age. That means you can have Luciana all to yourself in the 60s.

    Ooooh good call....Norma Jeane eh ?

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Its hard to act at all when that girl is next to you....wowowowowowowow....sex on legs !!

    I'd have promptly asked the crew to leave the set, or enticed Ms. Paluzzi to stay after filming had concluded, best case scenario. Sean could've gotten away with it, but my chances probably wouldn't be as good.

    Same here but sod it,worth a try eh ?! ;)

    Well, we've got to get to work on that time machine then, @barryt007. But if we do get one working and operational, I'll forget everything and head to 1950 Hollywood to romance a Marilyn Monroe who would share my age. That means you can have Luciana all to yourself in the 60s.

    Ooooh good call....Norma Jeane eh ?

    Probably the one woman from the past I'd do anything to spend a few hours with. People seem to usually define her as a sex symbol, but below all that facade she was a brainy, witty, compassionate and sweet woman with a rough past. I'd love to pick her brain for a little bit, talk poetry or literature with her, maybe music. Anything, really.
  • Posts: 14,910
    @Brady great post. @Bain123 why was I watching a 13y/o commenting on TB, calling it 'everything wrong with TB' and then complain about 1. Fiona's physicalities and then 2. the lack of those physicalities?

    Who would rip on Luciana's body? The only thing wrong with her in that movie is that Sean was cast instead of me to throw about in the sheets with her. (Sorry Sean, love you)

    Another little thing I love about TB that is blink and you miss it: how much of an animal Fiona is. Biting Bond's shoulder and ear when they're in bed, talking of being in a cage, the movie really worked to make her seem like a wild cat and that is very much appreciated. Sean plays it all perfectly too, though it's hard not to act enchanted when you've got that girl next to you.

    What's wrong with it is that she keeps it covered. That's the only thing.

    On a side note, that's maybe the one and only time in a Bond movie when you know exactly when the Bond girl is penetrated! Which makes it the most explicit scene of the series.
  • Posts: 17,470
    This thread is turning into an R-rated discussion! Then again, any discussion about Fiona Volpe will most likely do so...
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