PTS OPINIONS : BROSNAN BOND vs CRAIG BOND rankings

edited September 2018 in Bond Movies Posts: 19,339
Thanks to @Thunderfinger for a simple suggestion that seems to taking over the 'controversial' thread :

Here is mine,a tough choice actually,(which one would i put on to watch ) :

1) TWINE
2) TND
3) QOS
4) CR
5) GE
6) SF
7) DAD
8) SP

Yours ?


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Comments

  • Posts: 15,327
    Missing a few, @barryt007…? Here's my list. Love the TWINE one, and can't help but placing it first. GE is a classic, while QoS is just so energetic.

    1. TWINE
    2. GE
    3. QoS
    4. CR
    5.TND
    6. DAD
    7. SF
    8. SP
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,035
    1.GE
    2.DAD
    3.TND
    4.TWINE
    5.CR
    6.QOS
    7.SF
    8.SP
  • Posts: 19,339
    Missing a few, @barryt007…? Here's my list. Love the TWINE one, and can't help but placing it first. GE is a classic, while QoS is just so energetic.

    1. TWINE
    2. GE
    3. QoS
    4. CR
    5.TND
    6. DAD
    7. SF
    8. SP

    A long long week Torg,thanks pal ,as ever .
  • mattjoesmattjoes matthaujoes
    Posts: 4,222
    1. TWINE
    2. GE
    3. DAD
    4. TND
    5. Sp
    6. CR
    7. Sf
    8. QoS
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2018 Posts: 3,730
    For my feeling CR have two.., so then..

    1.Twine
    2. GE
    3. Tmnd
    4. Spectre
    5. QOS
    6. CR (Madagascar)
    7. SF
    8. DAD
    9. CR (Toilet scene)

    The helicopter part whas a litle bit disapointed and i wish it be a bit longer earlier. Then one from Spectre have mabey end on the 3th or 2th place.
  • Posts: 444
    1.CR - Short and sweet and stylishly done.
    2.SF - The action could have been faster and tighter but it certainly threw enough action in. Just hated the indiscreet product placement of "VW Beetle I think" and then the cut to the watch.
    3.TWINE - I used to regard this as one of the best but on subsequent watches it seems needlessly long and the stunts unexceptional, too safe and rehearsed, a typical Vic Armstrong effort I take it?
    4.DAD - Another poorly paced and shot effort from Vic but I like the bleakness of the setting and the downbeat ending.
    5.QOS - There's some great stuntwork and it looks good but I wish we'd been allowed to linger a little longer on all of it rather than lose it in the editing.
    6.SP - Ruined immediately by the fudge after the gun barrel and the CGI building. Interesting that this is one of the few occasions in which the public are in danger and they can be heard screaming as the helicopter circles and dives.
    7.TND - Not much to this one. More machine guns and explosions from Brozza and his pain face. Fortunately the film gets better.
    8.GE - Gets the Brosnan era off to a bad start immediately for me. Brosnan too self-consciously playing Bond, posing as him rather than living the character. All the 'for England' crap, machine gun slaughter and the fake end stunt. Ugh. Granted I was in a sulk from the offset due to the absence of Dalton but this PTS didn't do much to win me over to the newboy in the way that OHMSS and TLD did.
  • Posts: 5,752
    Good thread @barryt007 -- and I'm sure one that will keep evolving... (I actually watched DAD's PTS today with my 17 year old son).


    PTSs are so unique, and for the first twenty years of my Bond fandom, GF and TB were the tops... At another time in my life TWINE took over briefly (and I was not a lover of the PB era, but thought the story was sound, from beginning to end)...

    Now, in my jaded years, I will do my best to compare the PB to DC PTSs. Here it is (subject to change):

    I will now watch each one individually and rate them:

    1/ QoS: masculine and visceral action but embedded in who this Bond is-- action is character, and character is action.
    2/ SF: once again reflects character through action-- Bond sees Ronson's bleeding out, the hard drive is gone, he can stay and help, but through a sense of higher duty, he leaves a dying man behind to chase a murderer (first on foot (in the flat)), by car, motorcycle, train and hand to hand combat... amazing...
    CR: yes this was an amazing set-up, with some jarring violence (which I loved), but it's a story/character introduction, so lacked the action of the the above three. But, saying that, the introduction created some nice suspense.

    SP: as noted in the controversial thread, I have no problem with the piss filter. In fact it adds to the filthiness of the scene (a planned bomb attack); I love the reference to Kubrick; the throbbing Bond theme. Traveling along the rooftops like a ghost (spectre), the assassinations and the fight on the chopper...

    GE (the PTS tells a very nice and dark story, with great action, staging and a little humour as well; a great re-introduction to 007 after a long absence-- drawbacks is that catching up to a falling plane. I mean, science!! Gravity!! All that. A man who weighs 165 lbs will not catch up to a falling plane. Ever.)...

    TND (once the action gets going, it's brilliant. I love how Bond blows away as much as he can before take-off (and DA is awesome!!))
    TWINE (I like the throw-back to Mr. Henderson's death from YOLT, and; Bond's escape from the office. Watching this time round though, PB is more affected than usual)... (But DA's score is awesome yet again! It does elevate 007's escape)
    DAD (it's an interesting little story that would benefit to some edits to get the action going sooner)(But, again, DA's soundtrack lifts the action)

    To be fair, the bottom five are still enjoyable to me...
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited September 2018 Posts: 2,989
    1. TND- The single greatest PTS in the series.
    2. TWINE- The second greatest PTS in the series.
    3. GE- Every single part of this opening is awesome.
    4. CR- At #4 for its clever use of the gun barrel.
    5. SP- The helicopter stunt makes this sequence.
    6. DAD- The hovercraft chase is decent.
    7. SF- The bike chase and train fight are okay.
    8. QOS- This is what happens when a film editor has a seizure while on the job and wishes the audience to suffer a similar fate.
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 830
    1. CR
    2. TND
    3. GE
    4. SF
    5. TWINE
    6. DAD
    7. SP
    8. QOS

    Not willing to say that any of these are "bad" though.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,499
    1. GE/TWINE/CR/QOS - Perfection. Awesome. Biblical.
    Can't choose between them. It depends on which one I'm watching.

    2. DAD - love the surfing, the coloring, the dialogue, the hovercraft chase, all awesome.

    3. TND - little generic but great stuff nonetheless. Badass action.

    4. SF - the action is well shot but it seems a little "slow". The car chase is especially guilty of this. The music could have been better during the motorcycle chase. The train section is much better. Great end.

    5. SP - the tracking shot is cool but gets old on repeat viewings. The music starts out great though and Craig walking on the rooftops is great. I've never minded the CGI building crash. The actual chase is pretty boring. The helicopter sequence is impressive but feels tired and let down by poor background effects. Also, that damn filter.

    Say what you will about EON, but they have a pretty good track record when it comes to PTS's.
  • edited September 2018 Posts: 11,824
    Ranking the Barbara/Mickey G era PTS openings. Good thread. Here goes:


    1. GOLDENEYE- a holdover from the Glen style of PTS. An action packed aerial stunt extravaganza. I still prefer TLD's intro for Tim, though.

    2. DIE ANOTHER DAY- I actually really like this PTS. Great gunbarrel music and overall score by Arnold. Brosnan looks great in that outfit, and the chase sequence is solid without overstaying it's welcome.

    3. THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH- I love Cigar Girl, which is why I rank this 3rd. A bit too long for a PTS, IMO. However had the sequence ended as originally planned with Bond's escape from the banker's office, I think that might have been a pretty flat opening.

    4. TOMORROW NEVER DIES - Never was crazy about Arnold's GB music here. This sequence breaks the then tradition of attempting outlandish stunt, and gives us a simple shoot up with some aerial action. Pierce looks great again , here in that leather jacket.
    I always felt certain shots were unnecessary: reaction shots of a worried M, the shot of Robinson "Get out of it, James!".

    5. CASINO ROYALE- I love classic 1950's black and white film noir, which this slightly reminds me of. Craig's first shot as Bond is understated, and the quick cuts to the bathroom fight are jarring. I also love that Craig's first gunbarrel is in black and white akin to the early films, and it segues beautifully into the titles. This PTS is short and sweet, like the very early Connery openings.

    6. SKYFALL - Aside from that opening blurry shot of Bond, which even on Blu-ray looks like a dub from a crummy VHS transfer....a shot Mendes felt was superior to any opening image Maurice Binder could have come up with............and the anger I felt when I saw it...........the rest of the PTS is pretty good. I always liked train rooftop fights. Okay moving on...........

    7. QUANTUM OF SOLACE- another short and sweet PTS marred only by the lack of a gunbarrel. I really don't mind the rapid cut editing. The chase is quite exciting, and the simplicity of the PTS works in it's favor for me. I do feel that last shot of Craig freezing as it segues into the titles a bit cheezy today, though.


    8. SPECTRE- Roger Moore's entire Bond era could fit in the span between the last time we had an opening gunbarrel and this. Did Maurice Binder do something wrong? Did he steal someone's girlfriend or something and make Eon angry enough with him to disrespect him for so many years? Finally we get the iconic opening and not only is the music out of sync and crummy, the image looks like it was pasted on at the last minute. Wow. Kleinman's Brosnan version was beautiful, so why this flat, lifeless, spoofy, dim looking rendition?

    I do find the opening shot a bit dull. Things improve once Bond steps out onto the roof DAF style and we get some great Bondian feel and tone to the opening. I almost think the scene should have ended here before the building explodes and collapses, etc
    Cut to the titles and have the events of the PTS referred to in the M sequence dialogue. The helicopter fight doesn't do much for me, neither does the close up of the hand as Bond identifies the ring he must steal.


  • edited September 2018 Posts: 14,630
    Like others my first four are difficult to split as they are all top tier PTS IMO.

    1. QoS
    2.TWINE
    3. GE
    4. CR
    5. TND awesome music.
    6. DAD
    7. SF
    8. SP

    The last two are for me the best parts of there respective films, they are good but lack the excitement of many other PTS.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 11,238
    1. TND
    2. GE
    3. TWINE
    4. DAD
    5. CR
    6. SF
    7. QOS
    8. SP

    No Craig-hater here, but one thing is clear to me - that Brozza's PTS's were all of near-equally immense fun, where Craig's are a bit hit-and-miss. Some cool stunts in the most recent 2 films though.

    TND has probably my favourite PTS in the entire series. From surveilling the arms bazaar to Bond's first line of dialogue, unleashing chaos on the terrorists, and blowing the phu-yuck out of everything. And then, with limited time left, analyzing Bond's strategy of making his way through the bazaar to steal the jet and later, flipping Admiral Roebuck the proverbial bird is priceless. Add in the fact that all of MI6 is watching their top agent in action (probably for the first time), M and Robinson visibly in awe, and we have an insanely awesome opening to a very slick film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Joe Don Baker Street
    Posts: 40,798
    1 CR
    2 SP
    3 SF
    4 QOS
    5 TWINE
    6 TND
    7 GE
    8 DAD
  • Posts: 15,327
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Missing a few, @barryt007…? Here's my list. Love the TWINE one, and can't help but placing it first. GE is a classic, while QoS is just so energetic.

    1. TWINE
    2. GE
    3. QoS
    4. CR
    5.TND
    6. DAD
    7. SF
    8. SP

    A long long week Torg,thanks pal ,as ever .

    Know the feeling!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2018 Posts: 23,883
    1. GE
    2. TND
    3. SF
    4. TWINE
    5. QoS
    6. DAD
    7. CR
    8. SP

    The first three are exceptional and up there with the best of them in my humble opinion.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Defender of Timothy Dalton, George Lazenby, Éric Serra & Bill Conti!
    Posts: 5,438
    1 GoldenEye
    2 The World Is Not Enough
    3 Tomorrow Never Dies
    4 Quantum of Solace
    5 Casino Royale
    6 Die Another Day
    7 Spectre
    8 Skyfall
  • Posts: 1,548
    1.CR. Best Bond ever.
    2.Skyfall.
    3.Spectre.
    4 QOS
    5.GE
    6.TND
    7.TWINE
    8. DAD
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,163
    1. GE
    2. TND
    3. SF
    4. TWINE
    5. SP
    6. CR
    7. QoS
    8. DAD

    Much tougher to rank them than i thought. I'll set on this ranking... For now.
  • Posts: 3,135
    1. QOS. Visceral, thrilling and Bond was never cooler.
    2 CR. Short, sharp and with an awesome lead into the titles!
    3. SP. Apart from the building collapse, this is spectacular, and the helicopter stunts are superb.
    4. SF. hit and miss, and has some good parts, but the other 3 are better!
    5. TWINE some good boat stunts, but was waaay too long and gurning Brossa doesn't help.
    6. GE. Liked the barrels crashing down moment, apart from that pretty yawnsome and terrible dialogue.
    7. TND tedious Vic Armstrong "let's just have explosions and gunfire..that'll do!" nonsense.
    8. DAD. more of the same..only less so!!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited September 2018 Posts: 10,424
    TWINE
    This one is pure nostalgia for me. Brosnan is an absolute badass in Bilbao, and the boat chase is endlessly iconic and wonderfully scored.

    SF
    Despite knowing how it ended beforehand, seeing this PTS for the first time was an unforgettable experience. The action isn't groundbreaking (though it seriously picks up one the train comes in), but the tension due to the stakes are what make the entire sequence one of the best openings of the series. It features some of Newman's best work as well.

    TND
    Total 90s action film blaze. It's fun, tense, and very well scored. Brosnan kicks ass and the action is well choreographed.

    GE
    It's quite silly in parts, but extremely entertaining (much like the film itself). The dam jump is an instant classic moment.

    QOS
    I understand why the editing is bothersome to many, but the scene remains one of the most visceral moments in Bond history.

    SP
    It was great to see Craig's Bond in a classically Bondian scenario such as this. The tracking shot is great, but the sequence doesn't really pick up until the helicopter comes in. The stunts are undeniably impressive (although the green screen effects could've been improved). Newman recycling Grand Bazaar is unfortunate, as I can't help but feel that the sequence would be looked on more favourably if the score for the latter half had been original. The Bond theme blasting once Bond regains control of the helicopter is wonderful, though. All in all a very solid effort.


    CR
    This is a subjective list, so one might be surprised to see this one so low. But it's a fantastic sequence, and a perfect introduction to Craig's Bond. I personally prefer the action-packed pre-title sequences, which is why this isn't my all time favorite, although it's certainly one of the best.

    DAD
    This one's pretty stupid, but extremely entertaining and features some of Arnold's best tunes. Brosnan is at his best throughout this whole sequence, particularily once he gets captured. The hovercraft chase is well done despite some very pedestrian effects (Bond diving from Moon's flame-thower, anyone?).
  • Posts: 15,327
    Interesting to see so many different opinions here!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,360
    1) CR

    Simple, brutal, cool, awesome, EVERYTHING

    2) TWINE

    Best part of that film; combines all the elements that constitute a great Bond film. Too bad the "post-credits" section of the film failed to live up to the expectations established in the PTS.

    3) GE

    Splendid introduction of the new Bond, even if the geography of the location feels impossible to figure out.

    4) QOS

    Used to upset me tremendously; even when high on Red Bull I'd struggle to keep up with who's-doing-what-now? But it has climbed to a better place in my ranking. Kinetic, vibrant... Some lazy shots can be pardoned thanks to how awesome Craig is here. Also, Arnold is on fire!

    5) TND

    Go ahead and tell me I've lost it. This actioner is good stuff. Arnold's first steps in Bond scoring left quite an impression. Too bad the (sound) editor made a cringe-worthy mistake! When Bond glides under one of those planes and Arnold's TND 'leitmotif' blasts open (on the soundtrack CD), we cut to a boring screen in MI6 HQ and the music gets pushed 60 decibels to the background. Why? Don't do that when cool stuff is happening. We really don't care about Robinson and others at that moment.

    6) SP

    Stylish, well-paced, spectacular; segues nicely into the opening credits. That's the good part. But that bloody title card right after the gun barrel gets on my nerves every time. Too bad, because SP is Craig's second best Bond film in my opinion, ranking firmly in my top 10.

    7) DAD

    Not bad but not exactly good either. Opens promising, but the hovercraft fight, while original for sure, is narratively empty and just boring overall. Bond shoots, the others shoot, then Bond shoots again, then the others shoot again, ... Some cool moments are there for sure, but they can't rescue me from the orchestral confusion Arnold's treating me to. That thing he was so proud of, you know, recording his score "in reverse" to then flip it again so that it sounds like... Look, I'm not going to try to figure out what he was trying to do there, but his "techno Bond" sounded like a lot of noise coming from strings and wind instruments being lewinskied like it's nobody's business.

    8) SF

    Still a tough one for me to wrap my mind around. "Wait, what?" is a sentiment I silently voiced about 5 times when watching the film the first time. We alternate between cool moments and weird moments, between cinematographic genius and musical awkwardness, between formula and anti-formula. And no matter how often I've seen the film, and enjoyed it, by now, it remains for me a head-spinning trip. Not bad, but right now, my least favourite of this bunch.

    Ask me again tomorrow, and everything other than 1, 2 and 3 can be different.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,853
    1. TWINE
    2. TND
    3. GE
    4. SP
    5. DAD
    6. CR
    7. SF
    8. QOS
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,691
    1.) CR
    2.) GE
    3.) QOS
    4.) SF
    5.) SP
    6.) TWINE
    7.) TND
    8.) DAD
  • 1.CR
    2.GE
    3.TWINE
    4.DAD
    5.TND
    6.SP
    7.QOS
    8.SF
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    edited October 2018 Posts: 952
    CR. Perfect re-introduction to Bond. Established the toughness of the new actor/character.

    GE. A great little mini movie, and what a remarkable stunt to start it off. The only thing that stops this from being number one for me, is the nonsense with the plane at the end.

    SP. The old 'piss filter' not withstanding, this was excellent. Shame the film peaked in the first 5 mins...

    TND. Another excellent entry. My only issue is the constant flicking back and forth to the MI6 'situation room'.

    TWINE. Terrific action, but it is just too bloody long.

    DAD. Some dodgy CGI already, but a nice establishment of the mutual disdain between Bond and Moon. Unnecessary comedy at the end, too.

    QOS. On paper it probably sounded amazing, but the problem of the editing becomes a factor early in QOS. Visceral, but too many close ups of Bond's face and choppy cutting for my taste. A couple of wider shots and longer takes, and this probably would have jumped up my list a few places.

    SF. One of the weaker entries in the whole series, opening sequence wise. Great ending, but the build up can't match it.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,367
    Tomorrow Never Dies Never realised this one was my favourite from the last 8. Love the tension, with the rocket on its way to destroy the arms market, and Bond having minutes to get the warheads out.
    Spectre Surprised so many consider this the worst. I like it best of all the Craigs. Visually interesting, exciting, terrific stunt work
    GoldenEye. Still something of a high point for Brosnan cramming so many Bondian moments into this mini-movie.
    Skyfall.
    Casino Royale. Atmospheric intro for the Craig era. Low key for once, so very effective for that reason alone.
    Quantum Of Solace.
    The World Is Not Enough. Never a great fan of the Thames chase. And the PTS as a whole is simply overlong.
    Die Another Day Last place, but it's a tough old category, with no duds at all. Something of a combo of the previous 3 with the usual machine guns, vehicle pursuit, explosions etc
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken I'm gonna use this to clarify that Dalton is tied with Craig
    edited October 2018 Posts: 1,717
    1: Casino Royale

    This isn't just the best Bond opening. This is probably one of the best openings to any film, ever. Between the ballsiness of not having a gunbarrel, the black and white, the brutal fisticuffs, the beautiful moment that gunbarrel suddenly DOES happen, even just the tension in Dryden's office, that very first line of the film... if you weren't absolutely sold on Craig in these first few minutes then nothing could ever do it. Cinema on a level Bond has never reached before or since.

    2: Skyfall

    Despite clocking in less than a minute short of TWINE, it never suffers from the fatigue because we're only watching one sequence the whole time. Mendes' analogy that this scene is like a Babushka doll is apt. It reveals itself layer by layer, you open it up and then something new is hidden inside. Pure adrenaline, and Deakins' shot work is flawless from beginning to end. A very close second or third for the whole series, depending on where I'd rank TLD's PTS.

    3: GoldenEye

    The plane "stunt" definitely results in a docking from me. Too OTT. The toilet joke is a bit meh as well. But the dam bungee jump is still exhilarating after the hundreds of times I've seen it. I love the banter between Bond and Alec, I love the plot setup, and I love all the other action. And that score! Bond was brought into the 21st century... in 1995!

    4: SPECTRE

    It is so oddly yellow. And the helicopter fight does kind of dull out. But there's everything else. Humour, action, death, sex, cool, badass... BOND! And, yeah, even with the disguised cuts, that oner is really, really amazing. Incredible.

    5: The World is Not Enough

    Because it's two (really, three) completely different scenes in two different cities, even though it's only a minute longer than Skyfall it suffers from heavy fatigue as a result. You really feel the length. Still damned impressive though. Some fantastic shots in this and Brosnan's performance peaks during this PTS precisely. Just a bit tiring after all these years.

    6: Tomorrow Never Dies

    It's exciting and tense and cool, but also so generic action movie-like as well. Too much dakka. It had shown its' age by the five-year mark; we're at the 21 year mark now! Brosnan gets a hell of a first line though.

    7: Die Another Day

    The surfing is cool until you think about the fact that they must have surfed from Japan or something. Mr. Diamond Inspector just freely examining the diamonds while shit is exploding around him has led me to joke for years that he got killed standing by a piece of shrapnel and that's why he seems to not care. Some of the cutting is bad and I don't like the colour palette. Also that shot of Brosnan diving from the flamethrower and the obvious model shot of the hovercraft going over the cliff are both hilarious. Fun, but has aged badly as well.

    8: Quantum of Solace

    I've quite famously warmed to QoS quite a lot, but I have not warmed to this PTS at all. Craig is cool as always but it's an incoherent mess. "Gunshot fire." A few moments of danger and fun and tension, but nothing overwhelmingly great. This could have been #7 with all that, but there's no excuse for the absent gunbarrel. That takes off all of the remaining chance for this to not be at the bottom.
  • Posts: 5,752
    I didn't realize that SF's PTS was only a minute shorter than TWINE's... Wow, one felt overly long and dragged on when it should have been over, and the other zips by... SF once again proves to be quite a magnificently produced Bond film.
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