Music Composers you would like to see score a Bond film

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  • edited April 2018 Posts: 684
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Absolutely. Barry underwent a general change of style during the 70s. In my opinion, in Bond, the first clear step of that transition was in TMWTGG, followed by MR and culminating in OP, after which his Bond scores had a similar sound, certain instruments aside (electric guitars in AVTAK, drum machine in TLD).
    Next time I watch and/or listen to TMWTGG I'm going to have to pay more attention. I'd always pegged Barry's transition as beginning with MR. Hearing the score in my head I can how see you're correct, though.
    This was probably not only related to the evolution of Barry's own compositional style, but also to changing trends in film music, considering that Star Wars had brought back the symphonic film score in full force after some years of it having been out of fashion.
    Question @mattjoes — does Barry deserve more credit for keeping the door open for Williams? He was doing orchestral stuff on a blockbusting franchise before Spielberg and Lucas 'invented' the blockbuster franchise. I mean, I get that the success of STAR WARS directly led to a revival in that type of score. I guess I'm wondering how much Bond led to it indirectly. Spielberg and Lucas were certainly influenced by the franchise. Was Williams looking at Barry? I haven't found much on the subject.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I discovered this truly sublime and sensuous track while viewing Sexy Beast. 1961's Lujon by the late great Henry Mancini. It reminds me of some of Barry's earlier compositions for Bond, which drew heavily on light jazz - particularly his work on TB.

    I'd really love to see someone with a jazz touch do the Bond score once there is an eventual recast with a new actor.

    I think they'd bring something fresh to the Bond sound. Quincy Jones as an example infused Michael Jackson's Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad albums with something special from the jazz environment, and as this is my favourite musical genre I'd appreciate seeing it back as an influence for Bond.

    I'd too like to see jazz return to Bond more prominently. In his Bond scores, Barry drifted away from it and into a more symphonic style, but there's nothing that would prevent a future composer from going back. My favorite track in the Skyfall soundtrack happens to be Old Dog, New Tricks, the one that most approaches that sensual sound of the early Bond scores.

    Absolutely lovely piece by Mancini, the one you posted. Love the melody that opens the theme and is then heard throughout, played by marimba and bass. The string melody is also enchanting in those big leaps it takes.

    Speaking of Mancini, this is one of my favorites by him. At 1:16, the combination of glockenspiel and zither playing on different octaves is exquisite.

    That's a great track you posted. Some French influences can be heard (I'm not musically trained and so can't normally properly describe what I'm hearing). Those instruments you mentioned sort of have a twangy cimbalon quality to them, which is also something we got from early Barry (Ipcress File). Lujon (the Mancini track I posted earlier) reminds me a little of the glorious Cafe Martinique from the TB soundtrack.
    Absolutely. Both Café Martinique and Lujon have a certain elegance and exuberance to their melodies. Both are also in minor mode, which contributes to that feeling of opulence they evoke.

    The cimbalom --a form of zither-- was also used by Barry in the theme of The Persuaders. He did several pieces in the seventies with a similar sound: the themes of The Adventurer and Orson Welles' Great Mysteries, as well as arrangements of This Way Mary (from Mary Queen of Scots), We Have All the Time in the World and Diamonds Are Forever.

    Presumably, Mancini also used a cimbalom for the title theme of Charade. I'm not sure I hear it, myself-- only the electric guitar, though it's possible and logical they blend together all too well.
    Well put and thanks for mentioning those other films, the scores for which I must check out. I can't say I've heard the cimbalon in Charade's theme either. I'm due a rewatch soon and will keep an ear out for it.

    Elegant, exuberant and opulent are precisely how I view Cafe Martinique and Lujon as well. Unbelievably romantic and calming too.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    You're right about Barry going for a more sweeping and symphonic sound with his later Bond scores. I always thought that was partly because he was mirroring Roger's aging, but then realized it was apparent in his later non-Bond scores as well. So it must have been because Barry himself was aging.
    Absolutely. Barry underwent a general change of style during the 70s. In my opinion, in Bond, the first clear step of that transition was in TMWTGG, followed by MR and culminating in OP, after which his Bond scores had a similar sound, certain instruments aside (electric guitars in AVTAK, drum machine in TLD). There was a certain frenzyness to Barry's brass passages that he started to abandon in the 70s, replacing it with a more stately sound. This was probably not only related to the evolution of Barry's own compositional style, but also to changing trends in film music, considering that Star Wars had brought back the symphonic film score in full force after some years of it having been out of fashion. From what I've heard, the last Barry score in his old style may have been for 1978's Game of Death, with its brassy, energetic main theme.
    I'd say TMWTGG was a transitional score. One can see that he's experimenting with a new approach but there's still that staccato like twang to the brass from his earlier work (so it has a bit of the old and the new to it). I remember reading that the score was very rushed and he didn't have time to refine some of his themes. I've always felt that the main OP action score borrows a little from TMWTGG and wonder if Barry had unfinished ideas that he tapped into for the later film. Like @Strog, I personally think MR is when we hear the new approach to his compositions, with that far more sweeping and symphonic sound that you referred to earlier.

    You've put it perfectly by suggesting that his earlier scores had a more frenzied approach to the brass, in comparison to the more "stately" later compositions. That's precisely what I hear too. The 'frenzy' is what I love about his earlier sound. It's almost like a jazz master improvising and 'ad libbing'. Almost jamming.

    I saw Game of Death as a kid and can't remember much about it (except Lee in that famous yellow outfit while confronting Kareem Abdul Jabar). I will seek it out for another viewing, perhaps in combination with Enter The Dragon.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The reason I'd rather they incorporate that light jazz quality with a recast is because I think it better suits a younger actor. Here's hoping they hear us.
    I would add that it can convey a sense of elegant playfulness that suits cinematic Bond very well.
    Once again, perfectly put. That's exactly the same way I feel as well. That sound is perfect for Bond.
  • Posts: 4,023
    Didn’t Barry do a fair amount of symphonic stuff in YOLT?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,026
    vzok wrote: »
    Didn’t Barry do a fair amount of symphonic stuff in YOLT?

    He did a reasonably large chunk of symphonic stuff that was appropriate for the epic scope but there was still a noticeable presence of his erratic, frenzied style from the earlier films there. This was mostly to establish mood. It's not as obviously atmospheric (compared to say, FRWL) thanks to the Eastern influences he infused the score with. He would further balance these approaches in OHMSS but that had a more intrusive but no less masterful electronic element to it. You can hear him growing as a musician over time, which is very interesting to listen to.

    It's also notable that the more sweeping style Barry adopted in the mid to late 70s would stay with him until the end of his career and ultimately be the reason why he didn't score as many films towards the end of it. That style, by the mid to late 90s, wasn't the most popular anymore.
  • Posts: 6,710
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Love the melody that opens the theme and is then heard throughout, played by marimba and bass.
    I must rectify this. The combination of "marimba and bass" I alluded to in Lujon is in fact an instrument called lujon. I wasn't familiar with it. It does sound like a bassier marimba.



    Strog wrote: »
    This was probably not only related to the evolution of Barry's own compositional style, but also to changing trends in film music, considering that Star Wars had brought back the symphonic film score in full force after some years of it having been out of fashion.
    Question @mattjoes — does Barry deserve more credit for keeping the door open for Williams? He was doing orchestral stuff on a blockbusting franchise before Spielberg and Lucas 'invented' the blockbuster franchise. I mean, I get that the success of STAR WARS directly led to a revival in that type of score. I guess I'm wondering how much Bond led to it indirectly. Spielberg and Lucas were certainly influenced by the franchise. Was Williams looking at Barry? I haven't found much on the subject.
    @Strog , I don't get a strong impression that Williams was looking at Barry. It's clear that among Williams' musical sensibilities was an interest in orchestral music (as well as jazz). That naturally led to his scoring event films such as The Poseidon Adventure and Star Wars with an orchestral sound, a sound that at any rate was associated with those types of films way before Bond and Barry. While in the seventies, several prominent composers --people like Quincy Jones, Lalo Schifrin and Jerry Fielding-- scored films in a non-orchestral style, orchestral music was certainly still present to a degree. As for Barry, he was of course a very popular composer during both the sixties and seventies, and during the latter decade he scored King Kong, a big film which was highly anticipated and which had an orchestral sound. Barry also scored The Deep, after John Williams turned it down for whatever reason. So, while I don't particularly think Barry influenced Williams, he did contribute to keeping an orchestral style alive during those times.

    bondjames wrote: »
    One can see that he's experimenting with a new approach but there's still that staccato like twang to the brass from his earlier work (so it has a bit of the old and the new to it). I remember reading that the score was very rushed and he didn't have time to refine some of his themes. I've always felt that the main OP action score borrows a little from TMWTGG and wonder if Barry had unfinished ideas that he tapped into for the later film.
    TMWTGG was composed in three weeks, I believe. I don't know if Barry felt he needed more time to work on the score, but it would make sense given the rushed schedule. Having said that, he stated he thought his score was "very good."

    I see a similarity between the TMWTGG theme and the OP action theme in the use of staccato brass, and high woodwinds to play the melody, though I get different vibes from the themes. TMWTGG is less suspenseful and more adventuresque than the OP action theme.

    vzok wrote: »
    Didn’t Barry do a fair amount of symphonic stuff in YOLT?
    Yes. However, the overall "vibe" of the score is in my opinion more jazzy than symphonic, and as @CraigMooreOHMSS says, it has plenty of frenetic brass (in the Stan Kenton style which inspired Barry in those early works). The OHMSS score continues that brassy style, though it also flirts with a more symphonic sound in Journey to Blofeld's Hideaway. DAF is clearly a very loungey score. I think Barry didn't start progressing in a definitive way toward a symphonic sound until TMWTGG.

    Speaking of YOLT, compare it with MR: The latter makes significantly wider, more detailed use of the whole range of orchestral sounds, with more elaborate instrumentation, whereas YOLT is a bit more simple and sparse in its arrangements. Also, by the time of MR, Barry was making his compositions a bit more complex, and using less repetition. This is consistent with the nature of a symphony, given its length and the opportunity said length provides to develop musical ideas extensively.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 231
    When I think jazz I get a Michael Legrand hangover... :) But yeah, some sexy sultry jazzy would be great. I think Christopher Young would excel at this - I rather like his jazzy score to the man who knew too little:
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 684
    mattjoes wrote: »
    @Strog , I don't get a strong impression that Williams was looking at Barry. It's clear that among Williams' musical sensibilities was an interest in orchestral music (as well as jazz). That naturally led to his scoring event films such as The Poseidon Adventure and Star Wars with an orchestral sound, a sound that at any rate was associated with those types of films way before Bond and Barry. While in the seventies, several prominent composers --people like Quincy Jones, Lalo Schifrin and Jerry Fielding-- scored films in a non-orchestral style, orchestral music was certainly still present to a degree. As for Barry, he was of course a very popular composer during both the sixties and seventies, and during the latter decade he scored King Kong, a big film which was highly anticipated and which had an orchestral sound. Barry also scored The Deep, after John Williams turned it down for whatever reason. So, while I don't particularly think Barry influenced Williams, he did contribute to keeping an orchestral style alive during those times.
    I figured that was the extent of it. I've always been curious what the two men thought of the one another's work.

  • Posts: 6,710
    Strog wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    @Strog , I don't get a strong impression that Williams was looking at Barry. It's clear that among Williams' musical sensibilities was an interest in orchestral music (as well as jazz). That naturally led to his scoring event films such as The Poseidon Adventure and Star Wars with an orchestral sound, a sound that at any rate was associated with those types of films way before Bond and Barry. While in the seventies, several prominent composers --people like Quincy Jones, Lalo Schifrin and Jerry Fielding-- scored films in a non-orchestral style, orchestral music was certainly still present to a degree. As for Barry, he was of course a very popular composer during both the sixties and seventies, and during the latter decade he scored King Kong, a big film which was highly anticipated and which had an orchestral sound. Barry also scored The Deep, after John Williams turned it down for whatever reason. So, while I don't particularly think Barry influenced Williams, he did contribute to keeping an orchestral style alive during those times.
    I figured that was the extent of it. I've always been curious what the two men thought of the one another's work.
    There was an interview in which Barry explained he sometimes got together with "Jerry (Goldsmith) and Johnny (Williams)." I'm sure there was professional respect and appreciation between them, though it'd be interesting to know more.
  • I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned him—hard to imagine someone hasn't—but John Murphy was Danny Boyle's go-to guy back in the day. He's done some incredible scores for the likes of 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later, Sunshine, and more. There is such tremendous "dark beauty" in his music and he produces some really cool beats with his electronics. As much as I want David Arnold back (and I'm sure he will return some day), it would be awesome to get a John Murphy James Bond score.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 5,767
    Brian Tyler. Show me a better contemporary film composer. This is from his latest film, a romantic comedy. The jazz part as well as the romantic part both wipe the floor with any competition:

  • Posts: 4,023
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Brian Tyler. Show me a better contemporary film composer. This is from his latest film, a romantic comedy. The jazz part as well as the romantic part both wipe the floor with any competition:


    Plus he has history in getting rerecording a classic theme right.

  • Posts: 5,800
    I've said it before, and I say it again, on the strength of his work on The Incredibles and The Incredibles 2, Michael Giacchino should do the music for the next James Bond movies. Here's a very Bondian track :

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I was just going to say that those compositions by Brian Tyler very much remind me of Giacchino's score for the Incredibles, which itself was inspired by 60's Barry. Breezy.

    I've mentioned this before, but I really feel it's time for the jazz influence to make its way back into Bond. Barry abandoned it in the early 70's (I think TMWTGG was the last film to have that influence) and I think it really defined some of the best and most memorable hooks of the past (including Lalo Schifrin's famous MI tune).

    I think jazz just really suits the Bond world.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2018 Posts: 3,157
    That Incredibles track truly sounds like something Barry would have written for a Bond movie!

  • Posts: 5,767
    Giacchino can be very good, and I admit that at least The Incredibles 1 is one of his few scores that doesn´t loose ist grip throughout.
    Still, he´s not on the level Tyler.
  • Posts: 501
    Tyler is not, IMHO, among the best current composers. People like Pemberton, Marianelli, Desplat, and so on are far better.

    I've already stated that I'd like to give Murray Gold an opportunity. Or, Joe Kraemer. He's not as famous as others, not as popular, but I've loved everything he's done so far. Plus, he's shown that he can take an iconic theme an make it work.



  • Posts: 5,800
    I second Murray Gold.
  • Posts: 5,767
    0iker0 wrote: »
    Tyler is not, IMHO, among the best current composers. People like Pemberton, Marianelli, Desplat, and so on are far better.
    None of those has ever produced any decent action cues. Tyler on the other hand can also do quieter pieces.

  • Posts: 4,023
    Gerard wrote: »
    I second Murray Gold.

    OK, I've gone back in timey wimey and listened to this



    and I'm not getting Bond at all from it. Any got examples of any other tracks he's done that are Bond friendly?

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    Try this.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 5,767
    vzok wrote: »
    Gerard wrote: »
    I second Murray Gold.

    OK, I've gone back in timey wimey and listened to this



    and I'm not getting Bond at all from it. Any got examples of any other tracks he's done that are Bond friendly?
    It certainly got the intensity needed for Bond. And the whackiness would suit Bond fine, if applied properly. And it´s not convoluted to death like the Zimmer-infected latest efforts.
    I approve.



    Murdock wrote: »
    Try this.
    Oh yes please!
  • Posts: 4,023
    Preferred that second video, but there is something very busy and loud about Murray Gold. The Joe Kraemer stuff up the page was more suitable for Bond for me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    vzok wrote: »
    Preferred that second video, but there is something very busy and loud about Murray Gold. The Joe Kraemer stuff up the page was more suitable for Bond for me.
    I agree. For some reason he reminds me of Brosnan era Arnold. A bit too drummy and frenetic for my tastes.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Kramer doesn´t really know what he´s doing. When I listen to him, I sooner or later drift off.
  • Posts: 4,023
    bondjames wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    Preferred that second video, but there is something very busy and loud about Murray Gold. The Joe Kraemer stuff up the page was more suitable for Bond for me.
    I agree. For some reason he reminds me of Brosnan era Arnold. A bit too drummy and frenetic for my tastes.

    I liked a fair bit of David Arnold’s tracks, but like the Brosnan movies he got noisy in the finales.
  • Posts: 501
    boldfinger wrote: »
    0iker0 wrote: »
    Tyler is not, IMHO, among the best current composers. People like Pemberton, Marianelli, Desplat, and so on are far better.
    None of those has ever produced any decent action cues. Tyler on the other hand can also do quieter pieces.

    You're right, no good action pieces…

    Desplat




    Marianelli


    Pemberton



    Tell me more…

    Regarding Gold, I keep insisting: the last minute or so of this track would fit a bond flick like a glove

  • Posts: 5,767
    As brilliant as Desplat can be with quieter tracks, as lost does he seem with action cues. The only halfway decent music he did in that direction was for Godzilla.

    Pemberton has brilliant ideas, but has yet to produce a whole score that is at least interesting and does not fall asleep throughout.

    A few good ideas or tracks do not make a good composer. But unfortunately it has become common that a film soundtrack contains a few good tracks and a lot of garbage.
  • Posts: 501
    boldfinger wrote: »
    As brilliant as Desplat can be with quieter tracks, as lost does he seem with action cues. The only halfway decent music he did in that direction was for Godzilla.

    Pemberton has brilliant ideas but has yet to produce a whole score that is at least interesting and does not fall asleep throughout.

    A few good ideas or tracks do not make a good composer. But unfortunately it has become common that a film soundtrack contains a few good tracks and a lot of garbage.

    That last bit, the bit that I just bolded is my problem with Brian Tyler precisely. I find that he has a something to create main themes or specifical tracks, but then he can't back it up. I like his Iron Man theme, for instance, but I don't like the entirety of his score for the film. (I love his F1 theme, despite not being love at first sight)

    Desplat is brilliant at everything he does. Not only quieter bits. The action pieces for Valerian, Monument's Men (the finale), Deadly Hallows part 2 (the magnificent Statues), The Ghost Writer (chase on the Ferry is a fine chase track) are pretty damn good if you ask me.

    Regarding Pemberton, he certainly has ideas. And I don't like all of them, I didn't like his score for King Arthur for instance. But, he is capable of bringing good action cues and substance together. He did that with UNCLE, he did that with Ocean's 8 (not brilliant, but still a good jazzy score, respecting the franchise's style).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Pemberton s score for THE MAN FROM UNCLE made me champion him for Bond. He has that 60s vibe that is appropriate. Giacchino is another who does that well.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,026
    Tyler was one of the freshest composers around, and was one of those guys whose music was far too good for the respective films he was scoring.

    That seems to have levelled out lately, though. The only thing I really enjoyed from him in the last couple of years was THE MUMMY. His other action efforts are often drowned in dubstep textures and manipulated electronic sound effects, e.g. CRIMINAL, NOW YOU SEE ME. This is on account of his experimentation under his other alias, Madsonik. The lines between the two are sometimes blurred.

    His work from Frailty all the way up, to say, Fast Five, is ace. Iron Man 3 is also pretty great. I'd be happy to hear what he could do for Bond if he reined in those recent stylistic traits.
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