No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.

    True to an extent. But Paul Haggis (at the time of CR) was a big name.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm not sure I agree on the relative importance of script writer vs. director. I think the director can make magic out of a substandard script but perhaps it doesn't work the other way around. After all, it's the director's job to get the best out of the actors, and that is a fundamental component of how we experience a film. It's a visual medium.

    It's quite different with a novel of course, where everything is just read on the written page.
  • Posts: 5,767
    patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.
    When I think about that... No. My main problem with both SF and SP is Mendes. His style simply doesn´t resonate with me.
    A fitting director will manipulate the audience in a positive manner to overlook script weaknesses. A good script is not worth much if the director doesn´t know what he´s doing. As Cubby said: The film has to be so tight that the audience doesn´t think at all about analizing plot holes and the like.
    I think a lot of drama is theoretically possible if the film as a whole is handled properly.

  • patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.

    I absolutely agree with you.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don’t really believe any of these rumours but if Boyle wants to do an original story he’s developed with Hodge then that could mean a break from the overwrought continuity of SP, which seems to be what everyone wants.

    Soft continuity in the old style would be a nice way for Craig to finish IMO.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/02/22/bond-25-may-have-director-danny-boyle-trainspotting-writer-john/amp/

    Prioritise plot over continuity, which is what they should have done with SP.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don’t really believe any of these rumours but if Boyle wants to do an original story he’s developed with Hodge then that could mean a break from the overwrought continuity of SP, which seems to be what everyone wants.

    Soft continuity in the old style would be a nice way for Craig to finish IMO.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/02/22/bond-25-may-have-director-danny-boyle-trainspotting-writer-john/amp/

    Prioritise plot over continuity, which is what they should have done with SP.

    This looks promising...fingers crossed.
  • Posts: 4,602
    In an ideal world, we need both to be good but one comes before the other. It's not just Bond. Many Directors are almost household names but writers seem to be very low key.

    Open to be pointed towards examples of where a good director has produced a good movie from a poor script. Poor characters, poor themes, poor plot, poor sub plot, poor dialogue, poor tone, poor pacing etc. How does a Director deal with those and produce something decent? I don't think you can.

    Replace "poor" with "fantastic" and a jouneyman Director will produce something watchable IMHO.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    I had assumed they just had more in place than we realized, but now I'm starting to think that isn't the case. Would be funny if they announced a date two years out and somehow manage to miss it.
  • Posts: 12,506
    Well I think we wait until like a few others on here have said? Let's get the Oscars out of the way first and then hopefully something will be announced not too long after that?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    In an ideal world, we need both to be good but one comes before the other. It's not just Bond. Many Directors are almost household names but writers seem to be very low key.

    Open to be pointed towards examples of where a good director has produced a good movie from a poor script. Poor characters, poor themes, poor plot, poor sub plot, poor dialogue, poor tone, poor pacing etc. How does a Director deal with those and produce something decent? I don't think you can.

    Replace "poor" with "fantastic" and a jouneyman Director will produce something watchable IMHO.

    But then this comes back to the issue that most people here seem unable to grasp. There’s no such thing as being given a ‘script’, that the director then goes and works from and everything is hunky-dory.

    Because so much is at stake with these movies, there’s a deluge of input from all angles, everyone scrambling to have their say and put their small stamp on proceedings.

    A writer will generally offer a piece of work that strives to maintain consistency of tone, that is internally logical, that develops character... the director, execs, even financiers step in and have their say and you’re then essentially playing Jenga. Once you start adjusting, removing, reworking it becomes a seriously tricky task to keep the tower stable.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    I had assumed they just had more in place than we realized, but now I'm starting to think that isn't the case. Would be funny if they announced a date two years out and somehow manage to miss it.
    They were just locking their spot in the release window and sending a signal to competitors. There's no doubt in my mind that they want to meet that deadline, but the way in which they appear to be going about it is haphazard and not very methodical. From what I've read, these Bond films really do leave it down to the wire and this doesn't seem to be any different (it certainly doesn't seem to be a CR/SF type scenario).

    It doesn't bode well if they don't a director yet because it suggests things could be rushed, and we know the worst films come out of that. Keep in mind that they have to lock down premium (and in demand) cast too.
  • I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).
  • Posts: 727
    I wanna see a Bond film with him sitting at a dinner table and talking about wine again. These sorts of scenes have been achingly lacking.
  • Posts: 1,031
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don’t really believe any of these rumours but if Boyle wants to do an original story he’s developed with Hodge then that could mean a break from the overwrought continuity of SP, which seems to be what everyone wants.

    Soft continuity in the old style would be a nice way for Craig to finish IMO.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/02/22/bond-25-may-have-director-danny-boyle-trainspotting-writer-john/amp/

    Prioritise plot over continuity, which is what they should have done with SP.

    Interesting, wasn't there some rumour a while ago that there was another script in the offing other than P&W's that they may go in favour of? Maybe P&W are out of the picture.
  • Posts: 1,031
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dennison wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don’t really believe any of these rumours but if Boyle wants to do an original story he’s developed with Hodge then that could mean a break from the overwrought continuity of SP, which seems to be what everyone wants.

    Soft continuity in the old style would be a nice way for Craig to finish IMO.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/02/22/bond-25-may-have-director-danny-boyle-trainspotting-writer-john/amp/

    Prioritise plot over continuity, which is what they should have done with SP.

    Interesting, wasn't there some rumour a while ago that there was another script in the offing other than P&W's that they may go in favour of? Maybe P&W are out of the picture.
    Yes, but that was the now debunked Nolan script. So not sure what to make of this rumour now.
  • Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    They’re constantly developing scripts. I don’t think anyone need get too worried at this stage.
    Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.

    Another example of the complexity of the process. Accommodating creative egos is something of a challenge.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    RC7 wrote: »
    They’re constantly developing scripts. I don’t think anyone need get too worried at this stage.
    Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.

    Another example of the complexity of the process. Accommodating creative egos is something of a challenge.

    I don't blame Forster. I remember reading that because of the writer's strike, they had to go back to much of the previous script. Forster did not want a sequel to CR; but it ended up being so. Because they had a mish-mash of two scripts, he and DC were revising the story and script as they went along. No writers were allowed to do it.

    Given the issues they had with QoS, it's quite an accomplishment that Forster was able to pull off what he did. My ONLY beef with the (re)writing was the plane scene with Bond and Camille which really, really needed to breathe. Their conversation was going somewhere and than WHAM! here come bullets and the fighter planes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    TripAces wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They’re constantly developing scripts. I don’t think anyone need get too worried at this stage.
    Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.

    Another example of the complexity of the process. Accommodating creative egos is something of a challenge.

    I don't blame Forster. I remember reading that because of the writer's strike, they had to go back to much of the previous script. Forster did not want a sequel to CR; but it ended up being so. Because they had a mish-mash of two scripts, he and DC were revising the story and script as they went along. No writers were allowed to do it.

    Given the issues they had with QoS, it's quite an accomplishment that Forster was able to pull off what he did. My ONLY beef with the (re)writing was the plane scene with Bond and Camille which really, really needed to breathe. Their conversation was going somewhere and than WHAM! here come bullets and the fighter planes.

    My point wasn’t to apportion blame, but to highlight the fact the process can become protracted when egos clash. The power shift from Producer to Director has changed the way these films are made.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I wonder if delays and issues with Rhythm Section are impacting anything here, in terms of apparently not wanting to go with Demange.

    The producers are going to have their hands full over the next set of months, and they probably need someone with experience making a large scale film.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 2,115
    TripAces wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They’re constantly developing scripts. I don’t think anyone need get too worried at this stage.
    Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.

    Another example of the complexity of the process. Accommodating creative egos is something of a challenge.

    I don't blame Forster. I remember reading that because of the writer's strike, they had to go back to much of the previous script. Forster did not want a sequel to CR; but it ended up being so. Because they had a mish-mash of two scripts, he and DC were revising the story and script as they went along. No writers were allowed to do it.

    Given the issues they had with QoS, it's quite an accomplishment that Forster was able to pull off what he did. My ONLY beef with the (re)writing was the plane scene with Bond and Camille which really, really needed to breathe. Their conversation was going somewhere and than WHAM! here come bullets and the fighter planes.

    There were at least three separate stories: 1) Whatever P&W put together 2) Bond looks for Vesper's kid (rejected) 3) The script we got.

    Also, once the strike was over (and it didn't last the entire production), Joshua Zetumer was brought on to do polishes. Stories written *during production* mention him, including this website, MI6. But he's been forgotten because the "Forster and Craig had to rewrite the movie themselves" narrative took hold from 2011 onwards.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    2) Bond looks for Vesper's kid
    Madness.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 15,826
    Bond looks for Vesper's kid. Hmmm. Glad they scrapped that idea. I don't want kids in a Bond film unless they're being pushed off a boat into a river.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    One of the first drafts had M die in the third act.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    bondjames wrote: »
    2) Bond looks for Vesper's kid
    Madness.

    DimwittedBareBabirusa-max-1mb.gif
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    2) Bond looks for Vesper's kid
    Madness.

    DimwittedBareBabirusa-max-1mb.gif
    Sparta level.
  • Posts: 9,779
    Jake update
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Jake update

    Here it is called an upjake.
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