Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • I agree Arnold is Barry's modern day continuation. No one else has captured the Bond sound as faithfully or as perfectly as Arnold. Yet his scores are very modern and still very much in his own style. Arnold has come up with some fantastic Bondian themes: Surrender, TWINE, DAD's main action theme, YKMN, the Quantum theme. But up against Barry's masterpieces like YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, MR, AVTAK, etc., I'd say Arnold has a ways to go to be put on an even pedestal. Even then, he may never get there. But that's okay. He's the best that isn't Barry. As you say, he's the perfect "modern day continuation." One more reason these Mendes/Newman efforts are so painful to wait out.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Just enjoying Hamlisch's superb score while viewing TSWLM for the 40th as I type this. Couldn't disagree more. Much preferred all the one offs and hope we have the privilege of someone new for the next one. He can stick to whatever he's doing these days.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,204
    I only like Arnold from CR onwards. I don't know what he was thinking before, but it wasn't good in my ears. I was hoping for him to step down after DAD, now I don't care much. he's had his run, nd though Newman has some way to go, his start is better then Arnold's.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I only like Arnold from CR onwards. I don't know what he was thinking before, but it wasn't good in my ears. I was hoping for him to step down after DAD, now I don't care much. he's had his run, nd though Newman has some way to go, his start is better then Arnold's.
    I'm completely in agreement with you.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Newman is a better composer than Arnold in my book, but his stubborn refusal to include the title song and lazy reuse of old tracks, doesn't make him a good choice for Bond. I think Arnold's work on CR was excellent - funny actually how everyone seemed to bring their a game for that one film. Apart from that I don't care much for his work at all.

    I have a dream of ones seeing å John Williams score for Bond. It might have been overkill, but it would be so much fun!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I think some of you need this. ;)
    0370011.jpg
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    tumblr_o46d1mRgPR1uiohk2o3_250.gif
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,264
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I guess my controversial opinion, as recently explained in another thread, is that

    A) SP, for me, is the second best of Craig's Bonds, behind CR, leaving the universally worshipped SF far behind it.

    B) Newman's score for SP is not just good but great.

    There, I said it.

    I'm not sure I agree but I prefer watching SP to SF. I wonder of your reasons though.

    @Ludovico
    SP, to me at least, feels more like a Bond film than SF. Also, and I know this is a weak and highly subjective argument, I like the reveal of Spectre as the sinister cabal behind Quantum. It's more or less what I had been dreaming about between '08 and '15. Furthermore, SF's theme about Bond being possibly too old for the job, especially after sustaining his injuries, comes far too fast in the Craig era. He was just beginning in CR and QOS, why suggest that he might be finished so soon? The climax, while very dramatic and well-made, is based on the fact that Bond has to save 'M' from Silva and therefore takes her to his old house. I neither like it very much when 'M' is so personally involved in a Bond adventure (TWINE, anyone?) nor when we dig too deeply into Bond's past. Don't get me wrong, I have a good time with SF, but SP manages to get me more involved.

    The "l'Americain" and train stuff in SP, for example, beats anything in SF for me. Léa Sédoux, Newman's music when Bond is drunk on the floor or when Madeline walks over to him in that amazing dress, that's the kind of things I enjoy very much. Gives me that sweaty, half-dreamy sensation I also state as a reason for liking Michael Mann's BLACKHAT. I understand it's not the majority vote and I don't mind. ;-) That's also why a confession in this thread seems proper. :)
    jobo wrote: »
    Newman is a better composer than Arnold in my book, but his stubborn refusal to include the title song and lazy reuse of old tracks, doesn't make him a good choice for Bond. I think Arnold's work on CR was excellent - funny actually how everyone seemed to bring their a game for that one film. Apart from that I don't care much for his work at all.

    I have a dream of ones seeing å John Williams score for Bond. It might have been overkill, but it would be so much fun!

    Newman is capable of great scores. But what galled me about SP was the reuse of old tracks as early as the PTS. I don't know if he was bored or overextended or uninspired, but the score came across as lazy. Most composers would give their right arm to score a Bond film. Newman should have stepped aside.
  • Posts: 463
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.
  • Posts: 1,162
    I, for one, absolutely agree
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.
    I agree. His walk is more purposeful here, and a bit fey in the later shoots imho. I like the GE Serra track used in that shot too.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I prefer his Skyfall pose. I just hate the design of the gunbarrel itself. Though this is how all of Craig's should have been.
  • Posts: 7,397
    Excellent Murdock!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I know it's rip SF/SP month, but not a chance. This is the worst in the series. The turn/shot is so wooden. Simply awful.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    His pose in SP is his best, by far. I hate how his SF one just freezes as his left arm is still in the air.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Apart from his turn and fire in CR which is perfect but not a proper GB the rest of his GB poses are awful.

    And when coupled with the GB design of QOS and SF they drop to truly abysmal.

    SP is merely poor which given what went before I considered a good result to be honest. That's how low my GB expectations are these days. I'm more optimistic about England's chances going into a World Cup than I am of getting a good GB in a Bond film.
  • Posts: 16,134
    That's what I find most annoying about the Craig GB's. How difficult is it just to give us a standard traditional GB sequence? Both of the above fan renditions are massively superior to what we actually got in his films. Yet we get this constant tinkering with the design, music, and placement which spoils the moment. I suppose instead of having threads devoted to GB placement speculation in the Craig films, we could just title one : How is the GB going to be screwed up THIS time?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,264
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I think that's Craig's head on Brosnan's body.
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 463
    echo wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I think that's Craig's head on Brosnan's body.

    Brosnan wears a tuxedo in his versuses the business suit Craig wears.
    RC7 wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I know it's rip SF/SP month, but not a chance. This is the worst in the series. The turn/shot is so wooden. Simply awful.

    Please. Don't be so dramatic. Craig showing his pistol during his walk in SP's barrel was just plain sloppy.

    For the record, I never had a problem with the placement of the gunbarrel at the end of Skyfall nor QOS. It's the terrible designs with the bad blood effects I dislike. Why Mendes thought he had to add an unnecessary title card after SP's baffles me. It literally adds nothing to the film.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,747
    I didn't see it that way--the visible firearm is great to me, a show of confidence and that gunbarrel is a favorite. Best of the four.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    The gun barrel shouldn't have been moved around to begin with. All they had to do, was to keep the Brosnan era gun barrel, stick Craig in it, and re-use that for each film, changing only the theme each time.



    That looks as slick today, as it did 20 years ago.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,145
    @jobo
    I hear ya.
    A Williams Bond score would have been pure fun, especially during one of his most creative periods, i.e. the 70s, early 80s. Imagine him pulling a MR, with or without Spielberg for that matter. I'm not saying I would ever replace Barry's divine score for MR but it'd be interesting IMO to hear Williams in his boyishly playful days work with the Bond Theme and bring his own style to the game.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I think that's Craig's head on Brosnan's body.

    Brosnan wears a tuxedo in his versuses the business suit Craig wears.
    RC7 wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    They shouldn't have reshot Craig's gunbarrel after QOS.



    This is way better than what we got in SF or SP.

    I know it's rip SF/SP month, but not a chance. This is the worst in the series. The turn/shot is so wooden. Simply awful.

    Please. Don't be so dramatic. Craig showing his pistol during his walk in SP's barrel was just plain sloppy.

    For the record, I never had a problem with the placement of the gunbarrel at the end of Skyfall nor QOS. It's the terrible designs with the bad blood effects I dislike. Why Mendes thought he had to add an unnecessary title card after SP's baffles me. It literally adds nothing to the film.

    It's garbage, mate. The walk, the packaging, the positioning.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I disagree. The QoS GB is the best turn and shoot he's done outside of the CR toilet one imho. What I like about it best is the speed of the turn and the aim. The one where he's flinging the gun around while walking is awful.

    Having said that, I've always liked Brosnan's walk, turn and shoot best. That's the only area where I felt he surpassed his predecessors and successor.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,101
    bondjames wrote: »
    I disagree. The QoS GB is the best turn and shoot he's done outside of the CR toilet one imho. What I like about it best is the speed of the turn and the aim. The one where he's flinging the gun around while walking is awful.

    Having said that, I've always liked Brosnan's walk, turn and shoot best. That's the only area where I felt he surpassed his predecessors and successor.

    Brosnan's "Bond walk" in general is great. He "moves" like 007 should move.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Yeah, Brosnan's are brilliant. Still think the QoS one sucks. He seems so awkward. Much more relaxed in SP.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I think Craig's SP gunbarrel is his best and an iconic pose. QoS & SF were disappointing in terms of walk and poses......not to mention being at the end of the films!
  • Posts: 1,162
    Personally, I very much dislike the John Wayne pose he's taking in SF and SP as well
  • edited July 2017 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I think Craig's SP gunbarrel is his best and an iconic pose. QoS & SF were disappointing in terms of walk and poses......not to mention being at the end of the films!

    I'm not sure about his SP walk. You can tell they were trying to homage Roger's "patting a small man" pose.

    CR was by far his best pose.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited July 2017 Posts: 1,984
    I liked the SF pose and thought it was his best gunbarrel. He just walked a bit too slowly and the gunbarrel aesthetics weren't very good. And of course it was at the end.

    The SP one has him flaunting his gun about as he walks. The QoS one had him running so fast I thought there was a toilet to the left of the gunbarrel. CR's interesting but again I didn't like the gunbarrel design, and I hated the blood flow.

    Speaking of gunbarrels, this might be a bit controversial — I actually really like Sean Connery's gunbarrel. It looks weird and sloppy but for some reason I like his final stance, and I like it for the fact that it actually looks like he's taken by surprise, then turns and shoots. As opposed to walking to the centre with the intent of turning and shooting.
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