Skyfall would have been a better movie if Pierce was the lead in lieu of Daniel

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Skyfall would have lost some serious emotional weight with Brosnan as Bond, and those kinds of moments are at the heart of the film and make it more exceptional than others; without them, they're be a hollowness. Dan plays those quiet moments beautifully, but I think Pierce would have struggled with the same material because I don't think it's his strong suit. It's also down to the types of Bond movies they made. Pierce was burdened with following tradition and Dan has been free to experiment, with the films suited to him instead of him being a slave to the material like I think Pierce was.

    Overall, I'm happy with how it unfolded. Skyfall is a Daniel Craig film, as it should be.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    A classically trained actor close to Flemings character. No chance. Dalton is never inferior to Brosnan.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    Holy Christ, that made my mouth slam to the floor. Not on Christmas, @Murdock, never on Christmas.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    A classically trained actor close to Flemings character. No chance. Dalton is never inferior to Brosnan.

    Who tried to be close to Fleming's character but gave an over emotional, uncomfortable hammy performance that was nowhere near Fleming's Bond. He didn't have the oompf Sean, Roger, Pierce and Daniel had. So weaker than Brosnan and arguably weaker than Lazenby.
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    Holy Christ, that made my mouth slam to the floor. Not on Christmas, @Murdock, never on Christmas.
    Sorry @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I didn't want to say it but someone has to. Pierce gets so unfairly beaten around the bush where Tim gets overrated praise when in all honestly, Tim wasn't that great at all as Bond. I just find him to be terribly weak. But he did have good moments. Pierce gave a great Bond performance right out the gate.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think Dalton generally speaking is a good actor and of course his classical training speaks for itself.

    He had some excellent scenes (outside Felix's house, Pushkin's interrogation etc) but there are other times where I think his performance feel forced and stagey ("DELLAAA", "TAKE ME TO HIM").

    To be honest I'm not entirely sure Tim's a particularly natural screen actor. Is he a better actor than Brosnan though? Probably.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    This. I'm surprised how many people confuse the two.
  • Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    This. I'm surprised how many people confuse the two.

    I'm inclined to agree too.



    This barn scene was arguably more convincing than anything we saw from both Pierce AND Tim.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    That was a great scene.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2016 Posts: 13,882
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan. Brosnan is the middle of the road Bond. Lacking Connery's manliness, Geroge's athleticism, Moore's charm (when he kept it in check) & Dalton's intensity. Attempt a little of all, succeeding entirely at none. What's that saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none".

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression. Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea? Do you know if that was Pierce's idea? Or maybe the filmmakers. You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it. Why is he so great? I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan. Brosnan is the middle of the road Bond. Lacking Connery's manliness, Geroge's athleticism, Moore's charm (when he kept it in check) & Dalton's intensity. Attempt a little of all, succeeding entirely at none. What's that saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none".

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Can't really argue that. Broz was the crowd pleaser.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Craig should have adjusted his cufflinks under water in Skyfall, but the writers were too lazy.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Craig should have adjusted his cufflinks under water in Skyfall, but the writers were too lazy.

    They did work in that New York, New York "joke" during the car chase. That was very Brosnan-ish.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I loved that gag.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I loved that gag.

    It's naff. They did it better in The Simpsons.



  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The Simpsons always do it better.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Even with Bond songs.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,882
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    At times I think Dalton's performance in LTK is weak. I can see that Dalton was aiming for a less glamorous, less "suave" Bond but I do feel he could be a bit too mannered at times with his dramatic movements and facial expressions. You could SEE Dalton putting effort into his performance rather than it being natural.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    Which documentary? Besides who cares, It's one scene in the movie. Humor is suggestive. Much like I don't like any of Tim's attempts at humor. How about that moment he puts Moneypenny's glasses on wrong? No point.

    You've said see above twice, show me the documentary you mention.

    He was trying to be Bond and didn't do a very good job. Whatever he was trying to be, he didn't accomplish it and it came off weak.

    He didn't bring anything new. He's just another guy playing Bond and overracting a lot. Everything he supposedly brought others already brought and done better. Sean, George and Roger all had intense and dark moments in their respective films. Heck OHMSS even had some LTK level gore with the chap getting stuck in the snow blower. Not much new I can think of. So I respectfully disagree with you there. The Living Daylights is not a classy cold war thriller. It's no From Russia With Love or Dr. No. It's a spy movie with few good scenes and a lot of flaws. Licence to Kill is a revenge film and a darn good one too. Brosnan didn't let his films carry him along for the ride, He was Bond and I believe him as Bond. Can't say the same for Tim.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    That's a good scene. The ones that don't quite work for me are where he finds Della, his scowl as he infiltrates the Wave Krest and walks round the cabin and his interactions with Lupe in the casino. Even his performance with Robert Brown in The Hemmingway House scene feels a little mannered. Connery and Craig would play it very differently and more low key.

    There are certain "looks" Dalton does at times that feel acted as opposed to natural (his look of surprise when he sees the shark when entering Krest's warehouse and again when he realises Pam has survived being shot in the back).

    He was acting all the time.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    That's a good scene. The ones that don't quite work for me are where he finds Della, his scowl as he infiltrates the Wave Krest and walks round the cabin and his interactions with Lupe in the casino. Even his performance with Robert Brown in The Hemmingway House scene feels a little mannered. Connery and Craig would play it very differently and more low key.

    The scene is fine but that was the only photo I had to use to show my point. Everytime he was upset he'd make that damn face. He did it so much it was corny.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Come on, guys! It s Christmas. Let s not bash the Bond actors.

    Well, maybe Brosnan, a little.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Come on, guys! It s Christmas. Let s not bash the Bond actors.

    Well, maybe Brosnan, a little.
    Here here. ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Christ, it's gotten a bit nasty in here, hasn't it? I'd say "boys with toys," but you lads haven't even opened your gifts yet.

    I'd rather not spend Christmas morning debating Bonds in this borderline vitriolic way, though I am tempted to throw all my lot in with Dalton against Brosnan. Maybe I'll save my thoughts for a rainy day, and post them in a versus thread here?

    All I'll say before I pop off is that in LTK when Bond discovers Della and Felix he gives a performance that stomps into the ground anything Brosnan did for his entire tenure. He made me scared of Bond because I knew that he'd stop at nothing from that point to do what he needed to do, but I never feel anything like that watching Brosnan. I really like Pierce, he's one of my favorite people, but when it comes to Bond I can't say he makes me enthusiastic. I'll have to hold off on any more conclusive thoughts until I revisit his films soon, but at the moment he'd probably be dead last for me in a ranking of best Bonds, even behind Roger. Roger at the very least knew his role, played it with consistency and though he didn't have great suits, he wore them very distinguished and with an air of propriety that interestingly clashed with some of his bastard nature. I hate to say it, but more often than not poor old Pierce got dressed in suits that made him look like a used car salesman. His era saw a suffocation of patterned ties on top of that, the killing blow to any good suit. Could you image Sean wearing his Sinclair Conduit suits with patterned ties? Lord....

    I'm going to putter off now. You lads play nice...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Pierce is the better Bond and would have been great in Skyfall. Merry Christmas. ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2016 Posts: 13,882
    Murdock wrote: »
    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    He wasn't "mad" that much in TLD, only that particular scene (Saunder's death). He was irritated more than mad, but they are not the same thing, and he didn't have a one expression fits all expression (like Pain Face).
    Murdock wrote: »
    Which documentary?

    Might have been 'James Bond Down River'. Unless I am mistaken, and he didn't suggest that, so that is one thing less that he contributed.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Besides who cares, It's one scene in the movie.

    But you care enough to post about Dalton gritting his teeth in one scene in TLD. Talking of gritting teeth, Brosnan does that in TWINE, when Bond has Renard at gunpoint. So I guess that gritting teeth isn't an aspect exclusive to Dalton's style. What a pity.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Humor is suggestive. Much like I don't like any of Tim's attempts at humor. How about that moment he puts Moneypenny's glasses on wrong? No point.

    I don't think that is supposed to be a moment of humour.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You've said see above twice, show me the documentary you mention.

    It might have been James Bond Down River. Unless I imagined it, in which case, that is one less contribution.
    Murdock wrote: »
    He was trying to be Bond and didn't do a very good job. Whatever he was trying to be, he didn't accomplish it and it came off weak.

    That's a matter of perspective. Weak is not pushing Bond in this direction, or that direction, but staying down the middle all of the way. As I said, whatever one thinks of Dalton, at least he tried to do something different. Some people might not think it worked, but at least he knew what he wanted to do.
    Murdock wrote: »
    He didn't bring anything new. He's just another guy playing Bond and overracting a lot. Everything he supposedly brought others already brought and done better. Sean, George and Roger all had intense and dark moments in their respective films.

    They share some similar aspects, but those aspects don't define the previous actors as they did Dalton. His Bond is defined by his intense and ruthless style.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Heck OHMSS even had some LTK level gore with the chap getting stuck in the snow blower. Not much new I can think of.

    You can't compare OHMSS to LTK. One has the class of a Bond film, the other doesn't, but takes the films into uncharted territory. You might as well attack GE for featuring a space based something or other like MR, YOLT, or TND for featuring boats, TWINE for a personal story (again!), or DAD for featuring snow.
    Murdock wrote: »
    So I respectfully disagree with you there. The Living Daylights is not a classy cold war thriller. It's no From Russia With Love or Dr. No.

    DN isn't really a spy thriller. But I digress, i think that TLD definitely is a classy cold war spy thriller. It's a spy thriller, but not of the Ipcress File kind, it retains the refinement of Bonds world.
    Murdock wrote: »
    It's a spy movie with few good scenes and a lot of flaws

    It has no flaws, or at least none that pull me out of the film.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Licence to Kill is a revenge film and a darn good one too.

    That we can agree on. Though LTK does have one small flaw, it's almost not worth mentioning, but i'll do it anyway, but I don't like that winking fish at the end. That feels like a hangover of the Moore era.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Brosnan didn't let his films carry him along for the ride, He was Bond and I believe him as Bond. Can't say the same for Tim.

    I don't have anything more to add. How you feel about Brosnan, is how I feel about Dalton, and how you feel about Dalton is how I feel about Brosnan.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    George is the better car salesman.
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