Skyfall would have been a better movie if Pierce was the lead in lieu of Daniel

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  • Twine is better than SF.

    Both have sub par action but Twine has a more interesting plot with the bond girl turning out to be the villain. Ok it could have been done better but overall I find Twine a better film.
  • Twine is better than SF.

    Both have sub par action but Twine has a more interesting plot with the bond girl turning out to be the villain. Ok it could have been done better but overall I find Twine a better film.

    Agreed.TWINE really is underrated.Its seems TND is criticised for being too formulaic and then when TWINE experimented with the formula and took it in new directions it got criticised for that reason.


  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,734
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    Haha can you imagine all the Painface moments we'd be getting if Broz was in Skyfall?

    -Fighting Patrice on the train
    -Working out at MI6
    -Cutting the shrapnel out of his chest
    -Holding Patrice over the tower ledge
    -Grappling the goon in the komodo lair
    -Running through the London streets
    -Bonus underwater painface at Skyfall lake
    -Super maximum painface as M dies



    maxresdefault.jpg
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 3,245
    so none of you have any arguments what so ever?

    Craig's physical features work well.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,879
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,232
    Skyfall would have lost some serious emotional weight with Brosnan as Bond, and those kinds of moments are at the heart of the film and make it more exceptional than others; without them, they're be a hollowness. Dan plays those quiet moments beautifully, but I think Pierce would have struggled with the same material because I don't think it's his strong suit. It's also down to the types of Bond movies they made. Pierce was burdened with following tradition and Dan has been free to experiment, with the films suited to him instead of him being a slave to the material like I think Pierce was.

    Overall, I'm happy with how it unfolded. Skyfall is a Daniel Craig film, as it should be.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,879
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 27,252
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,879
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    A classically trained actor close to Flemings character. No chance. Dalton is never inferior to Brosnan.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,232
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    Holy Christ, that made my mouth slam to the floor. Not on Christmas, @Murdock, never on Christmas.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    A classically trained actor close to Flemings character. No chance. Dalton is never inferior to Brosnan.

    Who tried to be close to Fleming's character but gave an over emotional, uncomfortable hammy performance that was nowhere near Fleming's Bond. He didn't have the oompf Sean, Roger, Pierce and Daniel had. So weaker than Brosnan and arguably weaker than Lazenby.
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    Holy Christ, that made my mouth slam to the floor. Not on Christmas, @Murdock, never on Christmas.
    Sorry @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I didn't want to say it but someone has to. Pierce gets so unfairly beaten around the bush where Tim gets overrated praise when in all honestly, Tim wasn't that great at all as Bond. I just find him to be terribly weak. But he did have good moments. Pierce gave a great Bond performance right out the gate.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,168
    I think Dalton generally speaking is a good actor and of course his classical training speaks for itself.

    He had some excellent scenes (outside Felix's house, Pushkin's interrogation etc) but there are other times where I think his performance feel forced and stagey ("DELLAAA", "TAKE ME TO HIM").

    To be honest I'm not entirely sure Tim's a particularly natural screen actor. Is he a better actor than Brosnan though? Probably.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,259
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    This. I'm surprised how many people confuse the two.
  • Posts: 11,168
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    No. Brosnan is the weakest Bond actor of the series so far.
    That honor goes to Tim.

    I've been leaning in that direction myself. Though George is weaker than both in reality, his natural approach made up for inexperience, but I wouldn't call him a great actor.

    This. I'm surprised how many people confuse the two.

    I'm inclined to agree too.



    This barn scene was arguably more convincing than anything we saw from both Pierce AND Tim.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    That was a great scene.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "Better cold with them on, than dead with them off, I always say."Moderator
    edited December 2016 Posts: 10,830
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan. Brosnan is the middle of the road Bond. Lacking Connery's manliness, Geroge's athleticism, Moore's charm (when he kept it in check) & Dalton's intensity. Attempt a little of all, succeeding entirely at none. What's that saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none".

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression. Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea? Do you know if that was Pierce's idea? Or maybe the filmmakers. You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it. Why is he so great? I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,168
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan. Brosnan is the middle of the road Bond. Lacking Connery's manliness, Geroge's athleticism, Moore's charm (when he kept it in check) & Dalton's intensity. Attempt a little of all, succeeding entirely at none. What's that saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none".

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Can't really argue that. Broz was the crowd pleaser.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,648
    Craig should have adjusted his cufflinks under water in Skyfall, but the writers were too lazy.
  • Posts: 11,168
    Craig should have adjusted his cufflinks under water in Skyfall, but the writers were too lazy.

    They did work in that New York, New York "joke" during the car chase. That was very Brosnan-ish.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,648
    I loved that gag.
  • Posts: 11,168
    I loved that gag.

    It's naff. They did it better in The Simpsons.



  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,648
    The Simpsons always do it better.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    Even with Bond songs.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "Better cold with them on, than dead with them off, I always say."Moderator
    Posts: 10,830
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,168
    At times I think Dalton's performance in LTK is weak. I can see that Dalton was aiming for a less glamorous, less "suave" Bond but I do feel he could be a bit too mannered at times with his dramatic movements and facial expressions. You could SEE Dalton putting effort into his performance rather than it being natural.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    Which documentary? Besides who cares, It's one scene in the movie. Humor is suggestive. Much like I don't like any of Tim's attempts at humor. How about that moment he puts Moneypenny's glasses on wrong? No point.

    You've said see above twice, show me the documentary you mention.

    He was trying to be Bond and didn't do a very good job. Whatever he was trying to be, he didn't accomplish it and it came off weak.

    He didn't bring anything new. He's just another guy playing Bond and overracting a lot. Everything he supposedly brought others already brought and done better. Sean, George and Roger all had intense and dark moments in their respective films. Heck OHMSS even had some LTK level gore with the chap getting stuck in the snow blower. Not much new I can think of. So I respectfully disagree with you there. The Living Daylights is not a classy cold war thriller. It's no From Russia With Love or Dr. No. It's a spy movie with few good scenes and a lot of flaws. Licence to Kill is a revenge film and a darn good one too. Brosnan didn't let his films carry him along for the ride, He was Bond and I believe him as Bond. Can't say the same for Tim.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,168
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    That's a good scene. The ones that don't quite work for me are where he finds Della, his scowl as he infiltrates the Wave Krest and walks round the cabin and his interactions with Lupe in the casino. Even his performance with Robert Brown in The Hemmingway House scene feels a little mannered. Connery and Craig would play it very differently and more low key.

    There are certain "looks" Dalton does at times that feel acted as opposed to natural (his look of surprise when he sees the shark when entering Krest's warehouse and again when he realises Pam has survived being shot in the back).

    He was acting all the time.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,865
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The oomph of Brosnan? Come off it. At least Dalton tried something (whether it worked or not is a different matter). What did Brosnan do? Suggest the tie straightening under the water in TWINE. Woah... don't dazzle us with your creativity, Brosnan.

    Bottom line, Dalton had everything but an audience. Brosnan had an audience, but no idea of his Bond.

    Oh please, Dalton didn't fair better. Whenever he was miffed he'd get all misty eyed and grit his teeth like he was doing a French Stewart impression.

    Grit his teeth like this...?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j5rj4hvVdUw/maxresdefault.jpg

    Murdock wrote: »
    Oh yes how can we get the underwater tie straightening, that was such a pivotal moment. And where does that come off as Pierce's idea?

    On one documentary, it was stated that it was Brosnan's idea.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Do you know if that was Pierce's idea?

    See above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Or maybe the filmmakers.

    Again, see above.
    Murdock wrote: »
    You come off it. What did Dalton do? Try to act cool but failing at it.

    He didn't try to act cool, because acting cool wasn't what he was aiming for.
    Murdock wrote: »
    Why is he so great?

    Because he brought a new style to Bond, and was excellent at doing so. He might have lacked the uber manliness of Connery, but Dalton's Bond was still tough when needed, and was a Bond quite ready to get his hands dirty. And while he didn't overdo the charm, we could be charming when needed. He brought an intense, ruthless edge to Bond that hadn't been seen before. He also sprinkled in subtle touches (such as Bond scanning the evironment around him at different times and his sublte displeasure at the coffee in the Prater Cafe.
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't see it He was in one weak film and one good one and Licence to Kill wasn't good because of him.

    I disagree. He was in two excellent films. One a classy latter day cold war spy thriller with a romatic edge, and one down n' dirty action revenge thriller. Both work because of Dalton, he didn't sit back at let his films carry him, he took on the role already knowing exactly what he wanted to do with the role. Again, whether he was good or bad is personal opinion, but he knew what he wanted to and did his best to make it happen. I would rather an actor try and fail, rather than sit back and not try at all.

    One bloody scene in the movie. Every time Dalton was mad in TLD and LTK he made the same over acted goofy gritty teeth face. How intense... Yawn...
    td013.jpg

    That's a good scene. The ones that don't quite work for me are where he finds Della, his scowl as he infiltrates the Wave Krest and walks round the cabin and his interactions with Lupe in the casino. Even his performance with Robert Brown in The Hemmingway House scene feels a little mannered. Connery and Craig would play it very differently and more low key.

    The scene is fine but that was the only photo I had to use to show my point. Everytime he was upset he'd make that damn face. He did it so much it was corny.
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