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Comments
Sitting on their arses, ........... so at least NO change there ! :D
Yes, they'll have to kiss a sorry goodbye to the cash cow that is the European Parliament.
I voted Leave, but I do know there are things to worry about with this vote. The lack of leadership in the UK is one of them. That said, had the Remain vote won, could we picture the same guys holding up against the Eurocrats? Brexit also gave some kind of pseudo-legitimacy, or at least pseudo-relevance, to Farage and ultraconservative of his kind. Like I said, there were legitimate reasons for the Left to vote Leave. Sadly, we didn't hear much from them. Maybe it is time we do.
So anyway, let's have a general election. There's a divorce to settle and we need a competent solicitor.
I'm more amazed by the below par reaction of the EU presidents, and in particular the pro-EU parties here in the Netherlands. Don't they understand that all their 'we should stand up to populism' without giving any alternative to what they've always promoted, a super state EU, is what's driving the vote against them? They all say 'maybe this is a wake-up call'and then fall back in the same retorics they've used for years!
I was hoping it would be a wake-up call and they'd strive to reform, to a far more democratic system, but alas. In 5 years time one or more other countries will start to leave if they don't adjust.
This is something to worry about. On the other hand, I do think many who voted Leave do not care much about ultra conservatism or even conservatism, for one and from the reaction after the Leave vote we see people wanting to stabilize things and keep on doing business with the UK. In many ways the vote is not an isolationist one. We did not see EU as representing us or showing us respect.
'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke
General election, no other way. As fast as possible. I didn't vote for any of those clowns. But even I wasn't aware how useless this gang of fools is. Out with the lot of them.
I do think @DarthDimi has a point here though. So I wrote down a few comparisons of '-isms', in which one is generally seen the opposite of the other. Ask yourself which of these prevail these days. In all honesty, the ones I placed in bold seem to be more popular these days or seem to be gaining ground on democracies in the classic West (USA, France, UK, Netherlands, Greece, Hungary, etc.):
--> 'Progressiveness' vs. 'Conservatism'
--> 'Nationalism' vs. 'Internationalism'
--> 'Progressiveness' vs. 'Ultra-Conservatism'
--> 'Ultra-Nationalism' vs. 'Internationalism'
--> 'Elitarism' vs. 'Populism'
--> 'Monoculturalism' vs. 'Multiculturalism'
--> 'Xenophilia' (affection for the unknown) vs. 'Xenophobia'
--> 'Xenophobia' vs. 'Oikophobia' (aversion to home surroundings)
--> 'Love' vs. 'Hate'
--> 'Fascism' (milder than national socialism, not racist) vs. 'Intellectualism'
--> 'Liberalism' vs. 'Fascism'
--> 'Narcism' vs 'Empathy'
--> 'Rationalism' vs. 'Empiricism'
Obviously, we tend to hate elitarism and intellectualism a lot these days. Like in the 1930's, it has become unpopular to think of elitarism and intellectualism as something good or helpful. I actually wonder if some people in here actually dare to name some positive points about elitarism and intellectualism. Because I think there are.
So in the light of all these '-isms', I again will repost this article. Because ever since I posted it, no one in here wrote a proper response to it. The only person in here who was considering to actually fully read it was @BondJames (actually someone. So I am curious what he thinks. And it's also interesting to know what you think about it @DarthDimi :-):
Well f**king said. Jesus @Gustav give it a rest before MI6 send you a bill for using up all the memory on their server.
Frankly chaps Brexit pales in seriousness next to the state of the England team.
Although I am enjoying The Corbyn Show. Go on Jezza old son; ignore any rational logic and keep slogging on. You've almost got to admire him if he didn't appear to be an Alzheimer's patient who has escaped from a ward.
Chortle.
I notice the one comparison he doesn't make is:
Democracy vs Ignoring the electorate and suggesting that the referendum should be overturned because the result didn't go as the liberal intelligentsia wanted it to.
There is. It is fundamentally being ignored in here. No one has read it (except 2 or 3 people). And from people who have strong opinions in here, I sometimes expect a more elaborate view on these issues by backing up there arguments with a bit more than cheap tabloid links.
So again: There is need to re-post it. And, that's something you forget, I perhaps reposted the article, but I also posted a 'fresh' new view on this with help of comparisons. Also that you ignore.
A fourth ?
One of the signs of madness is to repeatedly do the same thing, yet expect a different
Outcome. ;)
Strange that is bothering you now. I don't remember you kicking off about the people being ignored before the vote.
Perhaps you are staring to understand why some people felt the need to vote Brexit.
Fresh new view? You posted the same article 3 times (though I am sure I saw another one). That's not fresh, that's rotten, crawling with maggots. Beating people over the head by reposting it until you get a response you are satisfied with, won't make them read the article.
Comment on it. ;)
Rotten? How dare you. Irritation is one thing, but I'm appalled that you think the below is 'rotten and crawling with maggots'.
Furthermore, I don't want an answer that makes me satisfied! I want fresh opinions about it. And a deeper, more intelligent discussion. I want people to disagree with me on every instance, on the below fresh part of my post. I am simply insanely curious what others think about this.
But, to use your words, I think there is no reason at all that a moderator in here should or will warn me about my 'rotten' posts that are 'crawling with maggots'.
There you have it. And why would that be dear @Thunderpussy :-). Do they agree? Do they disagree? Or don't they have good counter arguments? Or...is a good article with too much text simply....'pollution' in here :-).
Calling people who wanted to leave "stupid" was a mistake :D
Doh ! Do you think so ? :))
:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Wait, a few more.....
:)) :)) :)) :))
:)
I did read it on the day that you posted it first. There are some good historical points and parallels there. Ultimately though, the author (Sullivan) demonstrates a bias in his points and arguments. It's spun to validate his point of view and that's apparent to me. I don't see how it relates to Brexit either. It more ostensibly is discussing the US Trump phenomenon and makes a lot of assumptions with loose historical anecdotes to substantiate a preconceived point of view.
As I've said on the US election thread, the US is not a parliamentary system. There are three branches of Government (Executive, Legislative and Judicial) and a president is held in check by the other branches, as Barack Obama has found out. The foreign policy area is where a president wields most real power.
Ultimately, in my view / opinion, members of the US public who end up voting for Trump will do so to effect change, as a protest against the status quo, and more importantly, to give support to someone who projects strength and appears to not be beholden to behind the scenes power brokers and big business. Someone who will at least 'try' to fight on their behalf. Whether he does or not is a different matter, but that is what they will vote for - as an outsider to the system which they feel has let them down personally.
At the end of the day, if Trump wins, then like with Brexit, it will be because the other side did not make their case clearly enough, and did not provide a suitable alternative for the voter. His weaknesses are clear for everyone to see - he's certainly not hiding it, is he? If people still vote for him, it's because the alternative which they know full well is even more odious in their eyes.
I do not subscribe to comments and views that the voters are stupid, ignorant, emotional racist, bigoted, and 'fascist'. When one tries to take such an approach to make one's case, one loses me. A better argument is required.
Please understand, I have nothing but good will towards you. Your tenacity in the defence
Of your opinion, has to be commended.
I do enjoy these little discussions, very enjoyable. :)>-
Think I would have gone with:
'I do enjoy our little visits Mr Graves, however potentially painful they may be.'
Missed opportunity old chap.