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The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Assad has huge support in Syria. He has been elected several times. Democracy isn t the issue.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    OK change Syria to the Ukraine ;) or any of the ex soviet countries Putin would like back.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There was a fascist coup in Ukraine, backed by the EU. Again, democracy isn t the issue.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,692
    What if Trump wins the US elections? Will we get a petition signed by 10 million Americans asking for a 2nd vote?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Syria is a one party dictatorship, so getting huge election victories. I'd say
    Wouldn't be too hard. I think you might be mixing up voting with democracy
    Which aren't always the same thing. ;) Old Kim Jung un regularly also gets
    Huge votes, ........... but is that democratic ? :))
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Where do you have that from?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The web it never lies to me ;) :D
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    In that case it has lied to me. There were nine parties partaking in the latest Syrian elections.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    So Syria is a democratic country, that just happens to be ruled since 1971 by
    The Al-Assad family, I must be wrong and they must truly be deeply loved by
    The people. A utopia of political discussion and brotherly love. :D
    I stand corrected ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That is in fact correct.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    " For that, Major, I will accept the judgment of posterity." :D
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Demanding a second vote within days of a result shows the inability to accept a democratic vote.
    Something that has been voted on 40 years ago can not be compared to this situation, that's just ridiculous, it's generations ago.
    Once the British are out of the EU for 10 years a new vote could be considered if the wish for it will still exist. Something I doubt greatly.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Might be a good idea though, next government election, demand a do over.
    Also there are a coup!e of old X factor votes, I'm not happy with. Even the
    Vote for the new conservative leader, could be demanded to be held again. :D
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Yes, also the ESC result was a catastrophe. Let's redo it too.
    The EURO was won by "tbd". I don't agree. Let's repeat the final.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perhaps MPs , anyone with a university degree could have two votes. The
    Uneducated working classes only one. That way, the elite could ensure the
    Vote always went the "correct" way. :))
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    I really dont think many of those demonstrating today realise the full political implications of what they are doing. Eddie Izzard is a prominant inner and published an articel before the vote on the anniversary of D Day saying that the EU had brought us peace etc and we owed it to the soldiers etc etc,
    how ironic that the struggle for democracy, including WW2 is now being trampled on by those who seek to overturn the will of the people. These are the same who preach tolerance etc. Mind blowing !!!!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    There is a rule of thumb, that any debate Eddie gets involved with, his side fails :))
    After all he did so much for Labour in the Scottish elections.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    patb wrote: »
    I really dont think many of those demonstrating today realise the full political implications of what they are doing. Eddie Izzard is a prominant inner and published an articel before the vote on the anniversary of D Day saying that the EU had brought us peace etc and we owed it to the soldiers etc etc,
    how ironic that the struggle for democracy, including WW2 is now being trampled on by those who seek to overturn the will of the people. These are the same who preach tolerance etc. Mind blowing !!!!


    Make it a bit less pompous, will ya? This is the will of the peeps. The other 48%, remember? Do you expect them to agree with you just so you can feel a bit more victorious? Here's a secret for you: they never will. This is what makes it democracy, there is an opposition and they're not going to make it easier. Get used to it.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    I expect them to grow up and accept the vote. They are entitled to have a view but not to attempt to overturn the will of the majority. We cant let this become a social norm. Will he get similar demonstrations in future following general elections? Or will conservative party members who dont get the leader they want march on party HQ to over turn the vote. If the louder 48% get to over turn the will of the 52% then we are in a bad place. And it speaks volumes that those who make the mildest attempt at defending democracy and upholding the will of the majority is labelled as pompous.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,855
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    On leaving the EU, I think Blofeld would have approved, as he said .....

    "Well, the methods of the great pioneers
    have often puzzled conventional minds."

    I always thought that both movie and novel Blofeld would be pro EU. Disdain if not hostility for democracy, disregard for national particularities, focus on discipline, obedience and loyalty towards a stateless/para-state entity... SPECTRE is like the criminal version of the EU.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was thinking the same thing.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I agree The EU is just like SPECTRE, full of corruption, almost an evil empire, just
    Looking to control everything and everyone. Just like Blofeld it too sounds fictional,
    Yet people want to be in it. :))
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,855
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I agree The EU is just like SPECTRE, full of corruption, almost an evil empire, just
    Looking to control everything and everyone. Just like Blofeld it too sounds fictional,
    Yet people want to be in it. :))

    Blofeld is far more competent than Junker though. But who knows. Maybe he is controlling them after all.
  • SanchairsSanchairs UK
    Posts: 140
    Whatever post 1969 USA foreign dictates - as a rule - I would go against.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    patb wrote: »
    I expect them to grow up and accept the vote. They are entitled to have a view but not to attempt to overturn the will of the majority.

    That's a completely normal democratic process, it's called convincing. I should have thought for somebody who carries the term 'democracy' around in front of himself you'd be a little more familiar with its actual meaning and processes. But you don't seem to have that much trust in your own abilities to convince. And quite a bit afraid of their powers to do better than you.

    patb wrote: »
    We cant let this become a social norm.

    In a democracy it is a social norm to express one's opinion and not be silenced for it. And you better not try changing it.
    patb wrote: »
    If the louder 48% get to over turn the will of the 52% then we are in a bad place.

    Maybe the 48% are no longer the minority? Maybe the numbers have changed? Actually, they do this all the time, it's called life.
    patb wrote: »
    And it speaks volumes that those who make the mildest attempt at defending democracy and upholding the will of the majority is labelled as pompous.

    Go sue me. Pompous.


  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    "Maybe the 48% are no longer the minority? Maybe the numbers have changed? Actually, they do this all the time, it's called life. "

    Yes, fair point. Lets have another referendum to see if opinion has shifted....and perhaps another in a couple of weeks after that...and another
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,996
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    Yes, I agree. The "Remain" campaign are the real Fascists ! :(
    Whether you like it or not, a democratic vote is just that. If you
    Felt strongly enough, you should have got off your arse and voted !

    I'm actually stunned by the fascist reactions of the 'in' side in the UK as well as in my own country, even people I thought were friends. But if you start showing disdain for 51% of a people because 'you know' why they voted that way so they're all insane, you're losing me big time. No one should ever be disdainfull towards another person for what that person thinks.


    Campbell2 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    We cant let this become a social norm.

    In a democracy it is a social norm to express one's opinion and not be silenced for it. And you better not try changing it.
    As far as I recall it's the 'norm' to let your voice be heard before the vote, not afterwards. Makes more sense too if you ask me. But I haven't seen any demonstrations before the vote.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    CommanderRoss wrote: »

    Campbell2 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    We cant let this become a social norm.

    In a democracy it is a social norm to express one's opinion and not be silenced for it. And you better not try changing it.
    As far as I recall it's the 'norm' to let your voice be heard before the vote, not afterwards. Makes more sense too if you ask me. But I haven't seen any demonstrations before the vote.

    Not at all, there is no 'norm' as to when you start forming your opinion, nor is there a rule when you start expressing it. In a democracy you can start doing so on any given day. There is yet no law against it and I'm damn proud of this!

    There have been demonstrations, you just didn't look for them, perhaps also because it's not your country and you're not familiar with the daily goings on around here. They were nowhere near this scale, I grant you that. But you haven't seen the last of it, I'm fairly sure about that too. Also and especially since this is going to be the sole topic of our next general election.

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,602
    Can anyone point to any single historical demonstration in the UK that aimed to over turn the decision recently made by the electorate? This is unprecedented IMHO
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299
    Read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

    We live in parliamentary sovereignty, by default this means any referendum can be ignored by the parliament. None is a binding decision as such, it's still the job of that parliament to decide whether or not they follow or ignore any referendum. Such are the rules here. A general election will be inevitable to form a functional government after the last one stole out the backdoor. Meanwhile the electorate makes its voice heard is all that happens. You ought to be happy you live in a country where this is possible.

This discussion has been closed.