The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Posts: 1,631
    TripAces wrote: »
    So I don't know where you get your info, but control over public education is still residing with the states and districts, as it always has.

    It does reside with the states and districts, but they are held somewhat hostage by the funding they get from the federal government.

    The standardized tests that are given require teachers teach to the test throughout the year rather than teaching a more fully developed curriculum. Now, this could be tweaked in a way to make it a more ideal setup, but the way that it's currently utilized in some places, leaves something to be desired.

    When I was taking the standardized tests in high school, they were horrendously easy. We're talking about the tests being an insult to one's intelligence. In essence, the entire year was wasted teaching to a test that was incredibly easy and would have really only required a couple of weeks of review to get caught up on in order to pass the test. I do believe that they've increased the difficulty of the tests since then, but I doubt that they've done so to a level that would make that one single test an adequate representation of what a student has learned over the course of a year.

    There are ways to make this a better system if the government wanted to keep it on a federal level. But the problem is that the Constitution does not even prescribe a function for the federal government to get involved in education, and therefore it should be left up to the states. Based on the current law, it should be the states, and the states alone, determining how to run things instead of the bizarre hybrid of the states technically being in charge of determining tests and curriculum, but having to shape all of that in some way solely for the receipt of some form of federal funding.

    I'm not necessarily against federal oversight or involvement in education. I just think it has to be one or the other, either the states are in charge of it from top to bottom, or the federal government is in charge of it completely, with the states and local only being involved in terms of running the day-to-day operations, something the federal government would obviously not be able to do. For a federal takeover, the Constitution would have to be amended. That's fine with me, if that's what everyone decides needs to be done, but I don't think the current system where the federal government lords over the state and local districts using funding to chase an imaginary set of standards that all 50 states will never agree to on their own is the best way to go.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948
    Well, obviously as a stranger to the American system, and thank you both for the level of this discussion, I'm wondering if there's not some other factors at play. One thing I hear sometimes is that some religious groups are very, let's say adament, that some things can't be tought (darwinism). Which would automatically mean that federal level would be better as it would be less susceptible to states beeing infuential in the curriculum. On the other hand 'one size fits all' tests make the level of education way too low in areas where kids just have a higher standard of living (this is, i'm afraid, just a sociological fact: low education standards are there where people are poor and vice versa, it's a loop). Which would, in a way, make the state level the better option. But I'd say there are more ways to (new) Rome. As far as i grasp your system, there's no differentiating in level of education up to highschool. I think you should start there: schools for those with the better abilities learning more. Those schools, however, shouldn't be more expensive! They should be just as, with only grades to differentiate.

    just a thought..
  • Posts: 315
    While I don't think the federal govt. should dictate everything as regards education, this notion of letting local school districts control everything is ridiculous. It's the same states(Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, etc.. that have lowest ranked students). How can you raise the bar when many Republicans reject climate change, Darwinism..etc.. Many states take federal education $$$ and use them for other issues.

    You can't let the states have 100% autonomy because the results would be disastrous.
  • Posts: 1,631
    FLeiter wrote: »
    You can't let the states have 100% autonomy because the results would be disastrous.

    Constitutionally, they do have 100% autonomy. The federal government has found loopholes to get around that, but the Constitution does not grant the federal government authority over education, and any power not granted to the federal government is left to the states.

    If the government desires to take over education, then that would require an amendment to the Constitution. As one of the so-called evil Republicans, I simply support following the Constitution. If the federal government proves that they can actually perform a service at the national level in a satisfactory way, and they feel they can take on education in an effective way, then fine.

    Some states do not do a good job at education, but as @CommanderRoss said, the complete nationalization of the process could also lead to lower standards across the board, which wouldn't be a good thing either. It's about finding a balance without violating the law as written in the Constitution.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2016 Posts: 4,548
    Well, obviously as a stranger to the American system, and thank you both for the level of this discussion, I'm wondering if there's not some other factors at play. One thing I hear sometimes is that some religious groups are very, let's say adament, that some things can't be tought (darwinism). Which would automatically mean that federal level would be better as it would be less susceptible to states beeing infuential in the curriculum. On the other hand 'one size fits all' tests make the level of education way too low in areas where kids just have a higher standard of living (this is, i'm afraid, just a sociological fact: low education standards are there where people are poor and vice versa, it's a loop). Which would, in a way, make the state level the better option. But I'd say there are more ways to (new) Rome. As far as i grasp your system, there's no differentiating in level of education up to highschool. I think you should start there: schools for those with the better abilities learning more. Those schools, however, shouldn't be more expensive! They should be just as, with only grades to differentiate.

    just a thought..

    The issue isn't easy to solve. And @dalton is correct: states manage education, and that is the end of the discussion. But we also live in a time where standardized tests are everything. This is NOT a Republican or Democrat edict. Both sides push this, and they have done so in response to the public.

    Standardized tests do two things: 1. Create quantified data; 2. Create that data quickly and relatively inexpensively.

    As long as our politicians are hyper-focused on competing with other countries, in terms of math and engineering, we're in a tough spot, because we can't compete with those countries under the system we currently have. First of all, it's an apples/oranges comparison. The U.S. is one of the few countries that offers a fully subsidized public education through 12th grade.

    But there are some simple, common sense remedies that can help:

    1. Year-round school. This has to happen in the U.S. Study after study shows that an eight to ten week layoff is harmful.

    2. Compulsory education starts in pre-K. Despite the short-term burden this places on states, the long-term benefits would be huge: millions of parents would be saving daycare $ and putting that into other (more beneficial) things. As a result, the pre-K year becomes the socialization year, allowing for more students to enter kindergarten prepared. As it is now, more and more kindergarten teachers are reporting that youngsters are coming to them unprepared.






  • I just couldn't resist.

    12797970_1685614158375429_2029236147_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTE5OTY4MTg3MzA3NzIyNTQwMQ%3D%3D.2
  • All he wants is a frikkin' wall with frikkin' laser beams and for frikkin' Mexico to frikkin' PAY for it! Is that too much to ask???
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) I love that photo.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2016 Posts: 5,921
    The current Republican party isn't about education; it's about religion.

    Religious extremists fled Europe, colonized the US, and a few centuries later, this is the result.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    echo wrote: »
    The current Republican party isn't about education; it's about religion.

    Religious extremists fled Europe, colonized the US, and a few centuries later, this is the result.
    Of course we left; we were tired of being turned into newts.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "Newt" Gingrich ? ;)
  • "Fig" newts.
  • Posts: 12,506
    I just couldn't resist.

    12797970_1685614158375429_2029236147_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTE5OTY4MTg3MzA3NzIyNTQwMQ%3D%3D.2

    That is hilarious!!! :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Trump is Drax with trashy manners.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Oh MAN @Murdock that was awesome!!!!! =))
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    @chrisisall, you'll get a kick out of these. :))


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    LOL + tears... =))
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Oh dear heavens, I cannot stop laughing! =))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    They spared no one on either side! I really did cry I laughed so hard.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    That whole channel Bad Lip Reading has great stuff. They did Star Wars and The Avengers and I was in stitches. :)) Oh here's one featuring Ted Cruz. =))
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,631
    Those videos are hilarious. The guy who did the voiceover for Cruz in the Republican Debate Highlights video was the best.

    On the Republican side, we're now down to three candidates, as Marco Rubio has dropped out after being embarrassed in Florida. Looks like our last gasp for sanity on the right rests with John Kasich, who after tonight will only have one win and a delegate gap of several hundred to make up.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2016 Posts: 7,969
    dalton wrote: »
    Those videos are hilarious. The guy who did the voiceover for Cruz in the Republican Debate Highlights video was the best.

    On the Republican side, we're now down to three candidates, as Marco Rubio has dropped out after being embarrassed in Florida. Looks like our last gasp for sanity on the right rests with John Kasich, who after tonight will only have one win and a delegate gap of several hundred to make up.

    big day for Trump.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,631
    It is a big day for Trump. They are entering a stretch of the contest where Kasich, in theory, could be competitive, now that the South is more or less done voting, but Kasich doesn't have a chance to outright win the nomination, but between he and Cruz, they could keep Trump from clinching it and position themselves for an open convention.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Very impressive victories by Trump tonight. They threw everything at him over the past two weeks as I expected them to. It has been ugly indeed, but he's still standing and the movement grows.

    Everyone knows that Kasich survived in Ohio due to strategic voting by Marco's people and massive support by the party apparatus. Yet. Trump didn't do all that badly, coming in 11% and 226K votes short. He will be very difficult to stop or deny from now on, unless the Republicans decide to forfeit this election.

    That is the decision they have before them. Interesting times for them, and they should think carefully, given the implications, including Supreme Court nominees etc.

    Fascinating.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump? and please don't give me that line that he's saying what he does to get publicity and he'll calm down once he's the nominee.

    The footage of him condoning violence against protester is utterly disgusting and now this they'll be riots if he doesn't get the nominee, the man should be arrested.

    I know people who have opposing poltical views can be friends but this has gone to far this man is promoting hatred and violence and most of what he's supposedly good at is lies anyway, the man is not a good business man it's all hype purported by the man himself and it appears many Americans have bought into this.

    Anyone that sees this man as a good idea I'm sorry I have to question your decency as a human being this is comparable to someone supporting the British National Party over in the UK and I assure you I have no problem claiming those people are lacking basic humanity, a vote for Drumpf would make me think the same thing.

    Whether you think some of his policies are sound for the economy or not his character is seriously flawed and surely the people of America should see that shouldn't they?

    I had to ask because to us back in the UK we can't believe a reality TV star billionaire with highly questionable ethics is in this position.




  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump? and please don't give me that line that he's saying what he does to get publicity and he'll calm down once he's the nominee.

    Magical thinking. It's not just for children anymore.
    :))
  • Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump? and please don't give me that line that he's saying what he does to get publicity and he'll calm down once he's the nominee.

    The footage of him condoning violence against protester is utterly disgusting and now this they'll be riots if he doesn't get the nominee, the man should be arrested.

    I know people who have opposing poltical views can be friends but this has gone to far this man is promoting hatred and violence and most of what he's supposedly good at is lies anyway, the man is not a good business man it's all hype purported by the man himself and it appears many Americans have bought into this.

    Anyone that sees this man as a good idea I'm sorry I have to question your decency as a human being this is comparable to someone supporting the British National Party over in the UK and I assure you I have no problem claiming those people are lacking basic humanity, a vote for Drumpf would make me think the same thing.

    Whether you think some of his policies are sound for the economy or not his character is seriously flawed and surely the people of America should see that shouldn't they?

    I had to ask because to us back in the UK we can't believe a reality TV star billionaire with highly questionable ethics is in this position.

    What he said. Here in the USA there are many of us that feel the same. I used to wonder how a civilized nation like Germany in the 1930s could allow a lunatic like Hitler to grab the reins of power. Now I know. I implore all well intended Republicans to vote against this wannabe fuhrer. No more evading the point, no more "Oh fill-in-the-blank is just as bad." Stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Dropout-Candidates-1200x1025.jpg

    Presidential-Candidates-Billionaires1-1200x1025.jpg
This discussion has been closed.