Let's talk about Spectre's torture scene

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  • edited November 2015 Posts: 4,622
    @bondjames For sure, so much could have been done with a tense dinner scene. The whole scenario is a riff on DN anyway, set in a partially inspired YOLT lair, so why not indulge.
    Bond even says he'll take the champagne later. What happened to later Mendes?
    Instead we get needles in the face. Groan.
    And the CR torture scene of course is legit, as its a direct lift from Fleming. All the bs torture stuff we get in the continuation books and in this movie though, is lame copycat contrived imitation overkill.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    Slightly off topic, but I feel that including that scene (with that dialogue) here has, sadly, basically precluded any chance of an official COLONEL SUN adaptation any time soon, if at all. That is the most memorable scene in the novel, I can't see the picture being made without it.

    Colonel Sun is arguably the best of the continuation novels, but not a big loss for film adaptation purposes. Other elements of it can still be borrowed.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,051
    bondjames wrote: »
    I still have problems with the quick recovery, especially given Blofeld tells him something about balance or loss of motor skills or something like that.
    Blofeld BS. He's not a doctor. He's a POS. Just a fiend torturing them.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I still have problems with the quick recovery, especially given Blofeld tells him something about balance or loss of motor skills or something like that.
    Blofeld BS. He's not a doctor. He's a POS. Just a fiend torturing them.

    This is a good point. What are the odds that Blofeld has any idea what he is doing?
    But that aside I can roll with the fantasy element, that such knowledge is one of Blofeld's latest twisted hobbies, much like Stamper had supposed expertise with Chakra torture implements.
    Thus I can also roll with the fantasy element that the needles apparently had no effect other than putting little holes in Bond's face.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    A few good things I can say about that scene:

    I did find that scene fairly unsettling. I remember wiping some seat away from my forehead after the scene ended. Also, Blofeld being blown away by the exploding watch looked really good to me. Often times movies have some cheesy CGI explosion and an actor awkwardly leaping to the floor to simulate a blast. In SP, it appears a stunt man was actually yanked forcefully by wires or something to create the appearance of a strong blast. Finally, while I wasn't very keen on the return of Blofeld, it was pretty exciting hearing Waltz utter the name "Ernst Stavro Blofeld"... and the cat, I did smile when I saw the cat.

    But in the end, this scene felt completely wrong for the Craig era. Most of my criticisms for this film revolve around this notion. It felt forced and unnatural for the overall tone of Craig's films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,051
    But in the end, this scene felt completely wrong for the Craig era. Most of my criticisms for this film revolve around this notion. It felt forced and unnatural for the overall tone of Craig's films.
    Do I care? Let me think... nope! I loved it.
    :))
  • It made me cringe, but there was no consequence to it. Just felt odd.

    Blofeld goes on and on about what's going to happen, and the result is nothing. Bond gets right up, kills a bunch of guys and flies off in a helicopter.
  • Posts: 4,622
    chrisisall wrote: »
    But in the end, this scene felt completely wrong for the Craig era. Most of my criticisms for this film revolve around this notion. It felt forced and unnatural for the overall tone of Craig's films.
    Do I care? Let me think... nope! I loved it.
    :))
    You probably loved the no-socks and floods combo too! :P

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,051
    bondboy007 wrote: »
    there was no consequence to it.
    It HURT.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,633
    bondjames wrote: »
    I mean, who really likes Hospitals?

    Hospitals are meant to help people get better, but only strike fear into the hearts of everyone.
  • Posts: 12,289
    Reminds me of my dentists!!! :-t
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Reminds me of my dentists!!! :-t

    I once had a dentist with a huge knife hanging on his wall, tagged "Bill Collector Knife."
  • Posts: 1,098
    Doesn't bother me to go the dentist.......as my local dental practice is run solely by women.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Just saw the film again.

    Yes, the scene continues to be disturbing for me...the clinical....medical....dental.....feeling of it all is a bit much actually. I mean, who really likes Hospitals?

    I still have problems with the quick recovery, especially given Blofeld tells him something about balance or loss of motor skills or something like that.

    Bond's recuperative powers have anon been well night miraculous.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Did people actually cringe at this scene? The whole time I was waiting for it to actually...you know, go somewhere and be as scary and uncomfortable as others tell me it was. It felt like the best kind of torture ever; there wasn't anything especially threatening about it, nothing disorienting or even worrisome. In comparison to CR where actual massive pain was involved with the threat of more on the horizon, this paled in comparison. As others have said, it would have been saved if Bond actually had trouble getting around after he escaped, if his senses were foggy and he had trouble navigating the HQ. On my second viewing I hope my opinion improves of it, as I want to like it.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Did people actually cringe at this scene? The whole time I was waiting for it to actually...you know, go somewhere and be as scary and uncomfortable as others tell me it was. It felt like the best kind of torture ever; there wasn't anything especially threatening about it, nothing disorienting or even worrisome. In comparison to CR where actual massive pain was involved with the threat of more on the horizon, this paled in comparison. As others have said, it would have been saved if Bond actually had trouble getting around after he escaped, if his senses were foggy and he had trouble navigating the HQ.

    Hit the nail on the head. Big missed opportunity.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,117
    I loved the scene. It was so different and unique. Bond being tortured isn't new but this felt fresh and suspenseful. This was the first time I actually thought Bond was going to die. Of course I know he wouldn't, He's James Bond, but that moment of vulnerability and panic. It reminded me of the laser scene in Goldfinger. good stuff.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Murdock wrote: »
    I loved the scene. It was so different and unique. Bond being tortured isn't new but this felt fresh and suspenseful. This was the first time I actually thought Bond was going to die. Of course I know he wouldn't, He's James Bond, but that moment of vulnerability and panic. It reminded me of the laser scene in Goldfinger. good stuff.

    @Murdock, I had those exact feelings, but for the Hinx train fight. THAT had real stakes and danger for me, and I actually forgot during the course of the scene that I was watching a Bond film and thought, "oh my, this nice British man is going to die." This scene however, didn't take me there.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,117
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, Both scenes had me on the edge of my seat. Spectre is chock full of good thrills. :)
  • Posts: 1,296
    It made me kick and squirm and spill my candy and it was etherel and surreel and amazing where was the ocotospus ? Othough it was hard to watch especially when Brofeld revealed bare ankles I was chileld to the core and shaken not stirred. Madelene the n leans forward and says I love you. And I said, I love you too I love this film and not a foot wrong.

    Mendez come on back, this time pour Bond into a gold press times two even harder :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Far, far, far, far, far, far, far away.
    Posts: 42,565
    In B25, give Bond some waxing.
  • Posts: 1,296
    No I meant to mold him into something. Its a plot I wrote, a villain with a sadisitic psychosexual obsession with Bond. Remember the Bond lollipop? Featuring lickable Daniel Craig. its the same idea. Anyhows I already made a new post about how to torture Bond and his fans in the future but it received swift lockdown due to concerns about my face so could someone please create one ? I do not have the indisde track with Darkdimi.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,079
    We're all amongst friends here, are we not?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    We're all amongst friends here, are we not?
    Ah, so you see it too, my friend.
    :)>-
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,117
    You know what it's time for? ;)
    latest?cb=20130203232659
  • Posts: 1,296
    What
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    edited November 2015 Posts: 28,417
    Murdock wrote: »
    You know what it's time for? ;)
    latest?cb=20130203232659

    A lighter/leiter touch, @Murdock? I'll fetch the gasoline.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,119
    I personally loved the entire torture sequence. A true highlight of the Craig-era. It's basically a more Blofeld-esque version of the rope torture sequence from "Casino Royale". With Blofeld-esque I mean this:

    Le Chiffre was acting out of desperation and necessity. Perhaps Bond would have done the same thing if he was in his shoes. So obviously Le Chiffre doesn't mind getting his hands dirty. Actually, he was close to cutting of Bond's testicles with his own butterfly-knife. And Silva? He was acting out of pure rage.

    Blofeld however is...Blofeld. A more psychotic villain whose personal relationship with Bond doesn't let him influence his actions, his scheme. His emotions seem to be more in check than those of Silva. It is not necessary to...torture Bond and get more information out of him. But because of Blofeld's sick mind, his psychotic Mengele-like experimental curiosity I understand why he chooses to torture with remote control, with a dentist-like approach, with buttons, from a distance.

    He entirely tries to discover what happens to men when first their souls/consciousness leaves their bodies...and how death behaves shortly afterwards. It's way more 'sick' and psychotic than Le Chiffre's way of torturing.

    So this torture entirely fits the Blofeld character. Perhaps for some people the scene felt a bit 'off', but that's because they forgot the character of Blofeld. That's because they forgot how different Blofeld is from other villains from the Craig-era.

    Blofeld is way more larger-than-life than Le Chiffre. He indulges himself in more luxury than le Chiffre. He wears moccasin-shoes barefeet as if he lived in Cannes or Monte Carlo. And his bungalow in Morocco is obviously designed by one of the most expensive architects in the world, reminding us of Mies van der Rohe. Even that torture room in heavenly white fits into that. Blofeld also doesn't torture with his bare hands. Like the Blofeld from the 1960's, he uses his power from a distance, with remote control and/or buttons. Although they wisely re-imagined that, so Blofeld mainly uses his iPad.

    The chills for me happen when you actually see the entire torture happen. You see those small dentist drills entering Bond's skin. You see those small droplets of blood on those drills. Bond is suffering entirely. And obviously every man in his place would fall unconscious. It must hurt like shit. Finally, we actually SEE Blofeld torturing a nab so intensely.

    For me...this was a pure highlight of the Craig-era. The scene has received undeserved bad criticism. If you are a Bond fan, then this is stuff you would only see in a Bond film. Thus people should love this sequence. It also makes me happy to see how Sam Mendes, Daniel Craig and the entire team behind "SPECTRE" indulged themselves so much in the Bond books. And obviously they read Kingsley Amis' "Colonel Sun". Won-der-ful.
    The surprising thing is that every time I've seen the film people seem to genuinely be squirming in their seats during it. The woman next to me on Friday was covering her mouth and jumping every time the drill went in.

    And I did exactly the same :-).
  • Posts: 1,296
    My only issue is that the drill did not go in often enough. All that needed was some light classical music, a frsh cup of coffee and we would be high speed ahead to perhaps the most fidgety, take-your-balls torture grandstand showdown in the history of cinema and literture. Take a bow all involved, you've got it on your hands and it cuts me down to size to think of my next dentist trip (never say dentisit or bring this scene up). There is an empirical truth to the contents of Bond's skull and we never get in there, not ever, for the duration of the film and now Brofeld wants to take you there with a deep bean drill. Is the rest of the film a drama dream? Wait for Bond 26 to find out.
  • I think it was perfect. Bond is not a horror franchise. It was delicate, though it made me feel very uncomfortable...in a good cinematic way.

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