Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I can't imagine Bond ever been shown as weak. I can see him
    Being shown as human, occasionally doubting himself etc. :)
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks it's from Bond's POV?
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Shardlake wrote: »
    @Shardlake And that's why your opinion is irrelevant. I don't understand how one -- especially a Bond fan -- can just listen to it once and be done with it, that's very childish imo.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion like you saying Radiohead sound like a bunch of autistic 14 year olds. I respect your opinion please do the same and put your wooden spoon away.

    My opinion is relevant to me I tried to explain myself if you don't like it that is your problem, I don't like Smith and never have so me not liking the song isn't a big leap.

    Fair enough. FYI I actually do like Radiohead now, they're one of the few bands I listen to on a daily basis.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 623
    Thanks for posting that Zekidk. It hits the nail on the head. Good song or not, it's inappropriate. It's like using a Motorhead song to a Jayne Austin movie adaptation. It just doesn't work. I don't know why some people can't see it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 15,081
    Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks it's from Bond's POV?

    Well I don't think that we'll really know what the lyrics refer to in their entirety until the film is released. In that sense the film and its theme song are two sides of the one coin...so don't write if off just yet until we see what the writing on the wall actually means...
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,262
    doubleoego wrote: »
    It was. You and others. It's not an attack or anything but the point I'm making is, it's premature to start worrying if Bond will come off as weak or needy based on the song of a 23 year old who decided to write a 4 minute love song. With the footage we've seen so far and based on the comments from the cast and crew, Bond is on top form. We should trust what we can actually see what the film makers have shown us so far over Smith's song which he wrote lss than 5 weeks into filming.
    Firstly, I don't think it's a problem at all if they make Bond more vulnerable. He was spectacular at it with a strong script in Casino Royale. As for the song dropping plot hints, it is only speculation.

    My post was directed at the people automatically saying the song is bad for not only its own merits, but the entire franchise. The way I see it, Film Bond has been a symbol of the culture at large. It would be misguided to have the Bond character be unchanged from its origins while embracing the modern world. @DrGorner said it well, being shown as human (I.e. vulnerable) is perfectly acceptable.

    Back to the point you were making @doubleoego, you were right on point highlighting how the trailers have shown quintessential Bond. The major problem with the trailers for Spectre is that they have treaded little new ground since the initial teaser. Perhaps if you break down each frame, there has been an abundance of plot details. To the casual eye who isn't concerned with learning plot details, they've mostly recycled the same scenes again and again. There are a lot of details they are trying to keep secret or at the very least ambiguous. That is in contrast to Casino Royale, which was largely dealing with source material, allowing them to show the context of his relationship in the promotional material.
  • Posts: 266
    I have listened to the song many, many times now and it is growing on me. I really like the music and I don't mind the lyrics either but I always expect it to build up to a really big moment which never really happens and I'm not a big fan of Sam's voice in general. Obviously he can sing and I can see why people really like him but his voice is just not to my personal taste. But like I said I think the song is a grower so maybe I will like his voice a bit more with multiple listens.

    I haven't been on here for a while because I'm trying to avoid seeing and hearings things until the film is released so I don't spoil too much for myself. I just wanted to see what the feel was about the song after I had listened to it a lot of times.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited September 2015 Posts: 538
    The only scene that could justify these lyrics is Bond lying naked on a bed of roses in tears clutching a photo of Vesper as Mallory enters the room smoking a cigar.

    At that point…I will say, "I see where you were going with this, Sam Smith," and leave the theatre.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    So, are people really looking at the lyrics now? Because we, as Bond fans, should all know they are a can of worms and no good can come from it. I mean, has anyone stopped a moment to think whose POV was it in Goldeneye? Because I did, and this then 12 year old was terribly confused about the true nature of the relationship between Bond and Trevalyan :-S
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,117
    Just like the Moooonraker goesssss! I think people are reading a bit too much into things.
  • Posts: 12,289
    Thought Sam did not have to go so high pitched for the song in places because the music did not go higher and brassier. The song is growing on me and thelyrics are very good.

    Look forward to seeing what imagery they put to it when the movie is released?
  • There's so much hate for Sam being thrown around everywhere :-(

    I'll just say this...in a franchise so long running and held dear by so many, ANY deviation from what's expected is going to be met with cries of blasphemy.

    What I believe we have here is the first real romantic love song in the series (Louis Armstrong obviously not included). It's different, sure, the voice and melody don't immediately scream Bond...but that doesn't mean it's bad. I truly believe with some time and space the song will grow on people as it becomes more familiar. We're already seeing the first rumblings of that on social media.

    Some of my all time favourite music has come from artists I hated on first listen. Then with time they kept growing on me bit by bit and (for me at least) later blossomed into a much deeper connection than some 'instant hit' is ever going to.

    I for one think this is a really brave song choice and the fact they're trying something new is a good thing. If Eon weren't open to trying new things we'd never have had Daniel in the role and might very well be looking forward to DAD remake #6 next month.

    To summarise, you might hate this song, you might hate Sam's voice and that's fine and perfectly okay...but just take a moment, have a breather and let the thing settle for a while, you might just find it grows on you.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Speaking from my personal perspective, my enthusiasm for SP has diminished dramatically. I know it's irrational, but that's the way I feel at this point. I'm sure the film will turn me around and I hope the score will do the same, but the sheer depressiveness/god awful misery of this song (to me) has certainly taken away that eagerness I had.....I won't deny it. Even Madonna didn't do that for me. That song was crap, but it was not depressive.

    That is surprising to read. Surely, you've seen the trailers which incidentally were made after Smith wrote the song; in fact SP had done less than 5 weeks of filming by the time he was done. Everything we've seen so far in terms of quality, enjoyment and excitement clearly stands independently from Smith's 20 minute effort which he cranked out shortly after everyone came back from the Christmas holidays.

    Which is why I qualified my earlier statement by saying I know it's irrational. That is the power of music to hold sway over one's emotions, for better or worse. My reaction is visceral....it's not logical.....it's gut dislike. I'm smart enough (I hope) however to know that it is a 'feeling' or 'emotion' and I will not let it affect my enjoyment of the film one bit.

    As I said earlier, to some degree, I'm happy about this situation, because my expectations have been so deflated (at a subconscious level) that I can only have a pleasant upside surprise in the theatre when watching the film on IMAX. I will, undoubtedly, have to cover my ears a little bit for about 3.5 mins and that's about it.
  • Posts: 3,045
    @JamesBondRadio

    Fair point. I didn't like 'Bohemian Rhapsody' at all when I first listened to it. Now it's one of my favorite songs.

    But...

    I will never, never, never fancy a song with a guy singing a chorus in falsetto the way Sam Smith does. Much like I would never fancy death metal or country music!
  • Zekidk wrote: »

    But...

    I will never, never, never fancy a song with a guy singing a chorus in falsetto the way Sam Smith does.

    But...but...but...what about the BeeGees! ;-)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Speaking from my personal perspective, my enthusiasm for SP has diminished dramatically. I know it's irrational, but that's the way I feel at this point. I'm sure the film will turn me around and I hope the score will do the same, but the sheer depressiveness/god awful misery of this song (to me) has certainly taken away that eagerness I had.....I won't deny it. Even Madonna didn't do that for me. That song was crap, but it was not depressive.

    That is surprising to read. Surely, you've seen the trailers which incidentally were made after Smith wrote the song; in fact SP had done less than 5 weeks of filming by the time he was done. Everything we've seen so far in terms of quality, enjoyment and excitement clearly stands independently from Smith's 20 minute effort which he cranked out shortly after everyone came back from the Christmas holidays.

    Which is why I qualified my earlier statement by saying I know it's irrational. That is the power of music to hold sway over one's emotions, for better or worse. My reaction is visceral....it's not logical.....it's gut dislike. I'm smart enough (I hope) however to know that it is a 'feeling' or 'emotion' and I will not let it affect my enjoyment of the film one bit.

    As I said earlier, to some degree, I'm happy about this situation, because my expectations have been so deflated (at a subconscious level) that I can only have a pleasant upside surprise in the theatre when watching the film on IMAX. I will, undoubtedly, have to cover my ears a little bit for about 3.5 mins and that's about it.

    Fair enough; I see what you're saying.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 725
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mansfield wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think some people should watch the trailers/TV spots and see if Bond looks weak or needy.
    Is that directed at me?

    In any case, 2 minutes, 30 seconds does not qualify for 2 hours, 30 minutes.

    It was. You and others. It's not an attack or anything but the point I'm making is, it's premature to start worrying if Bond will come off as weak or needy based on the song of a 23 year old who decided to write a 4 minute love song. With the footage we've seen so far and based on the comments from the cast and crew, Bond is on top form. We should trust what we can actually see what the film makers have shown us so far over Smith's song which he wrote lss than 5 weeks into filming.

    But your post implies they are not related. EON chose SS, they ok'ed the whiny lyrics to market and worse, nail to the front of and introduce their film for every single person who watches SP for the next 50 years to process. Vulnerability is fine - that's human, conflicted is also fine as that's Fleming's Bond. But SS's inept lyrics about a needy, weak Bond sung in a screeching falsetto are incompatible with 50 years of film Bond. Further, this song will likely cancel out DK's opening visual credits no matter how brilliant. The noise will win.

    I hope someone in the press asks BB "what the hell were you thinking" when you chose a lyric and vocal style that ignores 50 years of your Bond's history, and ignores the tough Bond in the trailers you are now releasing to promote your latest film.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    smitty wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Mansfield wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think some people should watch the trailers/TV spots and see if Bond looks weak or needy.
    Is that directed at me?

    In any case, 2 minutes, 30 seconds does not qualify for 2 hours, 30 minutes.

    It was. You and others. It's not an attack or anything but the point I'm making is, it's premature to start worrying if Bond will come off as weak or needy based on the song of a 23 year old who decided to write a 4 minute love song. With the footage we've seen so far and based on the comments from the cast and crew, Bond is on top form. We should trust what we can actually see what the film makers have shown us so far over Smith's song which he wrote lss than 5 weeks into filming.

    But your post implies they are not related. EON chose SS, they ok'ed the whiny lyrics to market and worse, nail to the front of and introduce their film for every single person who watches SP for the next 50 years to process. Vulnerability is fine - that's human, conflicted is also fine as that's Fleming's Bond. But SS's inept lyrics about a needy, weak Bond sung in a screeching falsetto are incompatible with 50 years of film Bond. Further, this song will likely cancel out DK's opening visual credits no matter how brilliant. The noise will win.

    I hope someone in the press asks BB "what the hell were you thinking" when you chose a lyric and vocal style that ignores 50 years of your Bond's history, and ignores the tough Bond in the trailers you are now releasing to promote your latest film.

    Interested to see what DK can do with the song behind him. Thinking that there's really no imagery involving Craig that would match. Hopefully, he rips off an OHMSS style flashback through the previous 3 movies and gets on with it.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @JamesBondRadio

    Fair point. I didn't like 'Bohemian Rhapsody' at all when I first listened to it. Now it's one of my favorite songs.

    But...

    I will never, never, never fancy a song with a guy singing a chorus in falsetto the way Sam Smith does. Much like I would never fancy death metal or country music!


    just for you >:) >:)


    <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://youtube.com/embed/L9HPxT1E7VQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @JamesBondRadio

    Fair point. I didn't like 'Bohemian Rhapsody' at all when I first listened to it. Now it's one of my favorite songs.

    But...

    I will never, never, never fancy a song with a guy singing a chorus in falsetto the way Sam Smith does. Much like I would never fancy death metal or country music!


    just for you >:) >:)


    <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://youtube.com/embed/L9HPxT1E7VQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    This is one of my favourite songs actually. Saw Prince live a few yrs back and he is still awesome even at 50+.

    Having said that, I prefer Bond alumni Tom Jones 'manly' version.

    And why is this joker dancing like Michael Jackson? It's a Prince song after all.
  • Posts: 4,431
    The Atlantic link is spot on IMHO. Even if you love fragile , delicate, sensitive love songs sung by a guy partly in falsetto and this is the best song ever within that category, that does not mean that it's right for Bond. I wonder what SS knew about Bond before getting the deal. It's as if he has either ignored or did not know about Bonds musical heritage (plus that fact that this movie has been consistently billed as a "classic Bond" movie , implying that we would get classic Bond music).
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 219
    I don't hate Sam Smith. And why should I? I just don't like his singing - and I say so whithout judging it as good or bad from a musician's point. His music is not my taste, that's all. And I think the title track dosen't fit with James Bond because of his voice and interpretation. But we have to wait and see how it works in the movie. As I've said before: The executives wanted Sam Smith and they got Sam Smith.

    What really makes me think is that the people who are responsibly envolved in this franchise seem to go what they think is the safest way for making a lot of money. Like stay with the Skyfall crew, for the plot dig into Bond's past again, get the old Aston Martin on screen and book the hottest selling artist for the title track. Make it a bit like Adel's Skyfall, you know, with the piano and so.

    In the early days of the franchise they had these very successful stories by Fleming and turned them into movies. Then we had a period of more or less successful and enjoyable Bond adventures. But these days they use the momentum of, say, Skyfall, and stay with the same formula to repead the financial success. Instead of 'this is a great story/a great sript let's do a movie' it's 'we don't have a plot yet but, hey, let's make another 1 billion movie'.

    And yes, I know that's how the show biz works...
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited September 2015 Posts: 538
    patb wrote: »
    The Atlantic link is spot on IMHO. Even if you love fragile , delicate, sensitive love songs sung by a guy partly in falsetto and this is the best song ever within that category, that does not mean that it's right for Bond. I wonder what SS knew about Bond before getting the deal. It's as if he has either ignored or did not know about Bonds musical heritage (plus that fact that this movie has been consistently billed as a "classic Bond" movie , implying that we would get classic Bond music).

    Sam Smith wrote a song for Sam Smith. Not the worst singer in the world - just needed help understanding Bond. That said, I'm even starting to become intrigued by the possibilities here. Without liking the song one bit, I want to see how it fits.
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 4,431
    OK, another way of looking at it. Before we knew about SS getting the gig, we had a great thread where people nominated some great songs that they thought would be good Bond songs. If you take away the early strings (clearly added later IMHO) and just concentrate on the core of the song, if it had been released last year as an album track, does anyone honestly want to say that they would have heard it and and thought to themselves "now that would make a great song for Spectre"?
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 219
    patb wrote: »
    OK, another way of looking at it. Before we knew about SS getting the gig, we had a great thread where people nominated some great songs that they thought would be good Bond songs. If you take away the early strings (clearly added later IMHO) and just concentrate on the core of the song, if it had been released last year as an album track, does anyone honestly want to say that they would have heard it and and thought to themselves "now that would make a great song for Spectre"?

    Not me IF I would have heard it.
  • Posts: 278
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of whats just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Or maybe you won't be emotionally connected to what your viewing and wish we had the past over and over again, instead of making a film and its music for the here and now!!

    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!
    Danny Kleinman's credit sequence is astonishing, and whats more the film is too! A pure roller coaster of stunning story telling, through utterly compelling action and for me the emotional connection that has been part of many of us all for such a long time through our life, Bond Films and what this means to us! From a child to adulthood, the thrill that going to a cinema to see a new Bond film gives you!!

    Friends have faith...This will rock you and excite you in equal measure, but most of I think it make you believe in whats coming next, when the dust settles and whats left!! Very exciting times indeed!

    (I can't believe the lack of vision some have on here! This is going to a Bond film like no other, and will leave you breathless for more, so have some forward thinking vision, and stop this harking back to what's been done before, and why couldn't we have this kind of film/song/score bull!)


    Keep the faith,

    MrEon.
  • MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of whats just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Or maybe you won't be emotionally connected to what your viewing and wish we had the past over and over again, instead of making a film and its music for the here and now!!

    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!
    Danny Kleinman's credit sequence is astonishing, and whats more the film is too! A pure roller coaster of stunning story telling, through utterly compelling action and for me the emotional connection that has been part of many of us all for such a long time through our life, Bond Films and what this means to us! From a child to adulthood, the thrill that going to a cinema to see a new Bond film gives you!!

    Friends have faith...This will rock you and excite you in equal measure, but most of I think it make you believe in whats coming next, when the dust settles and whats left!! Very exciting times indeed!

    (I can't believe the lack of vision some have on here! This is going to a Bond film like no other, and will leave you breathless for more, so have some forward thinking vision, and stop this harking back to what's been done before, and why couldn't we have this kind of film/song/score bull!)


    Keep the faith,

    MrEon.

    Couldn't agree more. Very well said :-)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of whats just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Or maybe you won't be emotionally connected to what your viewing and wish we had the past over and over again, instead of making a film and its music for the here and now!!

    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!
    Danny Kleinman's credit sequence is astonishing, and whats more the film is too! A pure roller coaster of stunning story telling, through utterly compelling action and for me the emotional connection that has been part of many of us all for such a long time through our life, Bond Films and what this means to us! From a child to adulthood, the thrill that going to a cinema to see a new Bond film gives you!!

    Friends have faith...This will rock you and excite you in equal measure, but most of I think it make you believe in whats coming next, when the dust settles and whats left!! Very exciting times indeed!

    (I can't believe the lack of vision some have on here! This is going to a Bond film like no other, and will leave you breathless for more, so have some forward thinking vision, and stop this harking back to what's been done before, and why couldn't we have this kind of film/song/score bull!)


    Keep the faith,

    MrEon.

    Couldn't agree more. Very well said :-)

    +1
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 742
    MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love. Were not talking Vesper all over again, but the love that makes you change direction and walk away from what you've only ever know, and "risk it all" for that, the commitment his prepared to give to this love!! Listen to it properly after you've seen the film, and feel the emotion of whats just happened, your see and hear it very differently!?

    Or maybe you won't be emotionally connected to what your viewing and wish we had the past over and over again, instead of making a film and its music for the here and now!!

    The song is great, the orchestration has great depth and Sam's vocal is tender and telling. His telling a story of love and sacrifice this man called James Bond will make for that love!
    Danny Kleinman's credit sequence is astonishing, and whats more the film is too! A pure roller coaster of stunning story telling, through utterly compelling action and for me the emotional connection that has been part of many of us all for such a long time through our life, Bond Films and what this means to us! From a child to adulthood, the thrill that going to a cinema to see a new Bond film gives you!!

    Friends have faith...This will rock you and excite you in equal measure, but most of I think it make you believe in whats coming next, when the dust settles and whats left!! Very exciting times indeed!

    (I can't believe the lack of vision some have on here! This is going to a Bond film like no other, and will leave you breathless for more, so have some forward thinking vision, and stop this harking back to what's been done before, and why couldn't we have this kind of film/song/score bull!)


    Keep the faith,

    MrEon.

    Couldn't agree more. Very well said :-)

    I hope the movie rocks us, I truly do, but the song does not... The fact you think the song is great unfortunately invalidates everything else you said, as optimistic and visionary as it may be... and if the song fits the feel and emotions of the film then it will confirm fears of the direction started with Skyfall that require melodrama over drama, suspense and action.

    Imagine a great song being released... a Live and Let Die, an On Her Majesty's Secret Service... then no one would be bitching and we'd all be thrilled and excited.

    The cast is awesome, the previews look good, I love Daniel Craig... The writers and director have their Achille's heals and we'll see if they overcome... but no matter how much I like the movie, the song by itself will never do it for me. It's not my type of music, I don't find it epic, I don't find it romantic and it doesn't inspire or move me. I look forward to Danny Kleinman salvaging it, but wish he had help with a song I could like.

    Jesus, I love Jam
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 742
    Haha cut me off, I do like Jam though
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