SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Regarding the Austria scenes...
    If i got it right the IceQ mountain restaurant will double for the clinic, only acessible by plane/helicopter or cable car. Right?
    Then here we have another "homage" to the past movies - OHMSS Pizz Gloria.
    Basically the movie has "references" to Bond Movies from start to finish.
    This is risky. With Same Mendes i am confidente that everything will work fine, with other diretor could feel, like @PanchitoPistoles said, too Pastiche.

    for some reason they've been doing this a lot of late. Even Forster's QoS was loaded with them. I'm not sure what the deal is but at some point they should go about creating new references that stand the test of time rather than referencing them imo.
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  • Posts: 4,619
    bondjames wrote: »
    for some reason they've been doing this a lot of late. Even Forster's QoS was loaded with them. I'm not sure what the deal is but at some point they should go about creating new references that stand the test of time rather than referencing them imo.

    Exactly. If I were them, I would treat the Craig era as the second chapter of the Bond franchise and the first movie with the next actor as the first page of a whole new BOOK.
  • Posts: 4,622
    @suivez....thanks. I didn't see any mention of the persian cat in the shooting outline,(although I might have missed it) so if you've tapped into additional story stuff, good work.
    The persian cat is a welcome touch. The producers seem to be intent on making a crowd pleasing movie, but not at the expense of Mendes unique touch to filmmaking. Possibly a best of both worlds here.
    I am not saying there aren't potential concerns, but that's always to be expected.
    But all told, I do think what we are seeing is very encouraging.

    The shooting outline leak may be the best thing that could have happened, because it shines a positive light on the production, countering the awful revelations concerning problems with early drafts.

    @pachito I share your concerns regarding the cars. Its a shame that the DB10 ends up in the river. I guess that was done to work in the ejector seat gag, which I do like.
    But car in river can at least be fished out, after the fact. You figure the Q branch would be right on that.

    What Mendes is doing with the DB5 is comical. The first glimpse we get, early in the outline, I think is to show us that the car is being repaired. This foreshadows the final scene.
    How this car has managed to find it way back to the shop, after what it was subjected to at SF Manor is beyond comprehension, but then again the car's very existence in SF, was essentially beyond understanding as well.
    It seems the DB5 is a cartoonish homage, that Mendes wishes to persist with, and it doesn't need to make any sense. So there, you nitpicking Bond fans. :)

    I would have preferred Bond to drive off in a restored DB10, freshly fished from the river (Tiber was it?)
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    bondjames wrote: »
    Regarding the Austria scenes...
    If i got it right the IceQ mountain restaurant will double for the clinic, only acessible by plane/helicopter or cable car. Right?
    Then here we have another "homage" to the past movies - OHMSS Pizz Gloria.
    Basically the movie has "references" to Bond Movies from start to finish.
    This is risky. With Same Mendes i am confidente that everything will work fine, with other diretor could feel, like @PanchitoPistoles said, too Pastiche.

    for some reason they've been doing this a lot of late. Even Forster's QoS was loaded with them. I'm not sure what the deal is but at some point they should go about creating new references that stand the test of time rather than referencing them imo.

    i agree with you. Here and there we can have, and want to have, some light references to an iconic moment from the past but not more.
    For instance in QoS, and although i liked the movie a lot, the Fields "painted with oil" scene just didnt work.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    I don't know who read "the thing" or not, but one thing I'd love to see is Blofeld being played by an actor who wasn't and won't be introduced to the public until the movie releases. Is this possible, or nah?! Mark Strong in Morroco with Craig, no way?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Regarding the Austria scenes...
    If i got it right the IceQ mountain restaurant will double for the clinic, only acessible by plane/helicopter or cable car. Right?
    Then here we have another "homage" to the past movies - OHMSS Pizz Gloria.
    Basically the movie has "references" to Bond Movies from start to finish.
    This is risky. With Same Mendes i am confidente that everything will work fine, with other diretor could feel, like @PanchitoPistoles said, too Pastiche.

    for some reason they've been doing this a lot of late. Even Forster's QoS was loaded with them. I'm not sure what the deal is but at some point they should go about creating new references that stand the test of time rather than referencing them imo.

    i agree with you. Here and there we can have, and want to have, some light references to an iconic moment from the past but not more.
    For instance in QoS, and although i liked the movie a lot, the Fields "painted with oil" scene just didnt work.

    You know, I've been thinking about this some more, and since it seems like a conscious producer decision (since it's spanned multiple movies with multiple directors) I think they are actually doing it for the following reason:

    1. they know they have an iconic franchise with tons of ground breaking history that can be copied, referenced and debased, most notably with Austin Powers that really burned them and embarrassed them (who looks at YOLT, pinky rings, bald headed villains in Nehru jackets the same way again?). There are more and more credible competitors for Bond now, so the possibility of copying and shaming is quite great (note the upcoming Kingsman's movie poster ripping the iconic FYEO one)

    2. they probably feel that they should be the ones to make fun of themselves and reference themselves, and they should do it first, and their way. In that way, they take the 'sting' out of anyone else trying to do it later, and control the way the iconic reference is reintroduced to the public arena to a new generation.......rivals may then think, what's the point in copying or taking the piss now? in a way.

    That's the only sensible reason I can think for such copious references, and it makes sense then.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    I don't know who read "the thing" or not, but one thing I'd love to see is Blofeld being played by an actor who wasn't and won't be introduced to the public until the movie releases. Is this possible, or nah?! Mark Strong in Morroco with Craig, no way?

    A short "maybe" or "no way" answer:
    no way

    Something unrelated: I'm now thinking that they should have made Mr. Hinx the main villain of the movie. He and Swann are by far the two best new characters in the story.
  • I have just read the script and here are my thoughts
    Gun barrel at the start - YAYYY!!!

    I think the Mexico opening scene will be fantastic and that the helicopter escape will be very fun, and with Hoyte van Hotema we'll get some great shots on the film.

    TITLE SONG - SCENES FROM QS, CR, SF

    I think the London scenes are a bit tacky and not needed that much, maybe it will be better in the movie.
    Tanner and Bond seen on the boat - the scenes they filmed this week - pass by the old Mi6 building getting ready to be demolished and past next to the construction of the new MI6 building - maybe the blue screen will act as the MI6 construction. The two head through tunnels and get to Q's lab.

    Regarding the Rome scenes I think this will be the best part of the movie and the chase around the city and Mr. Hinx's 180 turn in the Jaguar Car.

    When Bond appears on a road in Austria, as Q tells that to M, but tells them he is in England on a highway.

    He goes to a lake and crosses the lake and then sees a lodge with a satellite dish and cameras, inside he sees Mr White dying and he gives him a picture of Miss Swann.
    He takes the plane to the clinic where he sees Madeline abducted by Mr. Hinx and his bodyguards. He chases them and appears(007) in a plane at the end of a tunnel.

    Swann and Bond then spend some time in the village later with Q in the hotel.

    They chase the 3 cars through the Obertilliach forests and the plane eventually crashes in the ally of trees.

    Later in the film the Morocco scenes, I think could be made much more interesting, the train scene, again train scenes????
    I can't wait to see the control room and the destruction of Oberhussers lair in Morocco.

    Back in London M tells Bond that the 00 section is down and then Bond goes to the old Mi6 building and comforts Oberhausser and escapes with Madeline.


    After a couple of weeks, the two (Madeline and 007) head on vacation.

    Overall I think the film will be something in between CR and SF.

    Have your say.

    All the best,

    Aleksandar
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Regarding the Austria scenes...
    If i got it right the IceQ mountain restaurant will double for the clinic, only acessible by plane/helicopter or cable car. Right?
    Then here we have another "homage" to the past movies - OHMSS Pizz Gloria.
    Basically the movie has "references" to Bond Movies from start to finish.
    This is risky. With Same Mendes i am confidente that everything will work fine, with other diretor could feel, like @PanchitoPistoles said, too Pastiche.

    for some reason they've been doing this a lot of late. Even Forster's QoS was loaded with them. I'm not sure what the deal is but at some point they should go about creating new references that stand the test of time rather than referencing them imo.

    i agree with you. Here and there we can have, and want to have, some light references to an iconic moment from the past but not more.
    For instance in QoS, and although i liked the movie a lot, the Fields "painted with oil" scene just didnt work.

    You know, I've been thinking about this some more, and since it seems like a conscious producer decision (since it's spanned multiple movies with multiple directors) I think they are actually doing it for the following reason:

    1. they know they have an iconic franchise with tons of ground breaking history that can be copied, referenced and debased, most notably with Austin Powers that really burned them and embarrassed them (who looks at YOLT, pinky rings, bald headed villains in Nehru jackets the same way again?). There are more and more credible competitors for Bond now, so the possibility of copying and shaming is quite great (note the upcoming Kingsman's movie poster ripping the iconic FYEO one)

    2. they probably feel that they should be the ones to make fun of themselves and reference themselves, and they should do it first, and their way. In that way, they take the 'sting' out of anyone else trying to do it later, and control the way the iconic reference is reintroduced to the public arena to a new generation.......rivals may then think, what's the point in copying or taking the piss now? in a way.

    That's the only sensible reason I can think for such copious references, and it makes sense then.

    That's a possible explanation.
    Anyway i trust SamM/DanielC, as i trust EON and BarbaraB/MichelGW, and they know what they are doing.
    If all the background story is well structured, the acting is good and the character development not underestimated it will all work really well.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    A short "maybe" or "no way" answer:
    no way

    :(
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    A short "maybe" or "no way" answer:
    no way

    :(

    That my friend SURELY wont be your face after you see the film.
  • Posts: 4,619
    A short "maybe" or "no way" answer:
    no way

    :(

    Don't worry. This film will be very far from being a disaster and even without the last minute rewrites the story is already much better than the stories of at least 4 of the Bond films since 1995 (TND, TWINE, DAD and QOS).
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    A short "maybe" or "no way" answer:
    no way

    :(

    Don't worry. This film will be very far from being a disaster and even without the last minute rewrites the story is already much better than the stories of at least 4 of the Bond films since 1995 (TND, TWINE, DAD and QOS).

    .. to add even more .. it HAS THE POTENTIAL to become Daniel's best and, at least one of the fan's all time favourites. Intrigue, glamour, great locations, huge action sequences,..
  • Posts: 4,619
    I disagree with that. I really don't see how this could potentially top CR but there is a chance it will be better than SF.
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    alex007 wrote: »
    I have just read the script and here are my thoughts
    Gun barrel at the start - YAYYY!!!

    I think the Mexico opening scene will be fantastic and that the helicopter escape will be very fun, and with Hoyte van Hotema we'll get some great shots on the film.

    TITLE SONG - SCENES FROM QS, CR, SF

    I think the London scenes are a bit tacky and not needed that much, maybe it will be better in the movie.
    Tanner and Bond seen on the boat - the scenes they filmed this week - pass by the old Mi6 building getting ready to be demolished and past next to the construction of the new MI6 building - maybe the blue screen will act as the MI6 construction. The two head through tunnels and get to Q's lab.

    Regarding the Rome scenes I think this will be the best part of the movie and the chase around the city and Mr. Hinx's 180 turn in the Jaguar Car.

    When Bond appears on a road in Austria, as Q tells that to M, but tells them he is in England on a highway.

    He goes to a lake and crosses the lake and then sees a lodge with a satellite dish and cameras, inside he sees Mr White dying and he gives him a picture of Miss Swann.
    He takes the plane to the clinic where he sees Madeline abducted by Mr. Hinx and his bodyguards. He chases them and appears(007) in a plane at the end of a tunnel.

    Swann and Bond then spend some time in the village later with Q in the hotel.

    They chase the 3 cars through the Obertilliach forests and the plane eventually crashes in the ally of trees.

    Later in the film the Morocco scenes, I think could be made much more interesting, the train scene, again train scenes????
    I can't wait to see the control room and the destruction of Oberhussers lair in Morocco.

    Back in London M tells Bond that the 00 section is down and then Bond goes to the old Mi6 building and comforts Oberhausser and escapes with Madeline.


    After a couple of weeks, the two (Madeline and 007) head on vacation.

    Overall I think the film will be something in between CR and SF.

    Have your say.

    All the best,

    Aleksandar

    "Overall I think the film will be something in between CR and SF."
    Personally i am thinking more between QoS (pacing, diversity of action sequences, Quantum involvement) and SF (the "espionage" discussion, new enemies in the shadows, Mi6 in perrill..)
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Guys ...
    Day of the Dead (dia de los muertos) is celebrated from October 31 till November 02, 2015, therefore they had to shot footage there in this years edition (last month), right? Or wil it all be filmed in Pinewood with extras and studio scenarios?
    .. what do you think?
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    .. also
    Zocalo Square (just Google it and see images) is way to big to be replicated in studio (but so was St Petersburg in GE and see what they did..) and it would be a shame not to actually film there...
  • Posts: 4,619
    Guys ...
    Day of the Dead (dia de los muertos) is celebrated from October 31 till November 02, 2015, therefore they had to shot footage there in this years edition (last month), right? Or wil it all be filmed in Pinewood with extras and studio scenarios?
    .. what do you think?
    I think it's safe to say that those scenes will be filmed on location but not during the actual celebration.
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Guys ...
    Day of the Dead (dia de los muertos) is celebrated from October 31 till November 02, 2015, therefore they had to shot footage there in this years edition (last month), right? Or wil it all be filmed in Pinewood with extras and studio scenarios?
    .. what do you think?
    I think it's safe to say that those scenes will be filmed on location but not during the actual celebration.
    Do you think that might have shot some footage as they dif for QoS during "the Palio"?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Guys ...
    Day of the Dead (dia de los muertos) is celebrated from October 31 till November 02, 2015, therefore they had to shot footage there in this years edition (last month), right? Or wil it all be filmed in Pinewood with extras and studio scenarios?
    .. what do you think?
    I think it's safe to say that those scenes will be filmed on location but not during the actual celebration.
    Do you think that might have shot some footage as they dif for QoS during "the Palio"?
    Yes, I'm absolutely sure they would have done this and that it was done earlier this year.

    They always get some location footage from a celebratory event setting, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it this year. It adds to the realism and atmosphere. As you said, they'll probably do it like the Palio (which was wide angle distance shots and some closeups of the race) and intersperse it with some set footage. The actors wouldn't need to be there.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 18
    The website Enstarz wrote an article about the leaks, and they stupidly put the fact that Waltz is Blofeld into the title of the article. Now if you type Bond 24 into Google, its the first thing that appears on the search page and you can see the whole title. Disgusting journalism. Hope no 'spoiler free' hounds see it.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Regarding Blofeld:
    I really don't get this character as written in the screenplay. The fact that he is Blofeld is completely an aftertought. He already has two names (Oberhauser and Stockmann) before Bond reveals at the very end of the movie that his third name is Blofeld. Why should we care??? I really really hope they fix this part.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    Regarding Blofeld:
    I really don't get this character as written in the screenplay. The fact that he is Blofeld is completely an aftertought. He already has two names (Oberhauser and Stockmann) before Bond reveals at the very end of the movie that his third name is Blofeld. Why should we care??? I really really hope they fix this part.

    If you saw the later outline
    they drop Stockmann

    Also don't take my word for it, apparently in the December version the Blofeld (not exactly) reveal happens during the dinner scene
  • Posts: 4,619
    @antovolk Thanks, I've read the outline but somehow missed that.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Regarding Blofeld:
    I really don't get this character as written in the screenplay. The fact that he is Blofeld is completely an aftertought. He already has two names (Oberhauser and Stockmann) before Bond reveals at the very end of the movie that his third name is Blofeld. Why should we care??? I really really hope they fix this part.
    The Blofeld thing is revealed I take it during the course of the film and Bond then calls Oberhauser him that name at the end. I think this isn't supposed to be the film that Blofeld is in full bloom, it almost feels like an origin for the character if I'm reading things right and the fact according to the recent outline that he survives can only mean one thing, Ernst will live to fight another day.
    Maybe Bond 25 will start with ESB escaping and be the focus of that film or they'll put him on ice and Craig's next film will be something different but they'll either bring him back for Craig's last or just wait till the next actor steps up to take the reins. It all depends if Waltz is open to revisiting the character, if not if they leave it a few entries down the line they can just recast the role if he's not up for it and put the new Bond up against the new Blofeld.
    Looking at the earlier draft when Bond looked to be quitting at the end I thought it might be an end to this timeline but looking at the new end I think this isn't going to happen now, I think Craig will be back for another 1 or maybe 2 after this. Whether they decide to give him a proper ending to the character or just phase the next actor in as Bond and continue as normal I'm not sure though.
  • Bond still quits at the end though. I'm not sure how so many have missed this.

    Madeline says she can't be with him while he's still a spy and says she won't watch him die. Then at the end instead of killing Blofeld he throws his gun away (so he's leaving his life of killing behind) and leaves with Madeline. It's a happy ending, he's getting a life like Moneypenny said ("it's called a life James, you should try it sometime"). If he's not quitting, then why throw his gun away? And why go off with Madeline (who gave him a clear ultimatum, her or the job, and said she wouldn't wait forever)?

    Plus you have the other stuff. Q seemingly being out of a job, the 00 section being abolished (although C was a bad guy so maybe they'd come back again) all the references and links to the previous Craig films (even the title sequence is apparently using images from all of them), loose ends like Mr White being tied up, Bond getting one last mission from the old Judi Dench M, etc.

    There's a real sense of finality to it all, like it's a big conclusion.

    Idk. Maybe you could have
    Blofeld escaping and Bond coming out of retirement
    in the next one but I think it could seem a bit tacked on. I still think it'll be the last Craig film.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Bond still quits at the end though. I'm not sure how so many have missed this.

    Madeline says she can't be with him while he's still a spy and says she won't watch him die. Then at the end instead of killing Blofeld he throws his gun away (so he's leaving his life of killing behind) and leaves with Madeline. It's a happy ending, he's getting a life like Moneypenny said ("it's called a life James, you should try it sometime"). If he's not quitting, then why throw his gun away? And why go off with Madeline (who gave him a clear ultimatum, her or the job, and said she wouldn't wait forever)?

    Plus you have the other stuff. Q seemingly being out of a job, the 00 section being abolished (although C was a bad guy so maybe they'd come back again) all the references and links to the previous Craig films (even the title sequence is apparently using images from all of them), loose ends like Mr White being tied up, Bond getting one last mission from the old Judi Dench M, etc.

    There's a real sense of finality to it all, like it's a big conclusion.

    Idk. Maybe you could have
    Blofeld escaping and Bond coming out of retirement
    in the next one but I think it could seem a bit tacked on. I still think it'll be the last Craig film.
    The new outline I read said that C was found to be in league with Oberhauser and in light of this MI6 is reinstated and M, Q & MP get there jobs back and Bond and Swann go on a vacation.
  • Which outline is this? The one that leaked the other day?

    In that one C was in league with Blofeld yeah so like I said, the 00 section might come back (I don't remember it saying, I just remember them revealing that C was in league with SPECTRE). But I think Bond still quits.

    He goes off with Madeline and it doesn't specifically say he's quitting but I doubt it's just a holiday either. He still throws his gun away and Madeline made a point of telling him before that she wouldn't be with him until he quit MI6, and she said she wouldn't wair forever. So when Bond spared Blofeld, chucked his gun in the river and drove off with Madeline in the DB5, I took that to mean he'd quit and he was leaving his old life of killing behind.
  • Posts: 4,619
    and Madeline made a point of telling him before that she wouldn't be with him until he quit MI6, and she said she wouldn't wair forever.
    This is exactly the reason why I believe Bond quits MI6 at the end of the outline. Although it does feel like they are making it somewhat ambiguous on purpose. Anyway, I hope he quits MI6 for real. Bond 25 with Craig but without M & Q & Moneypenny and with a more experimental tone could be amazing.
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