Would you accept a black Bond?

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  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    SaintMark wrote:
    Each movie says Ian Flemings' James Bond, and a coloured fellow would not be Ian Flemings' James Bond but different creature alltogether.

    I'm admitting right now that I've not read all of the Fleming books, so this is a question: Is there, in any book, a description of Bond that specifically says "white" "light-skinned" "caucasian"? I'd actually like to know the answer.
  • SaintMark wrote:
    Each movie says Ian Flemings' James Bond, and a coloured fellow would not be Ian Flemings' James Bond but different creature alltogether

    And that's the end of it, is it? No room for change, progression - and a talented actor who'd NAIL the role shouldn't get it because of the colour of his skin?



  • edited March 2014 Posts: 12,837
    SaintMark wrote:
    Each movie says Ian Flemings' James Bond, and a coloured fellow would not be Ian Flemings' James Bond but different creature alltogether.

    Because Roger Moore perfectly embodied Ian Fleming's James Bond didn't he? Yeah he was white and he was a posh English gent but other than that he was a completely different character altogether.

    The argument here is that they've already Bond a completely different character years ago so why does changing his skin colour matter so much?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 23,715
    Look, I don't mind a black British agent. By all means, bring him to the screen! Launch a new series. Make it good. Give him a good name. Make it a new twist on the British spy genre.
    Just don't call him James Bond.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 12,837
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Look, I don't mind a black British agent. By all means, bring him to the screen! Launch a new series. Make it good. Give him a good name. Make it a new twist on the British spy genre.
    Just don't call him James Bond.

    Yeah but by that logic shouldn't they have changed the characters name years ago? Connery was hardly Fleming's Bond by the end of his run.

    If there was a rival British spy series then I'm pretty sure most of this site would complain anyway, "so it's just Bond but black? What's the point?!". People already say that Bourne is a Bond rip off (the initials JB and amnesia apparently make him a 007 clone).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 23,715
    @thelivingroyale
    I really think we all bring a different paradigm to this discussion, being flexible in certain departments and completely rigid in others. I guess that's why nearly all of these threads are bound to end up in some kind of fuss. ;-) Obviously I'm not going to keep making my point. Three times is enough.

    I admit that many of the pro-Black Bond arguments make sense. I hope that so do some of mine.

    But I will interject one last thing. After OHMSS, it seemed as if an American actor was going to be Bond. At the last minute they changed that. Everybody kind of felt it wouldn't be right. I suppose that's where I'm at. I try to follow the lines of reasoning that are presented in this thread by members I respect, like yourself. I imagine a black actor as Bond. Would I care that much if the film were good and the performance too? In the end though, I say no. I kind of feel it wouldn't be right.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    Look, I don't mind a black British agent. By all means, bring him to the screen! Launch a new series. Make it good. Give him a good name. Make it a new twist on the British spy genre.
    Just don't call him James Bond.

    Yeah but by that logic shouldn't they have changed the characters name years ago? Connery was hardly Fleming's Bond by the end of his run.

    If there was a rival British spy series then I'm pretty sure most of this site would complain anyway, "so it's just Bond but black? What's the point?!". People already say that Bourne is a Bond rip off (the initials JB and amnesia apparently make him a 007 clone).

    Who is this "Ian Fleming's James Bond" anyway? Must be the guy in the books cause he sure ain't the guy on the screen.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 12,837
    @DarthDimi Your arguments make sense, I just disagree :)

    I actually wouldn't mind an American actor so long as he got the accent right. We had an Aussie, an Irishman and a Welshman (although he didn't sound it) so why not? I can actually see that causing even more of a fuss than a black actor getting the part though, at least over here (Britain) anyway.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    We had an Aussie, an Irishman and a Welshman (although he didn't sound it) so why not?

    You forgot the all-important Scot.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Bond's meant to be half Scottish so I let him off.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    They are all from the UK, an American is not. That's the argument there.

    Who'd have thought a thread like this could be taken off-topic?
  • Posts: 12,837
    Samuel001 wrote:
    They are all from the UK, an American is not. That's the argument there.

    Lazenby and Brosnan weren't from the UK.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,352
    The Commonwealth is good enough. Plus how close is Ireland to the UK?
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Mrcoggins wrote:
    Dimi good point well made and explained .
    Yes ditto. Dimi makes the case quite well. Personally I think it goes without saying, so I am hesitant to even pipe in.
    Bond is of white British upper-class stock. End of story. There is no wiggle room here.
    I would however encourage filmmakers to create Bond inspired characters of different ethno-racial backgrounds. Brazen ripoffs of the Bond formula would be perfectly welcome.
    A black cultural twist could work just fine.
    A Bond-like character of Asian racial cultural roots, and frame of reference might be interesting too.
    The more exciting, escapist, secret-agent, Bond-like fare out there in movieland the better IMO.

    But back to the matter of casting James Bond. Fleming said he envisioned both Roger Moore and Cary Grant as playing Bond. Why, because they both had the look that he envisioned. He initially resisted Connery as being too rough hewn, but later conceded the casting as brilliant, once Terrence Young had whipped the former milkman, lorry driver into shape. Fleming's change of heart (being a mercenary sort) was probably also motivated by the boxoffice $$$ that a Connery-Bond appeared capable of pulling in.
    In the spirit of Fleming, and the first 5 Eon Bonds cast, I would humbly insist that Eon get back to basics with the next Bond casting call, and demand that all interested thespians, male models, etc applying, have the requisite required look.
    ie tall (minium 6', preferably Connery's 6'2 at least, as Connery is the original movie template) dark-haired and handsome as hell, mature young look (30-35) and of course white. Casting call sheets generally specify the race they are looking for, as well as height, weight, age, gender.
    From this lot, select those with the right look, then weed out those who don't bring the needed danger and menace.
    Neither Rog nor Broz would likely have survived this second stage of my audition process either. As great as their films were, neither was an ideal choice for Bond IMO. In hindsight passable, but not ideal.
    Next time around, I am holding out for the next Connery or Laz. Dalts would have passed OK, although I would have thrown out the puppy eyes with Kara scene on the ferris wheel.
    The notion of a black, Asian or east-Indian etc Bond is absurd.
    Lets get back to finding the next Connery-Laz actor. Blond and bald actors may be considered, but they would have to agree to hair dye or wigs.
  • ChickenStu wrote:
    Wow. Some of the comments in here have really shocked me.

    Characters like The Black Panther, Shaft and many more - part of the EMPHASIS was on them being black. So no, a white person shouldn't play them because it negates the point of the character.

    However, Bond to me is more universal, aimed at a more broad audience. Ian Fleming has been dead for a long time and anyway - the movies have strayed far from his original works as it is. Bear in mind the character has been portrayed by a Scot, two Englishmen, an Australian, and an Irishman.

    The movies are set in a fantasy world and continuity (until fairly historically recently) hasn't been much of a concern. None of the actors who've played him really look alike as it is - the CHARACTER is the star - not the actor who plays him.

    JAMES BOND IS NOT REAL!!! THESE ARE ONLY MOVIES!!!

    This is the 21st Century yet a lot of people here have come across sounding like Alf Garnett. It's sad to read people saying that they would "disown the franchise" should a black actor be cast. But in a way it's good too. People with attitudes like that shouldn't be allowed to enjoy these films. I'm pretty sure EON wouldn't want people like this in their audience anyway.

    I'm no fan of stunt casting or trying to make some kind of statement. But I am a fan of finding someone with looks, charisma and talent to take on a part. And to me this comes regardless of skin colour.

    All you people who say they would disown the franchise should a Black Actor be cast - you may not think you are being racist but you ARE. And you make me ashamed to be a White man.

    I used to have to listen to that kind of crap from my Dad and my older brother. I don't expect to hear it in here.

    Racists are the slime of humanity. That's all I have to say on the matter.


    It makes ME sad to see this. If you are a true fan, you would know that Bond is so much more than just a character in a fantasy world. James Bond is my hero, though I´m aware of that they´re just movies but I have one of Sweden´s biggest collection of Bond-stuff and do you know why I collect Bond? Beacause he´s my hero! You are not a fan of Bond just beacause you own the DVD:s and the Blu-Ray´s. You are a Bond-fan when you turn to the book´s or the film´s when you´re feeling down and need´s to be cheeered up or when you´re going around thinking about him. This is nor racist, we´re being honest. If you´re a true fan, you would know that Bond is a white British man in his late fourties! End of story!
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 38
    If you´re a true fan, you would know that Bond is a white British man in his late fourties! End of story!

    HAHAHA!!! Brilliant! Now go tell the makers of the films that!

    btw, a fan is someone who likes something. What you're talking about sounds borderline creepy.
  • ChickenStu wrote:
    If you´re a true fan, you would know that Bond is a white British man in his late fourties! End of story!

    HAHAHA!!! Brilliant! Now go tell the makers of the films that!

    btw, a fan is someone who likes something. What you're talking about sounds borderline creepy.
    ¨

    You don´t need to laugh at me. It´s not creepy, I´m just a big fan. Just accept it. No one agrees with you.. Can´t you see it?

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Let's not turn this into a slanging match. One's fan credentials have no place in this thread.
  • No one agrees with you.. Can´t you see it?

    Believe it or not - I don't care!

    Visit this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

    That may help! B-)
  • RC7 wrote:
    Let's not turn this into a slanging match. One's fan credentials have no place in this thread.

    Your right. I´m backing out..

  • I'm ending my involvement here. The point I'm trying to make is I don't care if a black man gets the gig. Anyone deserves it if they're good enough regardless of colour.

    End of.
  • Posts: 7,653
    ChickenStu wrote:
    I'm ending my involvement here. The point I'm trying to make is I don't care if a black man gets the gig. Anyone deserves it if they're good enough regardless of colour.

    End of.

    Your opinion, and thank some deity not a fact.

  • SaintMark wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    I'm ending my involvement here. The point I'm trying to make is I don't care if a black man gets the gig. Anyone deserves it if they're good enough regardless of colour.

    End of.

    Your opinion, and thank some deity not a fact.

    So what - you don't believe in a society where people of all races and creeds can have an equal chance of doing something if they're good enough? That race SHOULD be an issue?
  • Posts: 14,892
    ChickenStu wrote:
    OK Fleming wrote the man as white. But that's the books. When so many of the films have strayed so far away from the source material - I find that a flimsy argument with which to discount the notion of a black fellow playing the part.

    Exactly. Why are MR and YOLT (which are nothing like the books they're based on) acceptable but then when the topic of a black Bond is bought up the source material suddenly matters? You could say that they're changing the character but Sean Connery did that years ago and then Roger Moore took it even further.

    If you're a complete Fleming purist fair enough but then if you're a complete Fleming purist then you would've stopped watching the films ages ago.

    I have a number of issues with both MR and YOLT, among them that they are very unfaithful to the source material. I'd have strong issues to a youthful Blofeld for the very same reason. Yes, they have strayed time and again from Fleming. But I think when there is a source material, some basic respect towards the source material counts too.
  • SaintMark wrote:
    Calling people backward or racist is a very nice thing to do, especially for somebody whop has so few counts on posts and most are in this thread. Makes me wonder what your game is except insulting people?

    It's called "standing up for what I believe in" mate. Before you try and paint a picture of me being a "troll" of some sort (I presume that is where you were going with it) I suggest you find the OTHER forum on Bond of which I am a member.

    My name there is the same as it is here. You'll see I post on a wide variety of topics in regards to Bond and have started many threads there and participated in many lively albeit friendly discussions.

    Go find it. You MAY end up even liking me!
  • Posts: 7,653
    ChickenStu wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    ChickenStu wrote:
    I'm ending my involvement here. The point I'm trying to make is I don't care if a black man gets the gig. Anyone deserves it if they're good enough regardless of colour.

    End of.

    Your opinion, and thank some deity not a fact.

    So what - you don't believe in a society where people of all races and creeds can have an equal chance of doing something if they're good enough? That race SHOULD be an issue?

    Race sometimes is an issue and that is factual. I believe everybody should be equal but that is still a long way off.
    Would Bond being coloured change that, no it wouldn't it would serve some principled nitwits convictions in their opinion and the general audience would not go to see it because 007 is what he is and there is just nothing racist about it.

  • Posts: 7,653
    ChickenStu wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Calling people backward or racist is a very nice thing to do, especially for somebody whop has so few counts on posts and most are in this thread. Makes me wonder what your game is except insulting people?

    It's called "standing up for what I believe in" mate. Before you try and paint a picture of me being a "troll" of some sort (I presume that is where you were going with it) I suggest you find the OTHER forum on Bond of which I am a member.

    My name there is the same as it is here. You'll see I post on a wide variety of topics in regards to Bond and have started many threads there and participated in many lively albeit friendly discussions.

    Go find it. You MAY end up even liking me!

    Just out of curiosity how did you postcounter drop back to 0??

    And standing up for believing is fine, just accept other peoples' opinion as well. Most Bondfans are not racist in their preference. Heck the Blond argument was tough enough without throwing in the colour of skin. ;)

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,924
    i-am-monitoring-this-thread.jpg

    ... so keep it friendly, people.
  • Posts: 7,653
    i-am-monitoring-this-thread.jpg

    ... so keep it friendly, people.

    I would oppose the character in the picture as the next 007 as well. :D

  • Posts: 1,009
    chrisisall wrote:
    The hook here is that your intent has to be one of casting a GREAT Bond regardless of colour, not just casting a non-white actor for the sake of it.

    I think you've summed it up perfectly here.

    Amen to that.

This discussion has been closed.