Skyfall Questions (Spoilers)

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I don't know if this has been asked already, but how in the world did Silva plan to get captured? Was it a lucky break that Bond tracked him down? Surely Bond wasn't meant to trace Patrice to Shanghai in Silva's plan. Was Silva planning on turning himself in later, but James Bond landed up tracking him down so he decided to get captured now instead?

    I'm sure Silva had it all figured out, and knew exactly what Bond was going to do, when he was going to do it. That's why he ensured he would escape when M was in the meeting, so he could arrive there and take her down with minimal security.

    Saying 'I'm sure he had it all figured out' isn't an answer. Have you a reason why you think that? I'm one of the school that thinks these elements of the plot are ridiculous. I think it's fair to say that alot of it is nonsense, which you can ignore, but it's nonsense all the same. The way some people describe his plot asks you to 'imagine' 50% of it, which is not what a good film does. It should leave you asking questions but not plugging holes.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    @RC7, I've never seen a perfect, flawless film that didn't leave me plugging a hole of some sort. They all have them.

    Tanner even says he has been planning this for months/years, including 'blowing up MI-6,' which happens before Bond returns to London and pulls the uranium shrapnel out of his shoulder. It's obvious that he couldn't factor something like that into his plan, so he must have changed his plan when Bond was thrown into the mix in Shanghai.

    When I look at the island scene where Bond and Silva first meet, I think Silva has no idea that Bond will be there until he actually arrives. I think Bond hops on the yacht and nobody knows he is on board until he comes up on deck with Severine the following morning. He walks past the guards, and when she says something about it not being too late to turn around, all of the guards pull out their guns and walk towards both of them.

    Silva must have had another plan to get caught, in between blowing up MI-6 and getting caught on his island. If he planned on blowing up MI-6 to eventually get caught and taken into the bunkers where he would escape on that exact day to kill M at the conference, he couldn't have factored in Bond's return; he had no idea he was alive.

    I suppose I'm arguing both sides of the coin here. Is it a plot hole? Sure. Is it a possibility that Silva just had another plan before Bond return? Absolutely.
  • As Q once said to Bond "always have an escape plan". Surely, being an ex-top-double-o, Silva would think, and plan, the same way.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    Quarrel wrote:
    As Q once said to Bond "always have an escape plan". Surely, being an ex-top-double-o, Silva would think, and plan, the same way.

    In a way, if Silva just planned on Bond doing all of this from the start, it's one of those incredibly outlandish, out there, unbelievable, next to impossible things they want us to accept, like the Harvey Dent escape in TDK: so many tiny things had to culminate into perfection for the villain to get what he wants. Silva had to know that Bond survived, would return to London after hearing reports of the attack, think on the uranium shrapnel, trace it to Patrice, have friends in the CIA who could give him his location, track him, stop him, stumble upon the coin, escape the goons in Macau, make it on the yacht, and arrive at his island, just to stop everyone and capture him.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Quarrel wrote:
    As Q once said to Bond "always have an escape plan". Surely, being an ex-top-double-o, Silva would think, and plan, the same way.

    In a way, if Silva just planned on Bond doing all of this from the start, it's one of those incredibly outlandish, out there, unbelievable, next to impossible things they want us to accept, like the Harvey Dent escape in TDK: so many tiny things had to culminate into perfection for the villain to get what he wants. Silva had to know that Bond survived, would return to London after hearing reports of the attack, think on the uranium shrapnel, trace it to Patrice, have friends in the CIA who could give him his location, track him, stop him, stumble upon the coin, escape the goons in Macau, make it on the yacht, and arrive at his island, just to stop everyone and capture him.


    But Silva didn't need to know or plan on any of that to have an escape plan in place in case he ever got captured one day. Just because Bond was the one that ended up capturing him, doesn't mean Silva planned on that happening.

    In other words, Silva had an escape plan in his back pocket in case MI-6 ever got a hold of him. Simple as that.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    @Quarrel, it's not as simple as that, though. Q even says that this was months/years (don't remember exactly which one he says) in the planning. Why have such a large plan as a 'simple escape plan'? He wanted all of it to happen. He blew up MI-6 for M to see. He hacked her computer to scare her. He wanted her to have a sense of accomplishment when he was captured, just for him to escape and have her in fear and worry again. It was his major plan all along.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    @Quarrel, it's not as simple as that, though. Q even says that this was months/years (don't remember exactly which one he says) in the planning. Why have such a large plan as a 'simple escape plan'? He wanted all of it to happen. He blew up MI-6 for M to see. He hacked her computer to scare her. He wanted her to have a sense of accomplishment when he was captured, just for him to escape and have her in fear and worry again. It was his major plan all along.


    Ok, sure, I can buy that. But why do we have to work Bond into that? Perhaps Silva planned on getting caught, or even intentially got caught, but that still doesn't mean he intentionally planned on Bond being the one to catch him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    @Quarrel, I actually proposed that a few pages back. There are other 00 agents, so I'm sure Silva planned on just getting captured in general, not necessarily by Bond. I think it's too big a stretch for Silva to just know that Bond didn't die and he would return and track Patrice by the uranium shrapnel. I think Silva just opened up enough doors to get caught in some way by a 00 - Bond or not - so his big plan could begin.
  • Exactly. That's how I saw it.

    The real question for those who want to pick everything apart (which, by the way, is not me - I loved Skyfall), if Silva can do all this stuff remotely like blow up MI-6, escape from the incredible cage they had him in, etc. - all just to get to M, then why didn't he just hack the security system at MI-6 and walk in the front door? :-)
  • Quarrel wrote:

    The real question for those who want to pick everything apart (which, by the way, is not me - I loved Skyfall), if Silva can do all this stuff remotely like blow up MI-6, escape from the incredible cage they had him in, etc. - all just to get to M, then why didn't he just hack the security system at MI-6 and walk in the front door? :-)

    I have an answer to that, and I am not the nit-picking type ;)

    I think Silva wanted to personally humiliate M first, by destroying her reputation and then killing her as an act of closure. Think back to all the way in the PTS, when Patrice stole the hard drive. Assuming that Silva had a plan in place in hacking the entire Mi-6 and drive M out anyway, I think Silva brought Patrice's information, used it to start a worldwide attack on the Mi-6 and begin his vengeance. He then blows up the building, have the committee throw M out of office after more agents being killed and then finally shoot her. Bond only got in the way, and remember, if he hadn't interfered at all, his plan would've went smoothly without a hitch.

    Remember, at the end Silva wanted both of them killed peacefully, almost as if an eye-for-an-eye type scenario. Silva simply barging in the front door and shooting her would be less fulfilling than taking the extra step in bringing her down, much like the same way she did to him a few years back when he was an agent.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    Quarrel wrote:

    The real question for those who want to pick everything apart (which, by the way, is not me - I loved Skyfall), if Silva can do all this stuff remotely like blow up MI-6, escape from the incredible cage they had him in, etc. - all just to get to M, then why didn't he just hack the security system at MI-6 and walk in the front door? :-)

    I have an answer to that, and I am not the nit-picking type ;)

    I think Silva wanted to personally humiliate M first, by destroying her reputation and then killing her as an act of closure. Think back to all the way in the PTS, when Patrice stole the hard drive. Assuming that Silva had a plan in place in hacking the entire Mi-6 and drive M out anyway, I think Silva brought Patrice's information, used it to start a worldwide attack on the Mi-6 and begin his vengeance. He then blows up the building, have the committee throw M out of office after more agents being killed and then finally shoot her. Bond only got in the way, and remember, if he hadn't interfered at all, his plan would've went smoothly without a hitch.

    Remember, at the end Silva wanted both of them killed peacefully, almost as if an eye-for-an-eye type scenario. Silva simply barging in the front door and shooting her would be less fulfilling than taking the extra step in bringing her down, much like the same way she did to him a few years back when he was an agent.

    Pretty much this. Even in the beginning, Bond simply breaks in to M's flat - no security - and waits for her to arrive home. Silva could have done this, killed M, and his plan would be complete. He wanted to humiliate her first.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    I think Silva wanted to personally humiliate M first, by destroying her reputation and then killing her as an act of closure.

    Remember, at the end Silva wanted both of them killed peacefully, almost as if an eye-for-an-eye type scenario. Silva simply barging in the front door and shooting her would be less fulfilling than taking the extra step in bringing her down, much like the same way she did to him a few years back when he was an agent.

    I don't think anyone would disagree with this sentiment, it's obvious this is what he wanted to do. What's most irritating is that the logic behind the mechanics of his plot is wildly fantastical, which doesn't really stack up with the grounded nature of the rest of the film. From the moment it was revealed he blew up a MI6 through a controlled gas leak I thought, hmmmm how unrealistic. Would it not have been more intriguing and downright psychopathic for Silva to have had a suicide bomber inside the building. It would have immediately given us a sense of his power over others and the lengths to which he would go. She said 'he knows us, he's one of us' - so why be a coward and attack from the safe haven of an island and why plump for the easy option of shrouding the logic in computer jargon?

    If he really was one of them would it not have been better to follow or include the human story? There must have been more agents that had a beef with the system and their superiors, agents who were susceptible to Silva's ruthlessness.

    He could have easily destroyed her reputation and then flown into London at the opportune moment and handed himself in. It would have made more sense that his ensuing plan was foolproof. If this was indeed the case and Bond interrupted this plan then it certainly wasn't flagged up in any way, shape or form. The logic of the narrative suggests he meant to be captured, which to me seems like bollocks. There are too many coincidences and it all happened too smoothly, with huge questions being left unanswered such as, where did his guards at MI6 go? A tea break? All a bit convenient. You can dismiss it with the argument 'not everything has to make sense' but I thought it was jarring with the overall reality (albeit hightened reality) of the film.



  • Posts: 265
    RC7 wrote:
    I think Silva wanted to personally humiliate M first, by destroying her reputation and then killing her as an act of closure.

    Remember, at the end Silva wanted both of them killed peacefully, almost as if an eye-for-an-eye type scenario. Silva simply barging in the front door and shooting her would be less fulfilling than taking the extra step in bringing her down, much like the same way she did to him a few years back when he was an agent.

    I don't think anyone would disagree with this sentiment, it's obvious this is what he wanted to do. What's most irritating is that the logic behind the mechanics of his plot is wildly fantastical, which doesn't really stack up with the grounded nature of the rest of the film. From the moment it was revealed he blew up a MI6 through a controlled gas leak I thought, hmmmm how unrealistic. Would it not have been more intriguing and downright psychopathic for Silva to have had a suicide bomber inside the building. It would have immediately given us a sense of his power over others and the lengths to which he would go. She said 'he knows us, he's one of us' - so why be a coward and attack from the safe haven of an island and why plump for the easy option of shrouding the logic in computer jargon?

    If he really was one of them would it not have been better to follow or include the human story? There must have been more agents that had a beef with the system and their superiors, agents who were susceptible to Silva's ruthlessness.

    He could have easily destroyed her reputation and then flown into London at the opportune moment and handed himself in. It would have made more sense that his ensuing plan was foolproof. If this was indeed the case and Bond interrupted this plan then it certainly wasn't flagged up in any way, shape or form. The logic of the narrative suggests he meant to be captured, which to me seems like bollocks. There are too many coincidences and it all happened too smoothly, with huge questions being left unanswered such as, where did his guards at MI6 go? A tea break? All a bit convenient. You can dismiss it with the argument 'not everything has to make sense' but I thought it was jarring with the overall reality (albeit hightened reality) of the film.



    @RC7 you are right in what you say, i think the filmakers do take the liberty that the viewer will just go with it. And i think in the end it comes down to the viewer and if your willing to go with it which some people will and some people wont, some people will ask questions and come up with anwers and some people will ask questions and think i'm not buying that. I am not saying you're right or wrong either way and i think it was intentional for Sam Mendes to do this. I personally liked the film and i enjoy thinking about possible contingency plans Silva had in place. Like @Creasy47 said Is it a plot hole? Sure. Is it a possibility that Silva just had another plan before Bond return? Absolutely.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 389
    bondsum wrote:
    Wasn't the painting stolen, @Gerard? How would Sévérine and her bodyguards explain the murdered Chinaman in the same room as that of a stolen masterpiece? And let's not forget the murdered security guard and the splattered body of Patrice at the foot of the opposing building? In reality they would have been arrested on the spot and not released until Bond was drawing a pension. The Chinese tend to frown upon their fellow countrymen being assassinated, especially when there's more than a hint of foul play with outsiders involved.

    And I agree with @TheWizardOfIce about the ease in which Silva escaped when there were heavily armed guards around him. Silva must have learned a trick or two from David Copperfield to pull that one off.

    I have a theory about that Murder in Shagai. Maybe Silva wanted to incriminate someone else, maybe someone who works on the building where Ola Rapace charcter shot the victim. Anyway I think it is not important at all, I don' t need everything to be 100 % explained .
  • Posts: 2,081
    Everything in real life doesn't get explained, either, in fact... :P
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 3,001
    bondsum wrote:
    Wasn't the painting stolen, @Gerard? How would Sévérine and her bodyguards explain the murdered Chinaman in the same room as that of a stolen masterpiece? And let's not forget the murdered security guard and the splattered body of Patrice at the foot of the opposing building? In reality they would have been arrested on the spot and not released until Bond was drawing a pension. The Chinese tend to frown upon their fellow countrymen being assassinated, especially when there's more than a hint of foul play with outsiders involved.

    And I agree with @TheWizardOfIce about the ease in which Silva escaped when there were heavily armed guards around him. Silva must have learned a trick or two from David Copperfield to pull that one off.

    I have a theory about that Murder in Shagai. Maybe Silva wanted to incriminate someone else, maybe someone who works on the building where Ola Rapace charcter shot the victim. Anyway I think it is not important at all, I don' t need everything to be 100 % explained .
    Incriminate who exactly? The building was empty apart from the guard who was killed on the ground floor. I agree that it's not important as the scene was only included as a means to dispense with Patrice and to get Bond to Macau and then onto Silva Island with the aid of some visual eye-candy, except they created more loose ends in the process. Unless I'm mistaken, one can't say the same with disposed off characters in CR as they all had a reason for being where they were.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 389
    bondsum wrote:
    bondsum wrote:
    Wasn't the painting stolen, @Gerard? How would Sévérine and her bodyguards explain the murdered Chinaman in the same room as that of a stolen masterpiece? And let's not forget the murdered security guard and the splattered body of Patrice at the foot of the opposing building? In reality they would have been arrested on the spot and not released until Bond was drawing a pension. The Chinese tend to frown upon their fellow countrymen being assassinated, especially when there's more than a hint of foul play with outsiders involved.

    And I agree with @TheWizardOfIce about the ease in which Silva escaped when there were heavily armed guards around him. Silva must have learned a trick or two from David Copperfield to pull that one off.

    I have a theory about that Murder in Shagai. Maybe Silva wanted to incriminate someone else, maybe someone who works on the building where Ola Rapace charcter shot the victim. Anyway I think it is not important at all, I don' t need everything to be 100 % explained .
    Incriminate who exactly? The building was empty apart from the guard who was killed on the ground floor. I agree that it's not important as the scene was only included as a means to dispense with Patrice and to get Bond to Macau and then onto Silva Island with the aid of some visual eye-candy, except they created more loose ends in the process. Unless I'm mistaken, one can't say the same with disposed off characters in CR as they all had a reason for being where they were.

    We don't know, but maybe someone who is or was on some way conected with the building and knows the "view to a kill" or a former Chinese/mi6 agent who is connected with the victim and the weapon ... So many possibilities.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    We don't know.

    Exactly. Would have been nice to know, not a difficult bit of exposition. I don't want to make up theories I just want to feel like it's mildly integral and not a bit of useless padding.

  • Let's face it. Skyfall has plotholes big enough to drive a truck through, sideways. However, I thought it was a very enjoyable movie, so I don't really mind. One question I do have is: What happens to the 4 million euros? Is Moneypenny the richest secretary ever or did it fall on black?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    Peppermill wrote:
    Let's face it. Skyfall has plotholes big enough to drive a truck through, sideways. However, I thought it was a very enjoyable movie, so I don't really mind. One question I do have is: What happens to the 4 million euros? Is Moneypenny the richest secretary ever or did it fall on black?

    Who knows? It's just another thing that you get to answer for yourself. Not every single thing in the film can be answered - there will always be lingering questions for any movie. If she won, I'm sure she was able to keep the winnings, just like Bond had the opportunity to do in CR.
  • Posts: 4,331
    MI6 frowns on that. I would guess that the money went to the Intelligence Service coffers somehow.
  • RC7RC7
    edited December 2012 Posts: 10,432
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Peppermill wrote:
    Let's face it. Skyfall has plotholes big enough to drive a truck through, sideways. However, I thought it was a very enjoyable movie, so I don't really mind. One question I do have is: What happens to the 4 million euros? Is Moneypenny the richest secretary ever or did it fall on black?

    Who knows? It's just another thing that you get to answer for yourself. Not every single thing in the film can be answered - there will always be lingering questions for any movie. If she won, I'm sure she was able to keep the winnings, just like Bond had the opportunity to do in CR.

    Well the money is throwaway and irrelevant to the plot. The way it's constructed suggests the guy Patrice kills isn't. If the bloke had been surrounded by random thugs you'd kind of take it with a pinch of salt and assume it's a random hit. The main problem is that Severine is in the room. Why is she there? There must be a reason? I know there's a cut scene where she gives Patrice the gun. I just don't see why she has to appear at this point. Why not have her make her first appearance in the casino? It would have made sense that she was the middle-woman so to speak, who watches over the transfer of cash on behalf of Silva. Overall the sniper scene just muddles things for me and suggests this apparently voracious pursuit of 'M' is not the only thing on Silva's mind, he still has time to organise random hits on chinese gangsters.
  • Peppermill wrote:
    Let's face it. Skyfall has plotholes big enough to drive a truck through, sideways. However, I thought it was a very enjoyable movie, so I don't really mind. One question I do have is: What happens to the 4 million euros? Is Moneypenny the richest secretary ever or did it fall on black?

    I wouldn't say plotholes, I would say "interesting unknowns"

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    I just think we could do this with any movie. Sure, all movies come with little goofs and plot holes here and there, but with us being huge Bond fans and dissecting every scene, we're finding things we normally wouldn't see if it was a regular movie we went to the cinemas to watch and enjoy.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    Peppermill wrote:
    Let's face it. Skyfall has plotholes big enough to drive a truck through, sideways. However, I thought it was a very enjoyable movie, so I don't really mind. One question I do have is: What happens to the 4 million euros? Is Moneypenny the richest secretary ever or did it fall on black?

    I wouldn't say plotholes, I would say "interesting unknowns"

    Ha ha, are you either of P+W by any chance?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    These aren't necessarily questions into the story, just little things I wondered:

    I'm curious as to what Kincade will do now that Skyfall has been destroyed.

    Also, when Severine says the word "Walther" to James in Macau, I was always think she sounds exactly like Vesper.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,700
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I'm curious as to what Kincade will do now that Skyfall has been destroyed.

    Get into the film business, play a CGI dragon in a Dennis Quaid movie.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I'm curious as to what Kincade will do now that Skyfall has been destroyed.

    Get into the film business, play a CGI dragon in a Dennis Quaid movie.

    :)) my question has been answered!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,700
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I'm curious as to what Kincade will do now that Skyfall has been destroyed.

    Get into the film business, play a CGI dragon in a Dennis Quaid movie.

    :)) my question has been answered!

    It goes kind of downhill from there, but then, in 2055, he's asked to return when Elastic Arts makes a video game "director's cut" of Skyfall, and he's one of the only cast members still around.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 33,368
    @Agent007391, starring Whoopi Goldberg's clone as James Bond, correct? And the project will be overseen by Lee Tamahori and Uwe Boll.
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