SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • Posts: 3,169
    @SJK91
    Your breadcrumbs-theory sounds plausible.

    The harddrive is not even mentioned in the last 80 minutes of the movie. And we don't know exactly what happened to it. Another proof of lazy scriptwriting.

    Besides being a tribute to Judy Dench, SF is all about M - an aging professional woman past her prime and a metaphorical mother to two opposing sons. One is good, the other is bad.

    Let me just cut this short by saying that I'm glad that we would likely not have M take centerpiece again.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,310
    Zekidk wrote:
    @SJK91
    Your breadcrumbs-theory sounds plausible.

    The harddrive is not even mentioned in the last 80 minutes of the movie. And we don't know exactly what happened to it. Another proof of lazy scriptwriting.

    Besides being a tribute to Judy Dench, SF is all about M - an aging professional woman past her prime and a metaphorical mother to two opposing sons. One is good, the other is bad.

    Let me just cut this short by saying that I'm glad that we would likely not have M take centerpiece again.
    The story of the film shifted when Silva was caught. The hard-drive was used by Silva to taunt MI6 - although the film initially led the audience to believe that it was going to be "the main thing," it really never was all along. Skyfall really is about Silva's hatred for M and his crazed passion for revenge.

    The points you make are indeed fair, @Zekidk and I get where you're coming from. It just so happens that Skyfall is my favorite Bond film, so you can understand why I don't see things the way you do. But hey, if Skyfall isn't for you, then so be it.

    And you do like CR, so that's at least something we can agree on. :D
  • Posts: 3,169
    @SJK91
    I knew all along that the story wasn't about the harddrive. That it was about M and Silva's vendetta. Still I think you can't have plot pieces like that left hanging, IMO. Like you said - the audience is led to believe that the drive is the "main thing", so why disregard it completely in the 2nd and 3rd act without even mentioning it once?

    But really - stuff like that doesn't bother me as much, as some of the other things I pointed out in my review elsewhere.
  • Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?

    I get the idea that Skyfall is basically a characterbased drama, with some action-elements thrown in. With the dramadirector, Sam Mendes I just wonder though if some directors’ visions may be too selfish. As in, they want to do something that’s so different, it may be cool for a one off but it’s not really a good James Bond movie. We saw the same thing with QoS.

    Time will tell.
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to, and more hits on the older audience. That has no connection with insulting your intelligence.

    Jumping on a train and asking to be let in like Norman Wisdom. comedy wrestling with CGI lizards. a 70's gameshow host for a bad guy, very adult.
  • Posts: 140
    My review of Skyfall:

    Overall an excellent action film and surprisingly a good Bond film.

    What I liked; I really enjoyed the overall ‘atmosphere’ of the film. There was a jaded brilliance from the visual greys and blacks that dominated the British scenes to Bond's physical breakdown.

    Performances were very good all round. Fiennes was excellent and I really enjoyed Harris (was not expecting that). Craig was very good (look I will never be a fan of his Bond purely on the visual factor but I am not a fan of Moore’s Bond and he was a handsome man) I really enjoyed his portrayal though I feel his Bond will always be a bit dour and hurt. I thoroughly enjoyed the scenes in China.
    Finally Dench’s M is no more. That is welcome.

    What I didn’t like; I have primarily two, one minor and one not quite so. Firstly, and this gripe can be applied to many Bond films and movies in general, the older I get the less tolerant I am of films whose plot relies on what I call the Domino Effect.
    Essentially plot point P cannot take place unless plot point C follows B follows A etc. These linear plot films have to make sense and in the case of Skyfall it does not. So Siva wanted to be caught by MI5? This important plot point, in relation to Skyfall, relied on Bond, firstly, removing the shrapnel from his shoulder, then finding the casino chip in the case (by the way why did Bond let the assassin kill the chap viewing the picture?) and finally the lovely Marlohe falling for him and bringing him to Silva.

    What if these points did not take place? What would poor Silva do? However this is a film and the Domino Effect is used in many films.

    The second gripe is harder to ignore. I have never been a fan of the reboot Bond idea. I have always felt it was a sop to ‘popular’ trends in films (Bourne and Batman) and that it was a borderline two-fingers to Bond’s visual history. Yet a reboot is a reboot, a clean slate. You should stick to your guns. What went before does not exist! Yet in Skyfall we have several nods to Bonds visual antecedents from Q’s quip that we do not deal in exploding pens and of course the Goldfinger Austin Martin.
    I am a contrarian in that these probably added to my enjoyment of Skyfall but as I said a reboot is a reboot. They should not be there. The reboot Bond is like a rebellious teenager who finally realises that maybe his parents were right after all.
    What I am saying, badly, is why did we have to have the reboot? Could we not have had Skyfall straight after Die Another Day. It would have made more sense and added to, at least, my enjoyment.
    Overall I enjoyed Skyfall and I don’t mind Craig as Bond anymore (though I am a fickle man).

    P.s I was brought to Skyfall under due arrest by my brother.

    P.P.S Silva really did have a legitimate case against M. She traded this 'brilliant agent' simply because he became reckless! Harsh very harsh.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    MrSpy wrote:
    It's also the plot of almost every Rocky movie and dozens of other movies. But SF actually does it well, unlike TDKR.

    Rocky did it well too!

    I honestly don't get the TDKR comparisons. The only similarity is Bond and Batman are away for a bit then return. That's where the similarites end. TDKR was more about Batman returning, SF was about Bond trying to stay get back to the top of his game after he returned.
  • Posts: 3,280
    craigrules wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?

    I get the idea that Skyfall is basically a characterbased drama, with some action-elements thrown in. With the dramadirector, Sam Mendes I just wonder though if some directors’ visions may be too selfish. As in, they want to do something that’s so different, it may be cool for a one off but it’s not really a good James Bond movie. We saw the same thing with QoS.

    Time will tell.
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to, and more hits on the older audience. That has no connection with insulting your intelligence.

    Jumping on a train and asking to be let in like Norman Wisdom. comedy wrestling with CGI lizards. a 70's gameshow host for a bad guy, very adult.
    I suggest you go back to watching endless repeats of DAD. I think you will find that far more grown up for your extremely adult tastes. It has an invisible car and everything.

  • Posts: 3,169
    I honestly don't get the TDKR comparisons. The only similarity is Bond and Batman are away for a bit then return.
    If you include the other two Batman movies there are plenty of similarities, however, like:
    Joker: playful villain with a disfigured mouth, who disguises as a cop and plans to get caught
    Silva: playful villain with a disfigured mouth, who disguises as a cop and plans to get caught

    Batman: Bruce Wayne has a fatherly figure who helped raise him in his home manor after his parents died.
    SF: They introduce us to a fatherly figure who helped raise Bond in his home manor after his parents died.
  • Posts: 116
    MrSpy wrote:
    It's also the plot of almost every Rocky movie and dozens of other movies. But SF actually does it well, unlike TDKR.

    Rocky did it well too!

    I honestly don't get the TDKR comparisons. The only similarity is Bond and Batman are away for a bit then return. That's where the similarites end. TDKR was more about Batman returning, SF was about Bond trying to stay get back to the top of his game after he returned.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to besmirch Rocky, I love those movies (except for IV).

    One ting I would criticize in SF is the recent British style of having rooms full of flatscreens and flat keypads and a character who taps keypads and stares at flat screens. Very anticeptic. It would be great if our new Q, while completely up to date and tech-savvy, is a pack rat. Once the regular headquarters are restored, we see that he has walls of floor-to-ceiling Victorian file cabinets with those rolling ladders but he knows where everything is; he can find a piece to fix or rig up absolutely anything, and his solutions are sometimes low-tech. Deaver's Q was a little like that but I would push it as something visual, and you'd have the contrast between the polished exterior and the exteriorization of what's going on under the surface in his mind; and the contrast between the "cold" control room and the "warm" workshop. Just a thought.
  • @MrSpy V is my least favourite. The first one is my favourite film though.

    Your Q idea sounds cool, I'd like to see that.
  • I have to say that the whole Skyfall thing isn't really Fleming to me. There is no mention of Skyfall in the Fleming books, no sense that Bond really had an 'ancestral home' like his dad was some lord of the manor. Yes, he was an orphan and his parents died in a climbing accident (this incident is dealt with very well in John Pearson's fictional biography of James Bond, well worth a read, though it gets ludicrous towards the end, and dealt with unsatisfactorily in Deaver's Carte Blanche, where it gets a bit Jack Ryder). Generally, Fleming left the details vague, and references to Bond's childhood with the bucket and spade in OHMSS is the sort we all remember about our summer holidays, so we can project ourselves into Bond's persona. No way can I do that with Craig Bond's background, but perhaps that's a good thing seeing as he is playing a churlish, thuggish killer a bit more than the other actors. It's like we're watching from the outside, for the first time I don't really want to be him at all - not in his looks, manner, lifestyle or frankly taste for the ladies, which seems rather dour and only ends in them getting bumped off more often than not. Even his lovely Aston ends up getting trashed.
  • Posts: 116
    @MrSpy V is my least favourite. The first one is my favourite film though.

    Your Q idea sounds cool, I'd like to see that.

    Thanks!

    Not to get off topic but yeah, "Rocky" is an absolute classic, a perfect film, IMO. But some of the sequels were darned good.

  • Hi First time poster here. Just my twopenneth worth. I really liked the film, some people say the soundtrack was uninspiring, but then again like a good special effect if you didn't notice it it's done it's job well. I liked Arnold as well but one bad point for me with arnold was in TWINE with the ski chase i thought the music was poor at that point. The lowest point in Skyfall was the way they introduced Moneypenny.. "By the way we wern't properly introduced" "it's Eve.... Eve Moneypenny" Bit of a lame surely she would have introduced herself when they first met!! Seen the film twice now and loved it both times. Looking forwards to the Blu Ray release, But i might have to go cinema one or two times more yet lol
  • Posts: 1,492
    Just come back from seeing it again.

    I think the chase on the tube is my favourite action sequence up there with the keelhauling in FVYEO and the cargo net fight in TLD.

    I really enjoyed the little details

    - the shot of Skyfall Lodge as night falls and the sound of the curlew carries across the night.

    - The female minister going beyond her brief and carpeting M. Then having to be pulled back into line by Malory.

    - Mallory catching Q and Tanner setting up a trail for Silva to follow ro Scotland.

    - The fighting Tameraire. One of my favourite paintings.

    - The music as the boat approaches Silvas island

    Lots of nice touches. Well done John Logan.

  • Posts: 6,601
    Just for fun
    tumblrmdn466fov31qk3fs9.gif
  • Posts: 5,745
    My review:

    Better than the average Bond's but not the greatest.

    Definitely will wear out the B-Ray the day I get it though, so look forward to a detailed review then.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Since Bond gets the bulldog M had at her desk from her will, she may have recently updated it, no? She could have had it signed off to him from before, or maybe not. If the latter, do you think she knew she was going to her death or that there was at least a high probability of it?
  • Posts: 5,745
    Since Bond gets the bulldog M had at her desk from her will, she may have recently updated it, no? She could have had it signed off to him from before, or maybe not. If the latter, do you think she knew she was going to her death or that there was at least a high probability of it?

    In an earlier scene, he cracked, "Oh, you've still got that bloody/ugly thing" or something like that when meeting her pre-explosion. So I think she signed it to him long before Skyfall, it seemed like a running joke between the two.
  • JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Since Bond gets the bulldog M had at her desk from her will, she may have recently updated it, no? She could have had it signed off to him from before, or maybe not. If the latter, do you think she knew she was going to her death or that there was at least a high probability of it?

    In an earlier scene, he cracked, "Oh, you've still got that bloody/ugly thing" or something like that when meeting her pre-explosion. So I think she signed it to him long before Skyfall, it seemed like a running joke between the two.

    Also, she jokes about Bond giving her interior decorating tips in the past, so I think the running joke idea is probably correct.
  • Posts: 173
    Germanlady wrote:
    Just for fun
    tumblrmdn466fov31qk3fs9.gif

    So pretty...
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited November 2012 Posts: 4,043
    I'm completely comfortable with Skyfall taking inspiration from Nolan's Batman franchise. I personally think TDK is one of the best blockbusters of the last 2 deacdes and I thought Begins was a cracking reboot for the franchise and yes a bigger inspiration for EON than Bourne for the Bond reset.

    As for TDKR I enjoyed it but I have my issues with it though I found SF quite a bit more satisfying and although it has holes I don't see some of the glaring ones already discussed that Rises has. A friend of mine who is a huge comic book fan says that it it has been discussed quite a bit in the community that Nolan's Batman is in fact Nolan's Bond and that as some have already said he's Batman in name only compared to the source material.

    Though just like Bourne people are forgetting something both this and the Bat franchise are riffing on Bond and in fact Nolan's been cribbing from 007 since 2005 for his franchise. So for Mendes to take notes from Chris's series is fine. I still recognise Bond in the film and don't think it's Batman at all, yes Silva has obviously has borrowed from Ledger's Joker.

    I think the biggest problem with allot of people is the attempt to look at Bond's past something that neither Fleming or the films have really attempted and the ending of this films could look like a bit Bruce Wayne.

    Although I don't think you can portray Bond like Connery, Moore or Brosnan played him in this day and age audiences (not fans) look for something with more depth and Nolan's treatment of the Bat films has hugely influenced that.

    That being said at the end of Skyfall we now have
    a Bond who's lost the love of his life and then later down the line lost his mentor and surrogate Mother, he's come to terms with the past and exorcised his demons where that is concerned but he's unlikely to completely trust anyone with some small exceptions and unlikely to open his heart to another woman.
    He'll seduce women for his job and accept missions with a devil may care attitude and just get on with enjoying being a 00. This I feel is where we'll start with Bond 24.

    I don't expect them not wrestle with the psychological aspect of the character, Logan strikes me of someone who'll want to bring some of the Fleming and the cinematic into his take. Not having P&W there in any capacity not even a bare bones treatment and Logan starting from scratch is going to make this the most interesting entry in years in the case of anticipating what he'll deliver.

    I can already hear the calls of bring back P&W with those who don't like what they see not unlike those who bitched about Arnold and then didn't like Newman's score and wanted Dave back (you know who you are).

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Zekidk wrote:
    @SJK91
    Your breadcrumbs-theory sounds plausible.

    The harddrive is not even mentioned in the last 80 minutes of the movie. And we don't know exactly what happened to it. Another proof of lazy scriptwriting.

    Besides being a tribute to Judy Dench, SF is all about M - an aging professional woman past her prime and a metaphorical mother to two opposing sons. One is good, the other is bad.

    Let me just cut this short by saying that I'm glad that we would likely not have M take centerpiece again.

    The harddrive is the catalyst of the story but NOT the focus of it. The focus is the relationship between M, Silvia and Bond - but we need something dramatic to instigate events.

    As I've said before it's called a Mcguffin.

    Silvia and the joker are quite different. Silvia is serious but with a noticeable dose of camp blended in. Ledger's joker is straight up twisted and I don't recall ANY member of the audience laughing (at least much) when he was onscreen. I don't remember anyone laughing at Ledger due to( intentional) mugging at the camera either.

    One similarity however is the way they are filmed in certain shots. The shot of Silvia walking away from the house fire arguably echo's Nolans joker. That's really where the similarities end.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Silvia @BAIN123?
  • Posts: 11,189
    Sandy wrote:
    Silvia @BAIN123?

    Probably got the name wrong. Grrr!!!!
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Sandy wrote:
    Silvia @BAIN123?

    Probably got the name wrong. Grrr!!!!

    First suggestion for Bond girl's name in Bond24 is yours ;)
  • Posts: 116
    I can't put into words just how sick and tired I am of hearing about those overrated Nolan Batman movies. It has "Matrix Trilogy" written all over it. Remember those heady days? Like you remember "Hammer Time" and "Disco Inferno", no doubt. But genre fans can be like overexcited puppies with a chew toy when they find something that, like, totally blows their minds! Remember when every movie being made or about to be made or even being considered for possible production had to be like the Matrix? Remember when every sci-fi or action movie that came out was "blatantly ripping off" the Matrix? Remember when anything that didn't match up to the Sacred Matrix was somehow deficient? Remember being cornered at parties by some dude with a leather raincoat who felt it was his solemn duty in life to inform you just how inspired and perfect the Matrix was?

    The younger members of this Forum might have been spared this odious experience. It was a seemingly Bottomless Pit of Annoying.

    And now? When new Wachowski Brothers films disappear almost as soon as they appear, and no one even mentions the Matrix anymore? It's just a slightly embarrassing memory.

    Now we have Christ Nolan and the Sacred Perfect Never-To-Be Questioned "Dark Knight Trilogy". Ugh.

    Wanna know what Batman was like before Denny O'Neil started importing elements from Bond? Watch the Adam West series. Seriously. Apart from the first three years or so, Batman was a colorful, fun, smiling superhero who palled around with Superman, Wonder Woman, and yes, with Batgirl and Robin. Even if Mendes admires the Nolan movies and thinks they somehow raised the bar, he doesn't have to take anything from Batman - he only has to take back what it borrowed from Bond.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,572
    Grant wrote:
    My review of Skyfall:

    Overall an excellent action film and surprisingly a good Bond film.

    What I liked; I really enjoyed the overall ‘atmosphere’ of the film. There was a jaded brilliance from the visual greys and blacks that dominated the British scenes to Bond's physical breakdown.

    Performances were very good all round. Fiennes was excellent and I really enjoyed Harris (was not expecting that). Craig was very good (look I will never be a fan of his Bond purely on the visual factor but I am not a fan of Moore’s Bond and he was a handsome man) I really enjoyed his portrayal though I feel his Bond will always be a bit dour and hurt. I thoroughly enjoyed the scenes in China.
    Finally Dench’s M is no more. That is welcome.

    What I didn’t like; I have primarily two, one minor and one not quite so. Firstly, and this gripe can be applied to many Bond films and movies in general, the older I get the less tolerant I am of films whose plot relies on what I call the Domino Effect.
    Essentially plot point P cannot take place unless plot point C follows B follows A etc. These linear plot films have to make sense and in the case of Skyfall it does not. So Siva wanted to be caught by MI5? This important plot point, in relation to Skyfall, relied on Bond, firstly, removing the shrapnel from his shoulder, then finding the casino chip in the case (by the way why did Bond let the assassin kill the chap viewing the picture?) and finally the lovely Marlohe falling for him and bringing him to Silva.

    What if these points did not take place? What would poor Silva do? However this is a film and the Domino Effect is used in many films.

    The second gripe is harder to ignore. I have never been a fan of the reboot Bond idea. I have always felt it was a sop to ‘popular’ trends in films (Bourne and Batman) and that it was a borderline two-fingers to Bond’s visual history. Yet a reboot is a reboot, a clean slate. You should stick to your guns. What went before does not exist! Yet in Skyfall we have several nods to Bonds visual antecedents from Q’s quip that we do not deal in exploding pens and of course the Goldfinger Austin Martin.
    I am a contrarian in that these probably added to my enjoyment of Skyfall but as I said a reboot is a reboot. They should not be there. The reboot Bond is like a rebellious teenager who finally realises that maybe his parents were right after all.
    What I am saying, badly, is why did we have to have the reboot? Could we not have had Skyfall straight after Die Another Day. It would have made more sense and added to, at least, my enjoyment.
    Overall I enjoyed Skyfall and I don’t mind Craig as Bond anymore (though I am a fickle man).

    P.s I was brought to Skyfall under due arrest by my brother.

    P.P.S Silva really did have a legitimate case against M. She traded this 'brilliant agent' simply because he became reckless! Harsh very harsh.

    @Grant can you add the review in the actual Review thread ( if you haven't already)
  • Posts: 774
    Not just a great Bond film but a great film in general. Well written, brilliantly acted (for the most part), brilliantly directed, brilliantly scored and perfectly shot. Reminded me a little of 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy', just with more humour and (at least in my opinion) much better.

    Honestly, one of the things I loved the most about the film was the cinematography. It was on an epic scale (I hate that word but it's the only one that seems to fit). It had atmosphere, and was so well accompanied by the score. The score and the cinematography lent the film a mood that I haven't been so engrossed in for a long time, if ever. I felt emotionally invested in the film just through the look and sound of it.

    Craig was excellent. Really captured the sophistication and brutality of Bond, the contradiction that I think is at the core of the character. Very Fleming-esque. Harris I was a little disappointed with, particularly at the start of the film. Though she definitely grew on me as the film went on, I felt that she was a little stilted. Dench was terrific as usual, while I am sad that her M is done I am looking forward to a fresh start with Fiennes.

    The smaller parts were all very well done; Fiennes was excellent, Finney was very enjoyable, Whishaw was particularly good in the first meeting between Q and Bond, and even Helen McCrory was very good in her limited role.

    Berenice Marlohe really gets my praise though. Severely limited screen time and yet what she does with it is truly impressive. I genuinely felt for her character, she had a vulnerability about her alongside her polished exterior. Scenes like her waiting with two champagne glasses, or her having scotch balanced on her head while waiting for death; Marlohe lent them depth; almost a dignity. In my opinion, she gave the best performance of the film, flashy yet reserved, steely yet vulnerable. Nuanced. Plus she's incredibly beautiful.

    Which leads to my biggest criticism of the film, that her character was so criminally underused. Completely understand timing issues, whether her scenes were necessary to the overall plot, whether characterisation of her role in Silva's operation would've undermined audience sympathy for her; but I really enjoyed her performance and would've loved to have seen more. But I suppose it might be a good thing, her limited time on screen makes me value the little that we saw all the more.

    9/10. Loved it, not just as a Bond fan but also as a fan of cinema.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,169
    BAIN123 wrote:
    [Silvia and the joker are quite different. Silvia is serious but with a noticeable dose of camp blended in. Ledger's joker is straight up twisted and I don't recall ANY member of the audience laughing (at least much) when he was onscreen. I don't remember anyone laughing at Ledger due to( intentional) mugging at the camera either.

    One similarity however is the way they are filmed in certain shots. The shot of Silvia walking away from the house fire arguably echo's Nolans joker. That's really where the similarities end.
    Both are also playful villains with disfigured mouths, who disguise as a cop and plan to get caught in order for their sinister plan to work.
    MrSpy wrote:
    I can't put into words just how sick and tired I am of hearing about those overrated Nolan Batman movies.
    No one is forcing you to read those comments.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Great review @Volante, very interesting points. You wrote a sentence I wish I would have written myself:
    Volante wrote:
    Really captured the sophistication and brutality of Bond, the contradiction that I think is at the core of the character.

    Brilliant.
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