SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Germanlady wrote:
    I have read many views, where people stated, they were not necessarely Bond fans, but enoyed this film.

    I've found this too. It's interesting because I'm not sure what that says about 'Bond'.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 6,601
    RC7 wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    I have read many views, where people stated, they were not necessarely Bond fans, but enoyed this film.

    I've found this too. It's interesting because I'm not sure what that says about 'Bond'.

    It says, that obviously by the numbers, Bond fans enjoy it and others, too, who might as well have become Bond fans now. It says, that Bond was successfully rebooted for this time and audiences.

    BTW - don't you feel at home in your own thread anymore? I thought, you people finally have enough space to trash the film, but obviously not.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Germanlady wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    I have read many views, where people stated, they were not necessarely Bond fans, but enoyed this film.

    I've found this too. It's interesting because I'm not sure what that says about 'Bond'.

    It says, that obviously by the numbers, Bond fans enjoy it and others, too, who might as well have become Bond fans now.

    BTW - why don't you guys stick to YOUR negative thread? I thought, it was made for this and leave the rest of us alone.
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4599/a-place-for-disappointed-skyfall-viewers/p7#Item_211

    Woah hold your horses. I like Skyfall, I have issues with it but I think it's great fun. I don't know how you construed my comment as negative, I said I found it interesting that that this of all the recent films seems to be the one that is finding a new audience who don't particularly care for 'Bond'. I'm interested to know which aspect of this film has really hooked people. Is it that Skyfall has thrown off the shackles of the last 50 years and created a new type of Bond film? Stop being so quick to judge.

  • edited November 2012 Posts: 6,601
    Ok, if that is so, I apologize.
    But this is your answer then, I think - plus everything else that most find appealing about it. It touches the Bond elements, without overdoing it - so it remains Bond for the fans, but its also "a film".

    MrSpy said:

    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults, with an actual flesh and blood human being at the center of it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Did anyone else find it funny how in CR M strictly told Bond to never break into her home again, yet she didn't say a thing when he did it again in Skyfall? Of course, what could she do? He was already "dead" once! :P
  • Sandy wrote:
    I thoroughly enjoyed reading your review @MrSpy. My favourite sentence is
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults, with an actual flesh and blood human being at the center of it.

    I wish I had written it!

    That's a wonderful way of putting it!

  • Posts: 6,601
    Did anyone else find it funny how in CR M strictly told Bond to never break into her home again, yet she didn't say a thing when he did it again in Skyfall? Of course, what could she do? He was already "dead" once! :P
    Did anyone else find it funny how in CR M strictly told Bond to never break into her home again, yet she didn't say a thing when he did it again in Skyfall? Of course, what could she do? He was already "dead" once! :P

    Well, even without showing it, she must have been very happy to see him alive. It would have been odd to tell him off for it. She was snappy enough about not sleeping there..
  • Posts: 3,169
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?

    I get the idea that Skyfall is basically a characterbased drama, with some action-elements thrown in. With the dramadirector, Sam Mendes I just wonder though if some directors’ visions may be too selfish. As in, they want to do something that’s so different, it may be cool for a one off but it’s not really a good James Bond movie. We saw the same thing with QoS.

    Time will tell.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?

    I get the idea that Skyfall is basically a characterbased drama, with some action-elements thrown in. With the dramadirector, Sam Mendes I just wonder though if some directors’ visions may be too selfish. As in, they want to do something that’s so different, it may be cool for a one off but it’s not really a good James Bond movie. We saw the same thing with QoS.

    Time will tell.
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to, and more hits on the older audience. That has no connection with insulting your intelligence.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 6,601
    Zekidk wrote:
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?

    quote]

    When will you people get over yourselves? For how long can it be interesting to play the victim?
  • I saw Skyfall twice over the weekend, and twice is the only way to live. I wanted to point out the end of the movie is just like the 3rd season episode of I Spy "Home to Judgment" written by Robert Culp, check it out. I wonder what Robert Culp would say?
    "In the American Midwest Kelly and Scott are on the run from an armed hunting party. They have learned the identities of some of the biggest saboteurs in America. They have been posing as ordinary businessmen and depend on their anonymity. Kelly and Scott seek refuge at a farm Kelly remembers from his childhood. The farm is run by Kelly's Aunt and Uncle whom he hasn't seen in over twenty years. They must all defend it when the farm is under siege from the armed gunmen."
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,169
    @Germanlady

    Please don't make this personal. Stay on topic instead.
    Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to
    Ahh... but how sad is that? Where should the coming generations of Bond fans come from if the Bond-movies are intended for an adult audience only? Should I be grateful that kids too could enjoy Bond-movies, back when I was a kid?
  • I don't think SF is a film you wouldn't take kids too.

    I took my sisters kid to see SF (he's 8).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Germanlady

    Please don't make this personal. Stay on topic instead.
    Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to
    Ahh... but how sad is that? Where should the coming generations of Bond fans come from if the Bond-movies are intended for an adult audience only? Should I be grateful that kids too could enjoy Bond-movies, back when I was a kid?

    I see your point, but the great thing about Bond is that there are so many adaptions with other actors everyone can find a connection to. Roger is a perfect Bond for younger kids. The more tongue in cheek stuff, while Dalton is something you have to mature into. LTK still shocks me with what it got away with. Granted, Skyfall isn't on that level, but still has some heavily dark content some parents may not wish for their children to see.
  • Posts: 3,169
    Hmm... let's illuminate the subject by help from IMDB-users. I will let it be up to people to draw their own conclusions:

    SF
    Males under 18: 2218 votes = 8,7
    Males aged 18-29: 40130 = 8,1
    Maled aged 30-44: 16334 = 7,8

    CR
    Males under 18: 2218 votes = 8,7
    Males aged 18-29: 40130 = 8,1
    Maled aged 30-44: 16334 = 7,8
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    All this talk of the old Bond gone and not to return, the version that Connery and Moore played would not work now, we can all get sentimental and stick our rose tinted specs on but Connery Bond was lacking depth and was just very cool and deadly, I'm afraid despite what Bond fans would like to see in their wet dream scenario of a film, this would look so out of place now in 2012.

    There is a reason SF is doing the business it's doing as this version of Bond is what people want to see, a more believable human being not a well dressed quip machine that shows a minimum amount of emotion. Why is it so important that he's not the person you want to be any more?

    If any adult wanted to be Bond I'd seriously think they needed help, we are talking about a disturbed sociapath with problems forming relationships with people, be it whatever model with all the tinsel and quips when it comes down to it James Bond 007 is not a balanced human being, why would anyone outside of a young boy who doesn't know better want to be that man?

    I can understand a school boy wanting to emulate Bond who doesn't know better but a grown adult really? That being said I have seen threads on Bond fan sites that grown adults post on called how have you lived like Bond today?

    I personally don't want to see Super Bond any more we've had enough entries with that 007 thank you, long live the Craig model I say, go and watch those entries if that's what you want, this is the 21st century you know.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    But Craig in SF DOES have some quips. You can tell that they've put more of the "old style" back into the character. Would Bond say stuff like "put it on red", "I've always hated this place" or "I fell into some deep water" in real life? Of course not. But we love it and I think in SF it works well. They have just interwoven it with a more meaty story and a more serious tone.
  • Posts: 116
    Sandy wrote:
    I thoroughly enjoyed reading your review @MrSpy. My favourite sentence is
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults, with an actual flesh and blood human being at the center of it.

    I wish I had written it!

    Thanks :)

  • Posts: 116
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Germanlady

    Please don't make this personal. Stay on topic instead.
    Zekidk wrote:
    MrSpy wrote:
    "Skyfall" is a character-driven espionage mystery adventure, written for adults
    Isn't that just another way of saying, that those who criticize the movie or don't like it, shouldn't be regarded as grown-ups?
    I think he means it is a film that you wouldn't take kids to
    Ahh... but how sad is that? Where should the coming generations of Bond fans come from if the Bond-movies are intended for an adult audience only? Should I be grateful that kids too could enjoy Bond-movies, back when I was a kid?

    It's one of my caveats. It did come to mind as I was watching SF. Personally, as a kid, I would have loved this. I loved The Godfather I&II and similar films. But I do think a solid, OTT-but-not-too-OTT PG Bond movie would be nice - ya know, for the kids. My feeling is: I finally got what I wanted, I wouldn't be bothered if the series went in a more crowd-pleasing direction now.

  • Posts: 116
    My take on this is that the "OTT" fantasy element in the Fleming novels has been more than thoroughly explored, and added to, but the other element, the more traditional elements of British fiction and the espionage genre, have hardly been tapped. It's great when they hit that magic balance (the early Connery's, TLD, GE) but it's obviously hard to do 'cause there are a lot of failed attempts in the series. There's a lot of mileage left in the "human" Bond. I'm going to enjoy however many more are made with this cast, in this style, with this tone. At the same time, when they refresh and delve back into the fantasy side of the mythos (as they surely will), I'll probably enjoy more than I would have if they'd just cranked out 3 more Brosnen style movies.

    And as someone who loves the books, I'm actually pleased that "Bond" doesn't automatically equal "guns/women/one-liners/cartoonish villains". There's more to the character and now people know that; I think that's cool.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,334
    @MrSpy, you can use the edit button to add more to your last post. Mods kinda frown against multiple postings.
  • Posts: 116
    Murdock wrote:
    @MrSpy, you can use the edit button to add more to your last post. Mods kinda frown against multiple postings.

    It's too late now but I'll keep it in mind.

  • Posts: 3,169
    Shardlake wrote:
    I personally don't want to see Super Bond any more we've had enough entries with that 007 thank you, long live the Craig model
    What model is that? The flawed and unstable hero, who unlike "Super Bond", often fails?

    No, thank you. I want Bond as a classical archetype alpha male always on top of his game.
    MrSpy wrote:
    I wouldn't be bothered if the series went in a more crowd-pleasing direction now.
    That's an interesting comment. The Box Office results certainly shows that it is a crowd-pleaser. To me it looks like the most critical and disappointed comments around, come from die hard Bond-fans, who either expected something different or something more.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 6,601
    But Z, even here among the die hard Bond fans, the sensus is pretty much real good. Don't make the mistake to overvalue those rather few, who make a lot of noise. Its not, that they become more people just because they storm through every thread.
    But I take it, that you are disappointed, which is sad...but the majority here is not.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Zekidk wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I personally don't want to see Super Bond any more we've had enough entries with that 007 thank you, long live the Craig model
    What model is that? The flawed and unstable hero, who unlike "Super Bond", often fails?

    No, thank you. I want Bond as a classical archetype alpha male always on top of his game.
    MrSpy wrote:
    I wouldn't be bothered if the series went in a more crowd-pleasing direction now.
    That's an interesting comment. The Box Office results certainly shows that it is a crowd-pleaser. To me it looks like the most critical and disappointed comments around, come from die hard Bond-fans, who either expected something different or something more.

    The please comments also come from die hard Bond-fans! Don't forget about that.
  • Posts: 3,169
    Germanlady wrote:
    But Z, even here among the die hard Bond fans, the sensus is pretty much real good. Don't make the mistake to overvalue those rather few, who make a lot of noise.
    And don't make the mistake of thinking that me referring to "die hard Bond fans" only apply to people on this forum!

    But yes... I am disappointed. I really wish I wasn't. I want to be in the "one of the best Bond movies ever"-crowd. Honestly, I do. But at least I know why I am disappointed. You can read my review in the review-section if you want elaboration.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Zekidk wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    But Z, even here among the die hard Bond fans, the sensus is pretty much real good. Don't make the mistake to overvalue those rather few, who make a lot of noise.
    And don't make the mistake of thinking that me referring to "die hard Bond fans" only apply to people on this forum!

    But yes... I am disappointed. I really wish I wasn't. I want to be in the "one of the best Bond movies ever"-crowd. Honestly, I do. But at least I know why I am disappointed. You can read my review in the review-section if you want elaboration.

    I know, you are not one of those, who had decided beforehand, that they would hate it.I am sorry for you.

    But with those numbers I don't think, that a majority of Bond fans worldwide is displeased. But its human, that what feels closest to our own opinion sticks out. But the word of mouth and the numbers are very clearly in favour of the movie.
    But my own son was disappointed and sad about it after his first viewing. He went a second and third time and now likes it much better.
  • I was the opposite of disappointed with SF. I was expecting a decent Bond film and I got a great top 10 one, it did more than meet my expectations.

    I was disappointed with bits of it but even in LTK (my all time favourite) has things I think could've been done better.
  • I've needed a few days to digest the film and I think I'm finally ready to write up a review.

    Instant Reactions:
    First off, I'm really glad Sam Mendes opted to take off the sound from the Columbia Pictures logo. A trend for Bond that started with Quantum of Solace and I'm glad it's continued here. The Columbia music is a big distraction in the opening of Casino Royale.

    The opening shot for this film is simply perfect and beautiful. The way 007 snaps onto screen at the end of that narrow hallway. Just brilliant. It really gave me a feeling that the 007 universe is a continuous entity and every once in a while we (the audience) are given a glimpse into it with each movie that's released.

    Right when Bond exits the darkness of the building and onto the bright streets and culture of Istanbul, I couldn't help but think of the Mombasa sequence from Christopher Nolan's Inception. That certainly isn't a bad thing though, if you're going to take ideas/inspiration from other films, take it from the great ones. Of course Mendes himself admitted that he took a lot of inspiration from one of Nolan's other blockbusters, The Dark Knight.

    I very much enjoy the way the story takes its time to reveal the main antagonist, Silva/Rodriguez. There was a certain point in the film where I thought to myself, "Boy, this is great! And I haven't even seen Bardem yet!" I think it's a great asset to the film and one I hope is used again.

    The other thing I loved right from the get-go is the Title Sequence. I just thought Daniel Kleinman really created something special yet again. Please Broccoli and Wilson, keep him on for future Bond films! He was definitely missed in the title sequence for QOS, my second favorite 007 outing by Craig.

    Story/Dialogue:
    Two words: John Logan. The moment I found out that Logan was going to be involved with Skyfall I got VERY excited. He's had a hand in some of my favorite films like The Last Samurai, Gladiator and Star Trek: Nemesis. I really think he's given us some of the most exciting and iconic sequences the Bond films have seen yet. His dialogue is smart and sophisticated, the way he describes his action sequences are clearly well detailed and thorough yet feel very organic, I really think he's the best thing to happen to the franchise since Daniel Craig. I am extremely eager to see what he has up his sleeve for Bond 24 and 25!

    Acting:
    Arguably the best acted Bond film in the history of the franchise. Everybody seems to be tailored perfectly for their character. Judi Dench gives us her best performance as M, and that's saying a lot because she ain't all that bad in CR and QOS. Albert Finney was such a treat to have in this film. Frankly, if his part really was intended for Sean Connery, I'm glad it didn't work out because there's no way Connery would come off with anywhere near the amount of charisma and heart that Finney's Kincade does. Ben Whishaw, Naomie Harris and Ralph Fiennes are pitch perfect in Skyfall and I look forward to their presence in future Bond films. ;) Bérénice Marlohe is beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. And another plus, she happens to be a really great actress as well! I love her scene with Craig in the casino and her fear of Silva really feels real and I she made me feel it also every second she was on screen. Javier Bardem is just incredible as Silva. The amount of energy and fun and passion Bardem puts into this character is just out of this world and I do not envy the person who will follow in his footsteps come Bond 24. Daniel Craig never ceases to amaze me. Just when I think I'm familiar with his take on Bond, he goes and does something I wasn't expecting in a million years! Before Skyfall, Daniel Craig was one of my favorite Bonds. You know, a little Craig here, a little Dalton there, a little bit of Moore for good measure. Well, after Skyfall Craig is my absolute favorite Bond, bar none. His performance in Skyfall makes me more excited than ever to see what Craig does in his next 007 outing.

    Music:
    I know I'm in the minority, but in my book, Thomas Newman is welcome back to Bond as many times as he'd like. I thought his work in Skyfall was simply a masterstroke. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he already has a relationship and shorthand with Sam Mendes. It definitely comes through in the film, and that's a luxury David Arnold has never really had. A highlight sequence for me is the whole sequence between Bond and Patrice in Shanghai. And of course the work by Paul Epworth and Adele on the Skyfall song is just great! I can't picture the film having any other song, and I'm not the biggest Adele fan.

    Cinematography:
    I'm on the same page as practically everybody else when it comes to this category. Roger Deakins deserves an Oscar nomination for his work in Skyfall at the very least! Every frame of this film is a work of art, it's simply breathtaking! The whole film is a highlight for Deakins.

    Direction:
    Sam Mendes really has outdone himself here. His attention to detail is inspiring and I love the sense of fun and Bond he has brought back to the franchise. Mendes first caught my eye with American Beauty and I've had an eye on his work ever since. One thing I like about Mendes, and I wish Nolan would try this out also, is he rarely uses actors he's worked with before in his movies. I think as a director it only helps you grow as an artist to continually work with different actors that will help you see things in ways you may not have thought of before. Of course, Mendes is welcome back to Bond at any time. :D
  • Posts: 116
    Zekidk wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I personally don't want to see Super Bond any more we've had enough entries with that 007 thank you, long live the Craig model
    What model is that? The flawed and unstable hero, who unlike "Super Bond", often fails?

    No, thank you. I want Bond as a classical archetype alpha male always on top of his game.
    MrSpy wrote:
    I wouldn't be bothered if the series went in a more crowd-pleasing direction now.
    That's an interesting comment. The Box Office results certainly shows that it is a crowd-pleaser. To me it looks like the most critical and disappointed comments around, come from die hard Bond-fans, who either expected something different or something more.

    Ha ha, I meant in the "high concept" way.

    You know, I really hate the Christopher Nolan Batman movies and the Peter Jackson Tolkien movies. If you know the source material, they can really stink, depending on what it is you love about the originals. I definitely feel the pain of anyone who isn't getting satisfaction from the Daniel Craig Era. For me, they're the closest to Fleming, but as I said, it depends on what you love about the books.

    Personally, I don't think this is a Bond who "fails". He's actually far more competent than the average action hero (see: The Dark Knight trilogy). Bond is played as especially smart, physically courageous, and competent in SF. He literally starts the movie by surviving a fall that would kill anyone else; and he doesn't go running hom to report in, it takes him 5 months and a good reason to shelve his seething anger. There's nothing passive about this incarnation. But that's my perspective.
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