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"I don t drink...wine."- The Dracula Thread

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,801
    I'm really looking forward to this movie.

    There's an irony to 'Nosferatu'. Murnau 'created' the character of Orlok and the events of his film because the Stoker widow wouldn't allow him to adapt her husband's book. Now, both the Murnau and Herzog films are generally ranked among the best, if not the best, of the Dracula adaptations, loose and faithful. I have hopes that Eggers' will also end up high on many lists. So by not allowing Murnau to adapt Dracula, Florence Stoker forced him to do something else, and that something else seems to be held in higher esteem than most if not all of the dozens of Dracula films and TV series floating around out there.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm really looking forward to this movie.

    There's an irony to 'Nosferatu'. Murnau 'created' the character of Orlok and the events of his film because the Stoker widow wouldn't allow him to adapt her husband's book. Now, both the Murnau and Herzog films are generally ranked among the best, if not the best, of the Dracula adaptations, loose and faithful. I have hopes that Eggers' will also end up high on many lists. So by not allowing Murnau to adapt Dracula, Florence Stoker forced him to do something else, and that something else seems to be held in higher esteem than most if not all of the dozens of Dracula films and TV series floating around out there.

    And pretty much everyone can just stick the name Dracula to any rubbish horror story so it can sell better.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,303
    It could've been even worse. Florence Stoker sued Murnau over Nosferatu, she won the case and all copies of the film were supposed to be burned as a result. Thankfully, some escaped. Nosferatu's made a really strong and positive contribution to Dracula's legacy - imagine the irony if the intervention of Stoker's widow had prevented that from happening.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    I'm reading Dracula: Sense and Nonsense, by Elizabeth Miller at the moment. Boy does it set the record straight on things.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    Is it me or is the Dark Universe still happening, maybe?
    https://www.cbr.com/invisible-man-wolf-man-leigh-whannell-next-universal-monster/

    Not directly related to Dracula, but...
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    A "new" letter of Stoker where he mentions rather self-deprecatingly Dracula has been found: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/apr/16/rare-letter-bram-stoker-early-thoughts-dracula
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    Elizabeth Miller on the dating of the novel (her argument: it's set in 1893):
    https://blooferlady.livejournal.com/37964.html
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited May 3 Posts: 15,934
    Oh darnit! Darn me back to heck! It was Walpurgis Night on the 30th of April and I stupidly forgot to encourage people here to read Dracula's Guest!

    On a side note, what's your take on the story?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    Luc Besson's Dracula:

    What can I say? Ouch. He didn't even try: this is beyond derivative, a carbon copy of Coppola's take. Maybe even dumber, if it's possible.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 5,650
    Oh wow, it really does look like Coppola's Dracula, doesn't it?

    Not sure this one will top Robert Egger's Noserfatu (although Dracula and Nosferatu are slightly different characters anyway).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,440
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Luc Besson's Dracula:

    What can I say? Ouch. He didn't even try: this is beyond derivative, a carbon copy of Coppola's take. Maybe even dumber, if it's possible.

    Crikey, Coppola should sue!

    Nice photography though..
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited June 20 Posts: 767
    Read the book lately.

    Terrible slog.

    Great character template, though, reminds me of a certain author of spy thrillers...
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    Dracula is my favorite horror novel. And one of my favourite novels, period.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,612
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dracula is my favorite horror novel. And one of my favourite novels, period.

    Mine, too.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 767
    Not for me.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited June 21 Posts: 15,934
    For me, Dracula embodies so many things: the rise of the middle class, the peak of the British empire, the struggle between modernity and obscurantism, a veiled criticism of Protestantism (I might even go as far as saying that it's a piece of Catholic propaganda, conscious or not), an eschatological story, etc. It's a rich novel.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    French review of the Luc Besson Dracula:
    https://www.franceinfo.fr/culture/cinema/sorties-de-films/dracula-a-love-tale-luc-besson-s-empare-du-roman-de-bram-stoker-et-bascule-dans-le-cliche_7392076.html

    Unsurprisingly, the reviewer says it's full of clichés. Surprisingly, there's no mention of how utterly derivative the movie ought to be: its premisse beat by beat a copy of Coppola's Dracula.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,801
    I think audiences are tired of getting one Dracula project after another. Even the somewhat "original" concepts behind Demeter and Renfield proved insufficient to draw people in, apart from the quality of the films, of course. Then there are the television series and whatnot... it's too much. Regardless of how it does things, Besson's film already feels like the answer to a question no one's asked.

    Then there's the problem of having one type of audience that craves a faithful adaptation of Stoker's book, often considered unfilmable, and another that wants to see filmmakers do something original with the material. You're almost guaranteed to always upset a number of people with your vision.

    And yes, if you resort to doing what has been done before, you are practically setting yourself up for failure.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    I'd argue that making a faithful adaptation would be original and new.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,801
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd argue that making a faithful adaptation would be original and new.

    Oh absolutely. I'm also afraid that besides yourself, me, and a handful of other people, not a lot of folks would be interested in seeing that, @Ludovico. ;-)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited July 28 Posts: 15,934
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'd argue that making a faithful adaptation would be original and new.

    Oh absolutely. I'm also afraid that besides yourself, me, and a handful of other people, not a lot of folks would be interested in seeing that, @Ludovico. ;-)

    I'm not so sure. For such iconic characters, I think a faithful adaptation might be the way to go to raise interest. Same for Frankenstein (although it's admittedly far more difficult to adapt), The Phantom of the Opera and other old horror classics.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    About the Spanish version of Dracula 1931:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/RGusWMqLcZ0?si=eSAGF-Hc_2h4crfi

    Side note: how could they mess up the Dark Universe so bad?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited July 30 Posts: 7,695
    I like Luc Besson's films in general. Granted, most of the ones I really like are from his earlier years, yet I did enjoy Anna very much. So given I like both Besson's style as well as the subject matter, I'll probably check this one out at some point.

    Having said that, a shame he didn't use his usual composer for this one, you might know him as a favourite of mine: Éric Serra. For this one he used Danny Elfman.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,264
    Ludovico wrote: »
    About the Spanish version of Dracula 1931:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/RGusWMqLcZ0?si=eSAGF-Hc_2h4crfi

    Side note: how could they mess up the Dark Universe so bad?

    It was never a great idea, we already saw how it would be with the Van Helsing movie.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,801
    That's because poor choices were made. There is still a lot of potential. Whannell's The Invisible Man could have been the start of something interesting. First a few standalone films, though. Not too much of that phase so and so stuff.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,695
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    About the Spanish version of Dracula 1931:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/RGusWMqLcZ0?si=eSAGF-Hc_2h4crfi

    Side note: how could they mess up the Dark Universe so bad?

    It was never a great idea, we already saw how it would be with the Van Helsing movie.

    I quite liked Van Helsing to be perfectly honest. Of course it's not a classy affair, but it was atmospheric and pulpy with enough homages to the classics to keep me happy. Much better than Cruise's mummy film.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,934
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    About the Spanish version of Dracula 1931:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/RGusWMqLcZ0?si=eSAGF-Hc_2h4crfi

    Side note: how could they mess up the Dark Universe so bad?

    It was never a great idea, we already saw how it would be with the Van Helsing movie.

    It was a great idea: they have the two most iconic horror monsters of all time, three if you count the Wolfman, they pretty much invented both movie franchises and movie crossovers, they have a rich pool of source material, both literary and cinematic, they already have a fanbase... It's not like they're forced to mess it up.
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