DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • With Cavill out as Superman and WW3 no longer happening it sounds as if there really is going to be a complete overhaul of DCEU casting. I think that makes Aquaman 2 and The Flash the last two films of the old guard.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2022 Posts: 23,369
    talos7 wrote: »

    Huge news, and a total reboot is probably the best thing to do even though I like the last incarnations of Supes and Batman.

    Cavil for Bond?
  • talos7 wrote: »

    Huge news, and a total reboot is probably the best thing to do een tough I like the last incarnations of Supes and Batman.

    Cavil for Bond?

    Despite the fact they had some solid casting in place, a total reboot probably is the smartest move for DC right now.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Cavill needs to get a new manager. Dani Garcia hasn't done him any favours at all.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,548
    What needs to be "recast" first and foremost is the pack of suits at WB, who are as fickle as the weather in April, and their approach to this peculiar type of filmmaking. The twists and turns that have been taken have essentially ensured that no stable continuity or DCEU "Endgame" was possible. My guess is that the money that goes in and comes out of these expensive movies was too big a hindrance to any creative enterprise. I still mourn over the loss of Snyder's Fourth World plans.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Hopefully with James Gunn running the show we may get something more cohesive and fun. The DCEU has been a mess from the very start, and WB has never been able to figure out how to salvage it. With THE BATMAN already having rebooted, this was inevitable.

    It’s hard to blame anyone, because it seemed to go all around. WB gave Snyder full creative control and he didn’t deliver. Joss Whedon was apparently being Joss Whedon. Ray Fisher had an ego problem. Patty Jenkins is hit and miss with her Wonder Woman entries. Ben Affleck needed to drop out (aside from cameos) for the sake of his mental health. Cavill doesn’t play ball. Ezra Miller is a psychopath. The guy from Discovery company took over and is burning everything to the ground beyond DC stuff.

    What a wild timeline.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,957
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.

    How do you mean? Not sure I’ve been following it very closely.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    mtm wrote: »
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.

    How do you mean? Not sure I’ve been following it very closely.

    I am not the biggest Cavill fan, but from what I hear from ppl who have worked with him, he's the genuine article.

    In fact, a very good friend of mine co-starred with Cavill in The Immortal and The Tudors and said he's the nicest actor he's worked with. To this day they've remained friends.

    I actually feel for him: the studio did ask him to announce his return. He does so.

    Then his agent was able to release him from a successful television series (which was lucrative for both Henry and his team).

    Then new bosses come in.

    Then...he's fired.

    It's all part of the biz and it's very cold.

    But as far as Cavill is concerned, anecdotally, the guy is a team player and seemingly a genuine person in a very disingenuous business.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,548
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.

    How do you mean? Not sure I’ve been following it very closely.

    I am not the biggest Cavill fan, but from what I hear from ppl who have worked with him, he's the genuine article.

    In fact, a very good friend of mine co-starred with Cavill in The Immortal and The Tudors and said he's the nicest actor he's worked with. To this day they've remained friends.

    I actually feel for him: the studio did ask him to announce his return. He does so.

    Then his agent was able to release him from a successful television series (which was lucrative for both Henry and his team).

    Then new bosses come in.

    Then...he's fired.

    It's all part of the biz and it's very cold.

    But as far as Cavill is concerned, anecdotally, the guy is a team player and seemingly a genuine person in a very disingenuous business.

    That's actually pleasant to read. Cavill always looks committed and nice from behind-the-scenes material that I've seen. Then again, actors don't necessarily stop acting behind the scenes, so there's always a mild level of distrust involved as well. ;-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,957
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.

    How do you mean? Not sure I’ve been following it very closely.


    In fact, a very good friend of mine co-starred with Cavill in The Immortal and The Tudors and said he's the nicest actor he's worked with. To this day they've remained friends.

    Is your friend's name Alan? :)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,980
    His statement was incredibly gracious.
  • Saddened by the news, however inevitable it may have been.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    mtm wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Cavill is building himself a reputation for being demanding and not loyal. There’s no way Eon will want to work with that guy.

    How do you mean? Not sure I’ve been following it very closely.


    In fact, a very good friend of mine co-starred with Cavill in The Immortal and The Tudors and said he's the nicest actor he's worked with. To this day they've remained friends.

    Is your friend's name Alan? :)

    As McClane said to Argyl: you’re very fast @mtm
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,548
    Hopefully with James Gunn running the show we may get something more cohesive and fun. The DCEU has been a mess from the very start, and WB has never been able to figure out how to salvage it. With THE BATMAN already having rebooted, this was inevitable.

    It’s hard to blame anyone, because it seemed to go all around. WB gave Snyder full creative control and he didn’t deliver. Joss Whedon was apparently being Joss Whedon. Ray Fisher had an ego problem. Patty Jenkins is hit and miss with her Wonder Woman entries. Ben Affleck needed to drop out (aside from cameos) for the sake of his mental health. Cavill doesn’t play ball. Ezra Miller is a psychopath. The guy from Discovery company took over and is burning everything to the ground beyond DC stuff.

    What a wild timeline.

    I know I am not representing the majority opinion, but I felt that Snyder had some great ideas. Dark? Yes. Typical fun-for-the-whole-family entertainment? No. But good stuff, nevertheless. He stepped out too soon for me; I wanted to keep peeling that onion a bit longer. But now it seems that pretty much everything in the DCEU is fizzeling out. I regret that, especially because of the cast. But fine, they can start anew. The only thing I don't want is a blatant copy of the happy MCU. Since these films cost colossal amounts of money, however, another dark series is most likely out of the question.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    It didn’t go down exactly like that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Hopefully with James Gunn running the show we may get something more cohesive and fun. The DCEU has been a mess from the very start, and WB has never been able to figure out how to salvage it. With THE BATMAN already having rebooted, this was inevitable.

    It’s hard to blame anyone, because it seemed to go all around. WB gave Snyder full creative control and he didn’t deliver. Joss Whedon was apparently being Joss Whedon. Ray Fisher had an ego problem. Patty Jenkins is hit and miss with her Wonder Woman entries. Ben Affleck needed to drop out (aside from cameos) for the sake of his mental health. Cavill doesn’t play ball. Ezra Miller is a psychopath. The guy from Discovery company took over and is burning everything to the ground beyond DC stuff.

    What a wild timeline.

    I know I am not representing the majority opinion, but I felt that Snyder had some great ideas. Dark? Yes. Typical fun-for-the-whole-family entertainment? No. But good stuff, nevertheless. He stepped out too soon for me; I wanted to keep peeling that onion a bit longer. But now it seems that pretty much everything in the DCEU is fizzeling out. I regret that, especially because of the cast. But fine, they can start anew. The only thing I don't want is a blatant copy of the happy MCU. Since these films cost colossal amounts of money, however, another dark series is most likely out of the question.

    I think the best model would be Bruce Tim’s DCAU, where the projects can take place in the same universe but largely remain separate (aside from an occasional crossover) without any gimmicky hooks for other projects. BATMAN, SUPERMAN, BATMAN BEYOND, and JUSTICE LEAGUE all felt like very distinct shows but were still cohesive.

    Theoretically, THE BATMAN series with Pattinson will remain their own thing without cramming in stuff from other films, and then maybe they can do a JUSTICE LEAGUE film with whoever the new Superman, Wonder Woman, etc will be, but that will remain exclusive to the JL films so they’ll more special that way.

    Having watched WAKANDA FOREVER, I liked it but thought it could have done away with the the extra characters that were inserted to promote other MCU stuff like IRON HEART, not feeling integral to the main story. That’s the kind of over-saturation a new DCU should avoid.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 8,034
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,980
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.

    Absolutely…
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    Anyway, as I said before, I think it's a major bummer that Cavill is not going to get a standalone film again. He's very good in Man Of Steel.

    If they're starting from scratch again, I fear it's too late for any sort of major impact to be made. Superhero movies feel like ten-a-penny westerns now, just with massively inflated costs and therefore inflated risks. Standing out is going to be difficult, even for a new Superman.

    It's why I thought just making standalone films with the current cast would have been the better option, for now.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.

    So he quit rather than stick around. Doesn’t sound so loyal. Eon wouldn’t like that.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.

    So he quit rather than stick around. Doesn’t sound so loyal. Eon wouldn’t like that.

    Not pursuing a project that they love because someone is changing it beyond recognition is not something I'd hold against an individual, personally.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,548
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Hopefully with James Gunn running the show we may get something more cohesive and fun. The DCEU has been a mess from the very start, and WB has never been able to figure out how to salvage it. With THE BATMAN already having rebooted, this was inevitable.

    It’s hard to blame anyone, because it seemed to go all around. WB gave Snyder full creative control and he didn’t deliver. Joss Whedon was apparently being Joss Whedon. Ray Fisher had an ego problem. Patty Jenkins is hit and miss with her Wonder Woman entries. Ben Affleck needed to drop out (aside from cameos) for the sake of his mental health. Cavill doesn’t play ball. Ezra Miller is a psychopath. The guy from Discovery company took over and is burning everything to the ground beyond DC stuff.

    What a wild timeline.

    I know I am not representing the majority opinion, but I felt that Snyder had some great ideas. Dark? Yes. Typical fun-for-the-whole-family entertainment? No. But good stuff, nevertheless. He stepped out too soon for me; I wanted to keep peeling that onion a bit longer. But now it seems that pretty much everything in the DCEU is fizzeling out. I regret that, especially because of the cast. But fine, they can start anew. The only thing I don't want is a blatant copy of the happy MCU. Since these films cost colossal amounts of money, however, another dark series is most likely out of the question.

    I think the best model would be Bruce Tim’s DCAU, where the projects can take place in the same universe but largely remain separate (aside from an occasional crossover) without any gimmicky hooks for other projects. BATMAN, SUPERMAN, BATMAN BEYOND, and JUSTICE LEAGUE all felt like very distinct shows but were still cohesive.

    Theoretically, THE BATMAN series with Pattinson will remain their own thing without cramming in stuff from other films, and then maybe they can do a JUSTICE LEAGUE film with whoever the new Superman, Wonder Woman, etc will be, but that will remain exclusive to the JL films so they’ll more special that way.

    Having watched WAKANDA FOREVER, I liked it but thought it could have done away with the the extra characters that were inserted to promote other MCU stuff like IRON HEART, not feeling integral to the main story. That’s the kind of over-saturation a new DCU should avoid.

    I adore Bruce Timm's DCAU but we may be overestimating its potential as a template for a live-action series that is supposed to lure the big masses. Don't get me wrong, to go there might be the spark of genius we've been waiting for since Nolan wrapped up his trilogy (and some even before that.) I'm just not sure how many people besides us, Timm & Dini cultists, would be interested in that specific iteration of the DC universe. They can certainly try -- and I'd be all for it. The Arkham games did well, so who knows...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,502
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.

    So he quit rather than stick around. Doesn’t sound so loyal. Eon wouldn’t like that.

    There were many moving parts, @MakeshiftPython and I think you’re giving too much credit to an actor having this must clout that he could quit his contractual obligations and not get sued. Cavill has a team of advisors, and yes there was an opportunity for them to leave The Witcher. Unfortunately for the actor, he and his advisors were somewhat blindsided by the changes at WB. But if Cavill was the spoilt brute who just quit a series while under contract, then the producers of The Witcher could sue him. But from what I heard, the executives on The Witcher made the separation amicable (as in he had the possibility of returning to the SM character and they didn’t put up obstacles (as another network did to Pierce Brosnan way back in ‘86/87)).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,957
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    Did he though? There was never an actual film down for production, was there? I guess that's as far as we know, anyway. And I guess The Witcher people need plenty of notice, but it seems a bit odd to drop a job for one which has no director or script, let alone shooting dates.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Cavill ditched THE WITCHER in order to do more Superman. Then he gets fired from Superman. I call that karma.

    No, he didn't. From what I heard, it seemed like his departure from The Witcher had a lot more to do with creative issues than anything to do with WB, shown largely by the fact that he didn't have a Superman contract when he decided to quit the role in the Netflix show.

    So he quit rather than stick around. Doesn’t sound so loyal. Eon wouldn’t like that.

    Not pursuing a project that they love because someone is changing it beyond recognition is not something I'd hold against an individual, personally.

    I’m thinking with a producer’s mindset. What reasons are there to not hire Cavill? It’s not fair, but we see how Hollywood works.

    Even without all that, Cavill has already done too many high profile blockbuster films to be considered for Bond.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,730

    =))

    It was revenge for Cavill leaving The Witcher, and a lot of other things. And there was nothing that we could do about it. The Witcher was a made man, and Cavill wasn't. And we had to sit still and take it. It was real Hollywood backstabbing. They even had Cavill shoot a cameo in Black Adam and announce a new Superman film so that his mother wouldn't go to his next premiere out of sheer embarrassment.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,957
    Anyway, as I said before, I think it's a major bummer that Cavill is not going to get a standalone film again. He's very good in Man Of Steel.

    If they're starting from scratch again, I fear it's too late for any sort of major impact to be made. Superhero movies feel like ten-a-penny westerns now, just with massively inflated costs and therefore inflated risks. Standing out is going to be difficult, even for a new Superman.

    I see what you mean, but I think of all of them Superman is still the one which may have the clout to rise above; he is the daddy, after all. I think there's something special about Superman, still.
    Batman did have that, but I feel like he's been done to death now, sadly.
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