15 shot dead at Batman premiere in Denver

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  • Posts: 5,634
    So much can be said on this issue but I'm going to leave it. All that needs to be said, my sympathies go out to the families and relatives involved in this tragic event, people lost their lives all for the trouble of going to see a movie and yet another Idiot with a firearm who had some personal issues. RIP to the victims
  • edited July 2012 Posts: 624
    Grinderman wrote:
    Why is anyone shocked by this? We have shootings like this in the US all the time. Does no one remember the seven shooting victims at Oikos University in April; or the school shooting in Chadron, Ohio, in February; or the Arizona shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others—killing six—in 2011; or the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007; or the Columbine shooting more than 13 years ago?

    There are about 10,000 gun murders in the United States every year. There are on average, 20 mass shootings per year. And according to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, every day in America, guns claim 84 lives and wound nearly 200.

    What's more, we choose to live like this by our refusal to impose stricter gun control laws. Instead, we're sold a line about protecting our "freedom". Well, this is your freedom, my fellow Americans. You wanted it, you got it. Yippee-oh ki yay, motherf*ckers.

    Shocked? Hell, we should expected it. Just as we can expect another mass shooting in the next 9-12 months. It's not a question of "if", but only of "when". And when it happens again - in a shopping mall, or a ballgame, or yet another school - we will all wring our hands and shake our heads and, in the biggest ongoing mass delusion, we'll wonder how something this awfull could ever happen.

    But it does happen. It will happen again. And we will forget, after a short while just like we always do. Because we're addicted to this free wheeling cowboy concept of "freedom". Because we can't wrap our heads around the fact that you can't have millions of guns lying around and not have one of them fall into the hands of madmen.

    Feel sympathy for the victims and their families, but don't be shocked. We did this to ourselves. We did this because our puff-chested macho image of ourselves leaves us too weak to change.
    I find it ironic that you are a fan of a gun wielding hero like James Bond.

    What you do not understand is that no matter how many gun bans you impose, there will always be a way for a criminal to get a gun. The harder you make it, the harder criminals will try to get them. If a person truly is hellbent on bringing harm to someone, they will do anything in their power to do so. Why should we, law abiding, sane, citizens have to give up our freedom to use guns for sport or self defense? You need to understand that criminals will NEVER follow the law no matter what it says. Criminals buy guns with shaved serial numbers in dark alleyways, not Bass Pro Shops.

    Did you know that states with conceal carry and open carry have lower crime rates than states without? That is because that scumbag criminal has to think twice about committing a crime, because if he robs that convenience store, he might get his ass killed by that hero wielding that lawfully acquired firearm. That man who defended his life against that criminal also just saved everyone else in that store. One dead criminal is better than a dead, innocent person.

    http://www.guns.com/71-year-old-shoots-armed-robbers-9831.html

    A hero with a gun will always trump the villain.

    I usually try to avoid arguments on here, but your comment compelled me to respond.

    RIP, people of Aurora, CO.

    TGJB
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,956
    I don't see how this ISN'T shocking. It's an incredibly traumatic, upsetting event, and nothing can prepare you for something like that. I hope it doesn't make you feel like you have a better sense of self because this wasn't shocking to you.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I guess people like these shooters are frustrated and want their 15 minutes of fame. Choosing not to go out in a blaze of glory, he will have his day in court. I expect he will milk this for all he can. I mean he has gone from obscurity to a household name. His face is plastered across the Nation and the world.
    A crowded movie midnight screening is a "soft" target for these sick individuals.
    I do not blame our laughable gun control in this country. If they did not get their hands on certain automatic weapons, they would probably resort to high explosives.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    People around the world are now afraid to go and see this film, as if it is cursed. Worse enough, there are news stories popping up that blame the film for giving inspiration for what happened at the theater. Utter farce. Why do movies and video games constantly become the most blamed medias for this stuff? How about blaming the person in question who likely had undiagnosed mental deficiencies or a lack of proper parenting in their background stemming from abuse or marital turmoil?
  • Posts: 624
    I seriously hope people soon realize that this film doesn't deserve all the negative publicity it's getting.

    This film needs to be seen. It is a masterpiece.
  • Posts: 165
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I don't see how this ISN'T shocking. It's an incredibly traumatic, upsetting event, and nothing can prepare you for something like that. I hope it doesn't make you feel like you have a better sense of self because this wasn't shocking to you.

    One definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way and yet expecting a different result. We've been doing the same things, the same way, and yet we're "shocked" when the result is the same.

    Again, 20 mass shootings in this country every year. You can count on it. And yet we're shocked when each one happens? That's like being shocked by the arrival of winter.

  • Posts: 165
    Grinderman wrote:
    Why is anyone shocked by this? We have shootings like this in the US all the time. Does no one remember the seven shooting victims at Oikos University in April; or the school shooting in Chadron, Ohio, in February; or the Arizona shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 18 others—killing six—in 2011; or the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007; or the Columbine shooting more than 13 years ago?

    There are about 10,000 gun murders in the United States every year. There are on average, 20 mass shootings per year. And according to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, every day in America, guns claim 84 lives and wound nearly 200.

    What's more, we choose to live like this by our refusal to impose stricter gun control laws. Instead, we're sold a line about protecting our "freedom". Well, this is your freedom, my fellow Americans. You wanted it, you got it. Yippee-oh ki yay, motherf*ckers.

    Shocked? Hell, we should expected it. Just as we can expect another mass shooting in the next 9-12 months. It's not a question of "if", but only of "when". And when it happens again - in a shopping mall, or a ballgame, or yet another school - we will all wring our hands and shake our heads and, in the biggest ongoing mass delusion, we'll wonder how something this awfull could ever happen.

    But it does happen. It will happen again. And we will forget, after a short while just like we always do. Because we're addicted to this free wheeling cowboy concept of "freedom". Because we can't wrap our heads around the fact that you can't have millions of guns lying around and not have one of them fall into the hands of madmen.

    Feel sympathy for the victims and their families, but don't be shocked. We did this to ourselves. We did this because our puff-chested macho image of ourselves leaves us too weak to change.
    I find it ironic that you are a fan of a gun wielding hero like James Bond.

    What you do not understand is that no matter how many gun bans you impose, there will always be a way for a criminal to get a gun. The harder you make it, the harder criminals will try to get them. If a person truly is hellbent on bringing harm to someone, they will do anything in their power to do so. Why should we, law abiding, sane, citizens have to give up our freedom to use guns for sport or self defense? You need to understand that criminals will NEVER follow the law no matter what it says. Criminals buy guns with shaved serial numbers in dark alleyways, not Bass Pro Shops.

    TGJB



    If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States.

    We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112.

    Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited July 2012 Posts: 4,399
    deleted

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,956
    @Grinderman, I'm sorry, but comparing winter to mass shootings is not the same thing. Just because an average of 20 shootings like this happens doesn't mean we can't still be shocked when it happens.
  • Posts: 43
    Talking about how it's been handled by the media, I saw a so called psychologist or some such person on the BBC Breakfast News this morning. He mentioned video games, without us even knowing if the lunatic actually played games. 'He may have played video games, I don't know if he did...' Nobody asked him about it, he just mentioned it. He then went on to say how video games could have influenced him to do this! Though mind you he said it was to do with feelings of power, rather than the obvious 'if you play violent games, you'll become violent yourself' argument.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    scotty8692 wrote:
    Talking about how it's been handled by the media, I saw a so called psychologist or some such person on the BBC Breakfast News this morning. He mentioned video games, without us even knowing if the lunatic actually played games. 'He may have played video games, I don't know if he did...' Nobody asked him about it, he just mentioned it. He then went on to say how video games could have influenced him to do this! Though mind you he said it was to do with feelings of power, rather than the obvious 'if you play violent games, you'll become violent yourself' argument.
    I find all those video games lead to violence debates to be foolish. For me they allow me to unwind, and not commit crimes or murders. Just an excuse at the end of the day.
  • scotty8692 wrote:
    Talking about how it's been handled by the media, I saw a so called psychologist or some such person on the BBC Breakfast News this morning. He mentioned video games, without us even knowing if the lunatic actually played games. 'He may have played video games, I don't know if he did...' Nobody asked him about it, he just mentioned it. He then went on to say how video games could have influenced him to do this! Though mind you he said it was to do with feelings of power, rather than the obvious 'if you play violent games, you'll become violent yourself' argument.
    I find all those video games lead to violence debates to be foolish. For me they allow me to unwind, and not commit crimes or murders. Just an excuse at the end of the day.

    One of the changes in my thinking that has happened as I've gotten older is that I no longer look for simplistic solutions or reasons for complex problems or situations. I was raised in a family that always did that but if it was that easy then we would have eliminated crime and poverty a long time ago.

    My father taught me that there was no violence before the "godless hippies" invented it and ruined the world in the late 60s (umm, weren't they all about peace, love, and understanding?) along with drugs and pre-marital sex. Of course, as I got older and learned about history it became embarrassingly obvious that these things have always been around - not just for the last few decades but for thousands of years. So if human nature tends towards violence, the obvious thing to do is to eliminate the aggravating factors or the means to do it.

    So - does that mean getting rid of video games or violent movies? No, because violence was around long before that - there were mass shootings and riots back when the Hayes production code was in effect and of course before movies period. Schwartzenegger had one of the best explanations for this that I've ever heard. Some reporter thought he'd do a "gotcha" moment and asked Arnold about how his violent movies inspired real-life violence. Arnold, to his credit, remained calm and pointed out that his movies were shown all over the world and were also extremely successful in markets were murder and violence were extremely low or declining. So obviously there were "other factors" that contributed to violence in the U.S.

    And then a friend of mine had an even better observation. He is a HUGE fan of action movies, the more violent the better. But then he is also a very calm, considerate, "new-age sensitive guy". As he pointed out, if violent movies and video games promoted people doing violent things in real life then they were the most inefficient means to do so ever invented. How many thousands of hours of violent movies has he seen yet still remains a non-violent person? How many millions of people go to see a popular action film yet don't shoot people? As I said, I long ago stopped looking for simplistic explanations for complex problems.

    If only our "leaders" did the same...

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2012 Posts: 15,712
    I find it ironic that you are a fan of a gun wielding hero like James Bond.

    Are you saying that someone has to be pro-guns in order to be a Bond fan ? As a 'fan of a gun wielding hero', I have to applaud the shooting that took place ?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    James Bond isn't even a hero though.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2012 Posts: 15,712
    I'm just saying the argument is OTT. I've never smoked once in my life, yet I love when Bond smokes. I've never hold or fire a gun in my entire life, yet I love James Bond.

    So you have to be a smoker and drinker to enjoy Mad Men ? You have to be pro-guns to like 007 ? you have to be pro-mafia to like Goodfellas ?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,264
    What you do not understand is that no matter how many gun bans you impose, there will always be a way for a criminal to get a gun.

    A specious argument. Should we legalize rape because some criminals will always rape?

    Ban assault weapons and force shooters to reload after a small number of shots. It will save lives.
  • Posts: 306
    James Bond isn't even a hero though.

    WTF?? Of course he's a hero. What are you talking about?

    Being a fan of action movies or playing video games has no relation whatsoever to committing horrific acts of violence. That's a result of being a diseased sociopath.

    And - while I completely agree that gun laws in the US need to be changed (especially the reinstating of the assault rifle ban - ditto what echo says above) and I have great frustration that the gun lobbyists and right wing freaks seem to have won, please don't use this terrible tragedy to bash my country, my state or my city. Yes, it's much more frequent in America, but these kinds of events can happen anywhere, even at a summer camp in Norway for god's sake. Don't fool yourself, none of us are immune from sick individuals.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    VeryBond wrote:
    James Bond isn't even a hero though.

    WTF?? Of course he's a hero. What are you talking about?

    Being a fan of action movies or playing video games has no relation whatsoever to committing horrific acts of violence. That's a result of being a diseased sociopath.

    And - while I completely agree that gun laws in the US need to be changed (especially the reinstating of the assault rifle ban - ditto what echo says above) and I have great frustration that the gun lobbyists and right wing freaks seem to have won, please don't use this terrible tragedy to bash my country, my state or my city. Yes, it's much more frequent in America, but these kinds of events can happen anywhere, even at a summer camp in Norway for god's sake. Don't fool yourself, none of us are immune from sick individuals.

    He's an antihero.
  • Posts: 306
    Oh give me a break! He's no such thing. Tony Soprano is an anti-hero. Bond is a flat-out hero who behaves within the confines of a strict moral code, putting the needs of the many before his own, risking his life for his country and often saving the lives of millions of people all over the world. If that's not a hero, I don't know what is. People don't watch an anti-hero for 50 years.



    8-|
  • Posts: 4,813
    Do you mean he's not a hero because it's his job and he gets paid? Like as opposed to Superman or something?

    Bond is definitely a hero IMO
  • Posts: 1,492
    He's an antihero.

    This. On a basic level he is a hero but if the essence of the character is the books. The core of the character is in the novels and he is a cynical flawed man with a couple of neurosis who knows he is being used by "dolts in high places". He is a sybarite who enjoys earthly pleasures to cope with the nasty elements of his job. Bond was never black and white that is what makes him so fascinating and may be why he has survived fitty years.

    Back on topic.

    I hope this doesnt set a precedent with premieres. I dont want to stand in fear at the next first night on Leicester Square. And I am beginning to get very concerned with what could go wrong with the Olympics.

  • Posts: 1,143
    Bond is a hero. Many things one can identify with Bond can also be found within the actual definition of the very word. I love Bond with his famous PPK and watch many films with guns and play many video games with guns. This shooting will no doubt raise the question of guns in popular culture being an influence on real life killings which in the main is doubtful in my opinion. I doubt the issue would have been raised if the shooting had happened in a mall.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2012 Posts: 12,480
    I understand the take on anti-hero, Bond being a flawed and complex hero, but to me he is and always will be a hero.

    I, too, am concerned (and have been, not new) about the Olympics. I worry about every Olympics (since Munich; I was in high school then - and I still remember how it felt watching about it on tv - surreal and stunned). I love London and Britain so much and I want this to be a fun, heartfelt, and spectacular Olympics - but especially, no horrific acts of violence at it. In this day and age, I think it is really gutsy for any country to host such a huge event.
  • Posts: 7,653
    WHat is still a flipping mystery for me is the attendence of a nine-year old, a six year old and a 3 month old baby at a midnight screening for TDKR. Be it the time of day or the movie itself which is most certainly not aimed at that age group.

    Which does not mean that the tragedy is comprehensible especially when you get to know more about the perp, who seems to be the average guy on the block.
  • Posts: 12,837
    @VeryBond Anybody who kills as many men as Bond does in cold blood is an anti hero. Batman for example is a hero, because he doesn't kill people. Bond is an anti hero, think of all the villians/henchmen he's killed over the years.
  • Posts: 7,653
    @VeryBond Anybody who kills as many men as Bond does in cold blood is an anti hero. Batman for example is a hero, because he doesn't kill people. Bond is an anti hero, think of all the villians/henchmen he's killed over the years.

    Kindly refrain yourself from any Bond discussion in this thread as it is indecent considering the title.

    If you want to discus this make a new thread.

    Show some respect, please.

  • edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    @SaintMark I wasn't the only one.

    Anyway, I think the Olympics will be fine. And I hope this arsehole rots in prison for the rest of his life. RIP to the victims.
  • Posts: 7,653
    thelivingroyale it was not specificly aimed at you but at all those numpties that did forget the sad occasion for this thread.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,355
    Christopher Nolan has released the following statement:

    Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of The Dark Knight Rises, I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community. I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime. The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me. Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families.

    Christian Bale has said:

    Words cannot express the horror that I feel. I cannot begin to truly understand the pain and grief of the victims and their loved ones, but my heart goes out to them.
This discussion has been closed.