Cary Joji Fukunaga - Appreciation Thread

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,476
    @MakeshiftPython, I'm the same way. And it hurts my soul and confuses my mind when it's proven that accusations are false at times, because then you truly never know deep down what really happened and what didn't when other accusations come about. So many of these situations are "he said, she said" kinds of things, and because we weren't there, there's never a peace of mind. I just wish there was only good faith, and the only accusations made were those that had 100% truth to them. Because we don't have that, all the true victims that've suffered face an even greater resistance to come out and speak up because they'll fear being lumped in with all those who lied about the abuse. I feel so, so bad for them. There's no closure, no sense of justice for them, and for someone not to believe you when you recount events that scarred you for life...well, it's just hard to imagine it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,451
    That’s a very good point, and why I think we basically have to always believe people when they make these allegations. I don’t see that there’s anything fishy about the timing of these at all: it takes one person to get confident enough to go public and others follow. If they later go on to turn out to be not true then that’s fine, but they always have to be taken seriously.
    It may actually turn out to be harder for the alleged abuser to come out of this if it isn’t true because there’s nothing illegal being reported so it won’t go to court, unless he sues of course.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 370
    About Nick Cuse, it should be noted that he's far from being a nobody in the industry. He's the son of Carlton Cuse, who was the co-showrunner of Lost, and he works frequently with the other Lost co-showrunner, Damon Lindelof, on stuff like The Leftovers, the Watchmen mini-series or The Hunt (the satiric film about liberals hunting conspiracy theorists and turning up to be at least as bad as them). So, it's quite telling if he calls Fukunaga the worst person he has ever met in his life. Cuse doesn't seem to be the type who complains frequently about people, or who'd get routinely dismissed by a director who takes one of his scripts. He simply wanted to corroborate the reports by sharing his own experience with Fukunaga. If Fukunaga behaved like that with him, while Cuse is connected to extremely important people in the industry (like Lindelof or JJ Abrams), imagine what it is with "nobodies".

    I'll also add that, even if Fukunaga was also given a screenwriting credit for NTTD, he wasn't given free reign on such a production. True Detective was also a production for which both him and Nic Pizzolatto had some clout. It's different for Maniac, the Netflix miniseries, as Fukunaga had come up with the project and had much more control about casting or credits, especially as two majors stars were already attached. And it definitely brought the jerk in him.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Each moment I draw closer to the Divine.
    Posts: 43,902
    I once saw him out on the street, waiting for his girlfriend to finish school. He blew his nose in another man s scarf, and threw his empty coke bottle into a baby carriage. Not even Hitler did that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Each moment I draw closer to the Divine.
    Posts: 43,902
    I wonder who is behind this sudden smear campaign?
    R.72a1bc6ece3a13bca196de4a58317408?rik=yFgADPEdSS0Rhg&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.filmclicks.at%2fFilmClicks%2fmedia%2fMedia-Library%2fPersonen%2fB17-Boyle-Sartena-1-crop.JPG%3fwidth%3d1000&ehk=pMSsEgspTZcaYjC23EgsIbaWoKMkANaB5pneK8e%2b2aw%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,219
    So after a couple of weeks literally no one picked up this story.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 6,496
    In the case of Cary, I don’t know what the truth is , but it bring this to mind.

    https://people.com/movies/henry-cavill-criticized-saying-hesitant-flirt-over-fears-of-being-called-rapist/?amp=true
  • MI6HQMI6HQ At The Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited May 24 Posts: 636
    talos7 wrote: »
    In the case of Cary, I don’t know what the truth is , but it bring this to mind.

    https://people.com/movies/henry-cavill-criticized-saying-hesitant-flirt-over-fears-of-being-called-rapist/?amp=true

    All of the popular stars has been called rapist or accused of sexual harassment these days.
    There's a famous saying in our country:

    "A tree that bears a lot of fruits is often pelted with stones.".


    If you're a big star, they will accused you of different bad or worst accusations. Because you're too much popular.

    Like some people throwing some stones at the tree full of fruits.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,451
    Or maybe it's true.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 6,496
    mtm wrote: »
    Or maybe it's true.

    Absolutely…
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,780
    I am not a fan of the notion that it's best to just believe the accuser. In my opinion, it is best to patiently await what courts have to say. I agree that it takes courage to come out with a story about abuse, but I wouldn't put it past certain people to target an innocent and plant seeds of distrust where none belong.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 6,496
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I am not a fan of the notion that it's best to just believe the accuser. In my opinion, it is best to patiently await what courts have to say. I agree that it takes courage to come out with a story about abuse, but I wouldn't put it past certain people to target an innocent and plant seeds of distrust where none belong.

    +1
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 24 Posts: 10,451
    If you don’t believe them then we go down the path of insinuating they may be lying, as above, which creates an atmosphere and mindset where people who have been abused feel like they’re likely to be blamed or called liars or worse, and don’t come forward because of that, and abuse is allowed to continue.
    It doesn’t mean you have to accept that it’s true, and it’s fine to await a final judgement from the court before saying anything, but they should be believed and investigated as such, and certainly never accused of lying just because the person in the frame is famous etc.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 6,496
    It may seem to be a contradiction but initially both parties should be believed, while at the same time viewed wit a measured skepticism; prejudging in favor of either could have devastating ramifications
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Omaha, NE
    Posts: 6,222
    Hahaha I always thought the term “chasing women” was an odd one. “Wooing” has a lighter connotation.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,780
    I will always listen to the story, try to get to the bottom of things, hear both sides, ... But since I was never there when the events transpired as described, I can neither believe nor make assumptions. I don't see that as a problem either. It would be problematic to flat-out dismiss accusations as lies. It would be equally problematic to believe accusations by default. Accusations should lead to investigations, conducted as discretely as possible. Accusations brought forth on public forums can be quite damaging for the accused. Being publicly accused can mean the end of a career, no matter what the truth or final verdict.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 24 Posts: 10,451
    That’s fair enough, but that’s my point really: dismissing accusations as lies is the main problem: it’s not a smear campaign or ‘stones thrown at a tree of fruits’, it’s several people who seem to have been victim to bad behaviour. And to investigate accusations they basically have to be believed, even if that means they’re disproven in the long run.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 370
    So far, there are two main stories reported by three women, as there are the twins, but it definitely puts into a different perspective what Nic Pizzolatto had done with the Asian-American director on season 2 of True Detective. At the time, it looked like some petty revenge by Pizzolatto against Fukunaga for adding action scenes to his scripts and getting some of the praise that Pizzolatto thought he was alone to deserve. Especially as this second season was an overall letdown. But the way the gross character behaved is almost a perfect match for the description in the exposé about Fukunaga.

    Still, I don't think that much will come out of the reports, even if more women come with similar stories. He apparently committed no crime. He didn't cross a line, like Ryan Adams did when he engaged on the Internet with a minor. He just acted like a jerk and a creep with a fetish on young and vulnerable women, but of legal age. He will most likely do something like spending a month in therapy for sex addiction, and he will resume his career. But if some young actress thinks that the guy acts weird towards her, she'll just need to google him to hear about these stories. And he won't be able to pose as a male feminist on social media anymore. And I guess that's what these women were trying to achieve. Not to wreck his career, but to warn others (and the industry) of what he's capable of.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,780
    mtm wrote: »
    That’s fair enough, but that’s my point really: dismissing accusations as lies is the main problem: it’s not a smear campaign or ‘stones thrown at a tree of fruits’, it’s several people who seem to have been victim to bad behaviour. And to investigate accusations they basically have to be believed, even if that means they’re disproven in the long run.

    We seem to be in agreement. 😉
  • Posts: 367
    His successful life is over. You heard tons of things about Tom Cruise but nothing as creepy. I myself crossed path with Tom once, and I have only good things to say. I helped him make it to a premiere secure. He thanked me and shook my hand when I didn't even expected a nod. This guy Funukawa, there's thousands like him in the industry.
  • Posts: 574
    mtm wrote: »
    I think we basically have to always believe people when they make these allegations.
    mtm wrote: »
    It doesn’t mean you have to accept that it’s true

    I like that you disagree with yourself as much as you disagree with others on here. That's a very fair-minded approach!
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,204
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    As far as the the unfortunate scriptwriter; this is also Hollywood on any given day. I myself had been threatened and bullied by a producer who actually said to me, "I'll make sure you never work in this town again." Yes, the most cliche threat was pitched at me. And, although it was largely an empty threat, he did destroy my relationship I had with his producing partner and the several projects we were working on came to an abrupt halt. I was given my last pay and was cut off.

    Sorry to hear you experienced that.

    Unfortunately, some directors are notorious for taking credit (or trying to) for the screenplay after allegedly doing very little or even no work -- one example being Stanley Kubrick, who credited himself for writing THE KILLING, relegating Jim Thompson to "additional dialogue," and then, according to Kirk Douglas, tried to take credit for SPARTACUS when Dalton Trumbo was still blacklisted.

    So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Fukanaga didn't write a word of NTTD.

    Orson Welles took writing credits for CITIZEN KANE. Then, Charlie Chaplin hired Welles to write the script for MONSIEUER VERDOUX, then bought the script from Welles, crediting Welles with only the "idea" and claiming the script as his own.

    If it turns out, that Fukunaga did, what he is accused of, then shame on him. Interesting is, however, that, when Fukunaga did TRUE DETECTIVE, he probably wasn't a famous director (and if you compare series 2 and 3 to series 1, you can really see the difference in quality, pacing, acting and directing). And up till now, Fukunaga did not "Weinstein" these people.

    Never knew, there was a word like "to Weinstein somebody", but it makes sense. And the system Hollywood is a corrupted one, hypocrites, vanity fair all around, and it always had been this way. The Academy fired Polanski some times after #metoo started. But they did not do that thirty years earlier, when he was put on trial for what he did to this young girl. It was all in the media, but the Academy did not feel the need to sanction Polanski for escaping to Europe during the trial. He even got an Oscar for THE PIANIST (which he did not pick up himself, as the LAPD would have arrested him on the spot).

    So regaring Fukunaga, we should wait, what finally comes off it. As long as he is not found guilty, or makes a confession, he as everybody else has to be considered as innocent.

    @Peter: Sorry to hear about what this producer did to you.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 370
    Fukunaga is a huge Kubrick nerd (he's supposed to direct the Napoléon script for HBO). What Kubrick did to Thompson on The Killing was quite common in the industry. Directors tend to consider that they're more involved with the script than they actually are. Even if they didn't type any line, they provided some inspiration, got a few lines changed, etc., so they take credit for what's working and get a courtesy credit, just like singers want to be considered as songwriters too. Actually, the screenwriter for Eyes Wide Shut was very unsatisfied, as Kubrick would ask him over and over to make the dialog simpler and dumber, without realizing that every subtlety removed would belong to the visuals instead.
    And Thompson actually got a proper screenwriting credit on Paths of Glory, then developed a treatment based on an original idea by Kubrick, Lunatic at Large (which was lost for decades but may end getting developed in the next few years). So, their relationship had somehow recovered in spite of that initial conflict.

    And that's a mistake that too many people make. Acting like a jerk won't magically turn you into the next Stanley Kubrick. It's more likely to turn you into the next Troy Duffy.
  • edited May 28 Posts: 587
    Orson Welles took writing credits for CITIZEN KANE.

    The difference being that Welles actually did co-write CITIZEN KANE. Pauline Kael's foolish claims to the contrary were contested by Welles's friends and collaborators and finally thoroughly debunked by Robert Carringer in his excellent book The Making of Citizen Kane.
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree Stockholm/London
    edited May 31 Posts: 266
    And that's a mistake that too many people make. Acting like a jerk won't magically turn you into the next Stanley Kubrick. It's more likely to turn you into the next Troy Duffy.

    No offense, but people’s ability to judge character is at an all time low, especially in the film industry where a bunch of stuck up talentless attention seeking dweebs radiate false virtue to further their own careers. Obviously marketing budgets and efforts have to increase to compensate.

    I am all for minority representation, being from one of the most underrepresented ethnic groups myself, but bad pretentious writing, casting and directing is slowly killing the entire industry. It’s as if industry personnel are unable to distinguish facts from fiction and are allergic to actual talent and pop culture relevance (or they are just afraid of competent competition).

    Most real psychos pretend to be nice, at least the jerks are honest and keep their integrity intact.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited May 29 Posts: 20,780
    And that's a mistake that too many people make. Acting like a jerk won't magically turn you into the next Stanley Kubrick. It's more likely to turn you into the next Troy Duffy.

    No offense, but people’s ability to judge character is at an all time low, especially in the film industry where a bunch of stuck up talentless attention seeking dweebs radiate false virtue to further their own careers. Obviously marketing budgets and efforts have to increase to compensate.

    I am all for minority representation, being from one of the most underrepresented ethnic groups myself, but bad pretentious writing, casting and directing is slowly killing the entire industry. It’s as if industry personnel are unable to distinguish facts from fiction and are allergic to talent and pop culture relevance (or they are just afraid of competent competition).

    Most c*nts pretend to be nice, at least the jerks have their integrity intact.

    With sympathy for the bolded part, I'd still like to ask to avoid unnecessarily harshly formulated generalizations. Most of what you wrote isn't just happening now; it's been going on since the earliest days of the movie business. The past seems so glorious sometimes, but we often forget that loads of "talentless" anythings put out loads of crappy films before recent times just as well. Most of that stuff has been forgotten or buried in niche markets, and our general appreciation of past decades is mostly built on the memorable stuff alone--the "golden" films from when the Sun still shone over Hollywood. Nah, they made crap then and they make crap now; they made greatness then and they make greatness now.

    Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're suggesting that "positive representation" or "more inclusion" are killing the art of filmmaking. I thought so too, once. But to be fair, most films aren't really being affected by any of that. The very high-profile, often Disney films that are, catch a lot of attention but still are few. And only a handful of those few spit their messages directly in our face, without subtlety or nuance. A lot of films do have something to say, and can't be blamed for doing so.

    A lot of films still have "good taste" and great talent behind them as well. They may not all be the "200 million dollars" blockbusters whose posters we see everywhere, but they still count for something. There's a big section of the weekly output that we so often overlook -- underpromoted, hardly noticed, small films -- that qualify as artistic, beautiful, charming, great... But it usually takes us a while to find them.

    Lastly, I understand the anger, but the final sentence added nothing to your post and the choice of words, even when "coded", isn't doing it any favours either. Since we're not the YouTube comment section, I'd like to politely ask to refrain from using them while here. Thanks. :)
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree Stockholm/London
    edited June 2 Posts: 266
    -
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,204
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Orson Welles took writing credits for CITIZEN KANE.

    The difference being that Welles actually did co-write CITIZEN KANE. Pauline Kael's foolish claims to the contrary were contested by Welles's friends and collaborators and finally thoroughly debunked by Robert Carringer in his excellent book The Making of Citizen Kane.

    Alright... In MANK Fincher insinuates, that Welles nicked the (co-)writer credit together with Mankiewicz (BTW the uncle of Tom Mankiewicz), who claimed, that Welles did not contribute anything for the sript. Got that wrong. Sorry.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte #JusticeForJohnnyDepp
    Posts: 784
    #Believe all women, except Amber Heard
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 10,451
    mtm wrote: »
    I think we basically have to always believe people when they make these allegations.
    mtm wrote: »
    It doesn’t mean you have to accept that it’s true

    I like that you disagree with yourself as much as you disagree with others on here. That's a very fair-minded approach!

    The two statements you quote aren’t contradictory.
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