NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited January 2022 Posts: 4,548
    TripAces wrote: »
    FWIW, Dan Romer's score for the HBO Max show, Station Eleven, is nothing short of brilliant. Of course, the show is quite different from Bond, nevertheless it is a score I didn't think he had in him.

    I've also heard the show is great too; might have to check it out.

    It's fantastic...and well-timed.
    Feyador wrote: »
    I wonder if the music of NTTD will have created something of a precedent in the years to come--or even a return to what Barry himself had done in the early years--by means of reusing the music of previous films? There is by now an entire canon of Bond music to be mined by future Bond composers, orchestrators and arrangers. Is it then any wonder that the creatives on NTTD were unable to resist the temptation of delving into its majesties?

    And given how self-referential the series has become (never more so than under Craig), I think we can expect the weight of its own tradition to factor ever more highly regarding the music, as well ....

    I remember that one of trailers for SP included a little bit of Barry's OHMSS. People loved it. I think there is a warming to using some of the old musical cues.
  • Mallory wrote: »
    I’m all for Bill Conti’s “Make It Last All Night” be reprised in the same way OHMSS and WHATTITW was in NTTD.

    And "Dirty Love" from LTK as well!
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Surprisingly, I didn't like it.
    The only stuff that sprung out where the Barry cues from OHMSS. I'm pretty sure the theme that plays when Bond is skulking around Saffin's lair was actually lifted from The Dark Knight Rises.

    Imagine finally realising that a journeyman like David Arnold can do better Bond soundtracks than Hans Zimmer or Thomas Newman. What a curious world we live in.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    edited January 2022 Posts: 2,036
    Alternative NTTD Soundtrack Names
    (a bit of fun)

    1. Where’s the blood? (Gun Barrel)
    2. Can we go faster? (Matera)
    3. Sheep on the loose! (Message from an Old Friend)
    4. Go Nuts for Doughnuts (Square Escape)
    5. Fishing for Adventure (Someone Was Here)
    6. Old Wrecks (Not What I Expected)
    7. Bag of Bees (What Have You Done?)
    8. Three Weeks Training (Shouldn’t We Get To Know Each Other First)
    9. Blink and You’ll Miss Her (Cuba Chase)
    10. How do I afford these? (Back to MI6)
    11. Out of Ideas (Good to Have You Back)
    12. Wavy Hands (Lovely to See You Again)
    13. Slinky-ing around (Home)
    14. Dou Dou Dash (Norway Chase)
    15. Valhalla Howls (Gearing Up)
    16. Remembered the Villain (Poison Garden)
    17. Gravity isnt your friend (The Factory)
    18. The Bond Knight Rises (I’ll be right back)
    19. Blow Your Mind (Opening the Doors)
    20. I said “one last time“ and I meant it (Final Ascent)
  • Posts: 6,682
    Mallory wrote: »
    Alternative NTTD Soundtrack Names
    (a bit of fun)

    1. Where’s the blood? (Gun Barrel)
    2. Can we go faster? (Matera)
    3. Sheep on the loose! (Message from an Old Friend)
    4. Go Nuts for Doughnuts (Square Escape)
    5. Fishing for Adventure (Someone Was Here)
    6. Old Wrecks (Not What I Expected)
    7. Bag of Bees (What Have You Done?)
    8. Three Weeks Training (Shouldn’t We Get To Know Each Other First)
    9. Blink and You’ll Miss Her (Cuba Chase)
    10. How do I afford these? (Back to MI6)
    11. Out of Ideas (Good to Have You Back)
    12. Wavy Hands (Lovely to See You Again)
    13. Slinky-ing around (Home)
    14. Dou Dou Dash (Norway Chase)
    15. Valhalla Howls (Gearing Up)
    16. Remembered the Villain (Poison Garden)
    17. Gravity isnt your friend (The Factory)
    18. The Bond Knight Rises (I’ll be right back)
    19. Blow Your Mind (Opening the Doors)
    20. I said “one last time“ and I meant it (Final Ascent)

    :))
  • Hans Zimmer was hired mainly for his name. Notice how the last three Bond movies somehow used Christopher Nolan for inspiration. While CR and QoS certainly followed the reboot trend, the idea to restart the series already was discussed by the producer a year or two before Batman Begins came out. At the time, Jason Bourne movies were setting the stage up and background crew from that series were being hired.


    David Arnold is missed.....his work really helped QoS make up for its lack of dialogue and by that time, Arnold had truly strengthened his ability to convey emotion through his musical scoring.
  • MeanwhileMeanwhile Brooklyn
    edited January 2022 Posts: 32
    I don’t think they hired Zimmer for trend… they could have easily hired “pencils are sharp for Bond” Arnold but they knew he couldn’t deliver the needed emotional punch the way Zimmer can. And this comes from someone who grew up loving Arnold’s sense of pastiche.

    That said, I also loved what Newman brought to the table so abuse me as you will. Just know my taste is more sophisticated than yours if you do. 😏
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    I think the most haunting piece of music in Bond history was composed by David Arnold, The Vesper theme, he'll always have credit in the bank with me for that

    I love Zimmer's updated powerful version of the Bond theme from NTTD though, when it flows out of the Cuba Chase, the hairs on my back of my neck stood up. I love Not What I Expected as well
  • Meanwhile wrote: »
    I don’t think they hired Zimmer for trend… they could have easily hired “pencils are sharp for Bond” Arnold but they knew he couldn’t deliver the needed emotional punch the way Zimmer can. And this comes from someone who grew up loving Arnold’s sense of pastiche.

    That said, I also loved what Newman brought to the table so abuse me as you will. Just know my taste is more sophisticated than yours if you do. 😏

    LOL.
    You might be right....but please defend or elaborate Thomas Newman's contributions. Both he and Hans Zimmer used repetitive simplistic tunes with
    lots of percussion....again, defend Newman and without bringing up the drive to Skyfall score (he was good on that piece).
  • MeanwhileMeanwhile Brooklyn
    Posts: 32
    I think the scoring of the drive to Skyfall is symbolic of the strengths of his scores in general: atmosphere so simple that it allows the film to breathe rather than overpower it with a checklist of dated & overstated orchestral elements. And when he makes full use of the orchestra, I love the sense of foreboding and sometimes even impending doom, in a romantic sense - see his “location intro” cues like “Komodo Dragon”, “Crows Klinik” etc.

    Now to his romance themes, which are some of the best listens in the franchise. His themes for Madeleine in particular do a lot of the work that is missing in the writing for the two characters’ supposed love story. I’ve made peace with Zimmer for not carrying them through since I enjoyed his NTTD score so much but I can go into that another time.

    I believe Mendes made a comment that Newman’s score for SP is more confident, and when the material isn’t recycled from SF I’ll completely give him that. I could find gripes with the scenes where Newman was persuaded into re-using cues from SF, sure - but let’s be honest; the music is the least of those scene’s problems. And I 100% love listening to his expansion of “The Moors” even if it doesn’t make much thematic sense.

    Another thing worth mentioning - his sense of drive & atmosphere in general. The chilling vibes of “Shanghai Drive”, “Someone Usually Dies” & “Silver Wraith” for a few examples. To me they are quite a bit more thoughtful & sophisticated to Arnold’s scoring of similar scenes. I’ll say that Arnold’s score for QOS showed a certain restraint that I imagine was due to the influence of Marc Forster but his action cues were still largely a kitchen sink mess. Zimmer & Mazzaro took a lot of the best of both worlds of Arnold & Newman for their score and finally mastered the action music at the end of Craig’s era.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    I think the scoring of the drive to Skyfall is symbolic of the strengths of his scores in general: atmosphere so simple that it allows the film to breathe rather than overpower it with a checklist of dated & overstated orchestral elements. And when he makes full use of the orchestra, I love the sense of foreboding and sometimes even impending doom, in a romantic sense - see his “location intro” cues like “Komodo Dragon”, “Crows Klinik” etc.

    Now to his romance themes, which are some of the best listens in the franchise. His themes for Madeleine in particular do a lot of the work that is missing in the writing for the two characters’ supposed love story. I’ve made peace with Zimmer for not carrying them through since I enjoyed his NTTD score so much but I can go into that another time.

    I believe Mendes made a comment that Newman’s score for SP is more confident, and when the material isn’t recycled from SF I’ll completely give him that. I could find gripes with the scenes where Newman was persuaded into re-using cues from SF, sure - but let’s be honest; the music is the least of those scene’s problems. And I 100% love listening to his expansion of “The Moors” even if it doesn’t make much thematic sense.

    Another thing worth mentioning - his sense of drive & atmosphere in general. The chilling vibes of “Shanghai Drive”, “Someone Usually Dies” & “Silver Wraith” for a few examples. To me they are quite a bit more thoughtful & sophisticated to Arnold’s scoring of similar scenes. I’ll say that Arnold’s score for QOS showed a certain restraint that I imagine was due to the influence of Marc Forster but his action cues were still largely a kitchen sink mess. Zimmer & Mazzaro took a lot of the best of both worlds of Arnold & Newman for their score and finally mastered the action music at the end of Craig’s era.

    looking-in-a-mirror-john-travolta.gif
  • Meanwhile wrote: »
    I think the scoring of the drive to Skyfall is symbolic of the strengths of his scores in general: atmosphere so simple that it allows the film to breathe rather than overpower it with a checklist of dated & overstated orchestral elements. And when he makes full use of the orchestra, I love the sense of foreboding and sometimes even impending doom, in a romantic sense - see his “location intro” cues like “Komodo Dragon”, “Crows Klinik” etc.

    Now to his romance themes, which are some of the best listens in the franchise. His themes for Madeleine in particular do a lot of the work that is missing in the writing for the two characters’ supposed love story. I’ve made peace with Zimmer for not carrying them through since I enjoyed his NTTD score so much but I can go into that another time.

    I believe Mendes made a comment that Newman’s score for SP is more confident, and when the material isn’t recycled from SF I’ll completely give him that. I could find gripes with the scenes where Newman was persuaded into re-using cues from SF, sure - but let’s be honest; the music is the least of those scene’s problems. And I 100% love listening to his expansion of “The Moors” even if it doesn’t make much thematic sense.

    Another thing worth mentioning - his sense of drive & atmosphere in general. The chilling vibes of “Shanghai Drive”, “Someone Usually Dies” & “Silver Wraith” for a few examples. To me they are quite a bit more thoughtful & sophisticated to Arnold’s scoring of similar scenes. I’ll say that Arnold’s score for QOS showed a certain restraint that I imagine was due to the influence of Marc Forster but his action cues were still largely a kitchen sink mess. Zimmer & Mazzaro took a lot of the best of both worlds of Arnold & Newman for their score and finally mastered the action music at the end of Craig’s era.

    Great analysis! I personally find it hard to get through Newman's SP score. It's very nuanced and atmospheric, but not a pleasurable listen separate from the film. I can still listen to Skyfall's score as it has a more diverse track list and the first half especially feels like a breath of fresh air.

    If looking at the Craig era as a whole, I'm increasingly feeling that it's a rich era musically, capturing Arnold's best works, the modern and atmospheric efforts of Newman, and going out with Zimmer's referential and bombastic score.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited January 2022 Posts: 1,261
    I was going to say...it'll be a blow to Arnold and Barry fans alike! Take that, Barry fans! Another non-Barry Bond composer getting the nom!

    Guys, you are aware, that Barry got several nominations and actually won five Oscars. Not for a Bond soundtrack, though. That Sam Smith won an Oscar for his cringeworthy sobbin and falsetto-crying "song", might have been a blow to Barry, had he lived to listen to it, but he had passed away some years earlier.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    The Academy certainly adored Barry outside of Bond. Not many composers can make the claim that they won five Oscars. I think the only other is John Williams. So to stand shoulder to shoulder with a composer just as prolific and influential is the highest compliment.

    This is partly why Barry was fine not returning to Bond after TLD. He didn’t need Bond anymore. He had 12 Bond movies under his belt. THAT is a lot of Bond.

    And of course he infamously dismissed the post-60s Bond films that had Moore and Dalton. I guess he started to think he was “above” Bond. This explains his attitude when Brad Bird wanted him to return to the 60s Bond style for THE INCREDIBLES and Barry brushed that off saying “I can do that in my sleep”.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Mallory wrote: »
    Alternative NTTD Soundtrack Names
    (a bit of fun)

    1. Where’s the blood? (Gun Barrel)
    2. Can we go faster? (Matera)
    3. Sheep on the loose! (Message from an Old Friend)
    4. Go Nuts for Doughnuts (Square Escape)
    5. Fishing for Adventure (Someone Was Here)
    6. Old Wrecks (Not What I Expected)
    7. Bag of Bees (What Have You Done?)
    8. Three Weeks Training (Shouldn’t We Get To Know Each Other First)
    9. Blink and You’ll Miss Her (Cuba Chase)
    10. How do I afford these? (Back to MI6)
    11. Out of Ideas (Good to Have You Back)
    12. Wavy Hands (Lovely to See You Again)
    13. Slinky-ing around (Home)
    14. Dou Dou Dash (Norway Chase)
    15. Valhalla Howls (Gearing Up)
    16. Remembered the Villain (Poison Garden)
    17. Gravity isnt your friend (The Factory)
    18. The Bond Knight Rises (I’ll be right back)
    19. Blow Your Mind (Opening the Doors)
    20. I said “one last time“ and I meant it (Final Ascent)

    Brilliant. Hilarious! :-h \:D/ :bz
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Mallory wrote: »
    I’m all for Bill Conti’s “Make It Last All Night” be reprised in the same way OHMSS and WHATTITW was in NTTD.

    And "Dirty Love" from LTK as well!

    It's a Klassiker. In Dschörmänie we call it a Klassiker.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was going to say...it'll be a blow to Arnold and Barry fans alike! Take that, Barry fans! Another non-Barry Bond composer getting the nom!

    Guys, you are aware, that Barry got several nominations and actually won five Oscars. Not for a Bond soundtrack, though. That Sam Smith won an Oscar for his cringeworthy sobbin and falsetto-crying "song", might have been a blow to Barry, had he lived to listen to it, but he had passed away some years earlier.

    Being dead does have its benefits.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    I was going to say...it'll be a blow to Arnold and Barry fans alike! Take that, Barry fans! Another non-Barry Bond composer getting the nom!

    Guys, you are aware, that Barry got several nominations and actually won five Oscars. Not for a Bond soundtrack, though. That Sam Smith won an Oscar for his cringeworthy sobbin and falsetto-crying "song", might have been a blow to Barry, had he lived to listen to it, but he had passed away some years earlier.

    Being dead does have its benefits.

    Indeed. In that case most certainly.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was going to say...it'll be a blow to Arnold and Barry fans alike! Take that, Barry fans! Another non-Barry Bond composer getting the nom!

    Guys, you are aware, that Barry got several nominations and actually won five Oscars. Not for a Bond soundtrack, though. That Sam Smith won an Oscar for his cringeworthy sobbin and falsetto-crying "song", might have been a blow to Barry, had he lived to listen to it, but he had passed away some years earlier.

    Being dead does have its benefits.

    Indeed. In that case most certainly.

    Spinning in his grave must have been dizzying, though.
  • Posts: 6,682
    The Academy certainly adored Barry outside of Bond. Not many composers can make the claim that they won five Oscars. I think the only other is John Williams. So to stand shoulder to shoulder with a composer just as prolific and influential is the highest compliment.

    This is partly why Barry was fine not returning to Bond after TLD. He didn’t need Bond anymore. He had 12 Bond movies under his belt. THAT is a lot of Bond.

    And of course he infamously dismissed the post-60s Bond films that had Moore and Dalton. I guess he started to think he was “above” Bond. This explains his attitude when Brad Bird wanted him to return to the 60s Bond style for THE INCREDIBLES and Barry brushed that off saying “I can do that in my sleep”.

    I've always been fascinated by Barry's career from the nineties onwards. Between the music he composed in that era, and the account of his agent, Richard Kraft, on what happened on The Incredibles, it seems he was tired of the loud Bond music, and I get the feeling he was trying to reach greater emotional depths within his by now well-developed melancholic style. Although what he did in that period wasn't a radical change for him, I do feel he succeeded to some extent, especially in the album The Beyondness of Things. Those massive string sections he employed in that period, with more reverb than ever before, have a special warmth, a glow to them. To borrow a phrase, in the nineties, Barry was in the "moody twilight of (his artistic) obsessions."
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited March 2022 Posts: 648
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Surprisingly, I didn't like it.
    The only stuff that sprung out where the Barry cues from OHMSS. I'm pretty sure the theme that plays when Bond is skulking around Saffin's lair was actually lifted from The Dark Knight Rises.

    Imagine finally realising that a journeyman like David Arnold can do better Bond soundtracks than Hans Zimmer or Thomas Newman. What a curious world we live in.

    The Bond producers think that raiding Hollywood's A-list talent will yield great Bond movies instead of hiring people who actually know how to make Bond movies.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Surprisingly, I didn't like it.
    The only stuff that sprung out where the Barry cues from OHMSS. I'm pretty sure the theme that plays when Bond is skulking around Saffin's lair was actually lifted from The Dark Knight Rises.

    Imagine finally realising that a journeyman like David Arnold can do better Bond soundtracks than Hans Zimmer or Thomas Newman. What a curious world we live in.

    The Bond producers think that raiding Hollywood's A-list talent will yield great Bond movies instead of hiring people who actually know how to make Bond movies.

    @slide_99 ,have you seen the last film? Cary knows how to write AND direct a Bond film.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    Zimmers score is fantastic in my opinion. Matera Chase and Home amongst the best
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,247
    I love the score. I listen to it everyday. By the time the recording sessions/complete score comes out, I'm going to love it even more....because nice tracks are in the film, but not released with the score.
  • Posts: 252
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I'm not a massive fan of his arrangement of the Bond theme there.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    His live versions are always a little bit messy. I think Cuba Chase is wonderful as recorded, but it sounds a bit all over the place in that clip. I'm sure it sounded better if you were there, of course.
  • Posts: 6,682
    I like how they switched the bass line and melody of the Bond theme, so that the melody is in the bass range and the bass line isn't.
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,630
    Cool to see “Final Ascent” featured in this year’s Oscars ad

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