"The things we do for frequent flyer mileage"...GoldenEye Appreciation and Discussion.

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  • Goldeneye-1857.jpg

    Xenia on the other hand is basically a cartoon character. I recently re-watched 'Kill Bill' and she feels like character from that kind of universe. An overly stylised vixen who is larger than life. She’s slightly incongruous with the rest of the film. Though her appearance is far from unappreciated….

    d3d4e67089de706aa8e7e423d1ebda6f--famke-janssen-celebrity-photography.jpg.cf.jpg

    Xenia works even more to me because she stands out amongst the straight face that the film posits otherwise. She's fantastic, and I would be both attracted to and terrified of her in real life. Fiona Volpe but with an even greater sense of being sexually unhinged.

    Does it go too far though? The orgasms as she kills is certainly an....ahem....interesting decision, but shots like the dead Admiral don't really work for me...however, I'm into the scene where she attacks Bond during the sauna. It's oddly kinky but very threatening. It fits the more realistic tone.

    Though maybe I'm wrong as she often ranks highly on the list of 'best Bond girls.'
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    Goldeneye-1857.jpg

    Xenia on the other hand is basically a cartoon character. I recently re-watched 'Kill Bill' and she feels like character from that kind of universe. An overly stylised vixen who is larger than life. She’s slightly incongruous with the rest of the film. Though her appearance is far from unappreciated….

    d3d4e67089de706aa8e7e423d1ebda6f--famke-janssen-celebrity-photography.jpg.cf.jpg

    Xenia works even more to me because she stands out amongst the straight face that the film posits otherwise. She's fantastic, and I would be both attracted to and terrified of her in real life. Fiona Volpe but with an even greater sense of being sexually unhinged.

    Does it go too far though? The orgasms as she kills is certainly an....ahem....interesting decision, but shots like the dead Admiral don't really work for me...however, I'm into the scene where she attacks Bond during the sauna. It's oddly kinky but very threatening. It fits the more realistic tone.

    Though maybe I'm wrong as she often ranks highly on the list of 'best Bond girls.'

    I don't think you're wrong, as it's a matter of taste of course. But for me it certainly feeds into, or is at least related to, some of the notes on GoldenEye that you posted above. The idea of "wokeness" but also a simultaneous and fairly on the nose embracing of sexuality. Sex has always been utilised by femme fatales (and thanks to Basic Instinct, for example, were all the rage in the early 90s in particular in a more open way), but not the this extent in a Bond film before, despite it always being a "sexy" series. That the sex is reduced to a literal weapon (as opposed to being part of a pyschological game) by a villainness could both be seen as a genius stroke or a lazy cop out depending on who you ask.

    But regardless of how it rubs you, I think Xenia is a fascinating character and still very unique, even today.
  • Goldeneye-1857.jpg

    Xenia on the other hand is basically a cartoon character. I recently re-watched 'Kill Bill' and she feels like character from that kind of universe. An overly stylised vixen who is larger than life. She’s slightly incongruous with the rest of the film. Though her appearance is far from unappreciated….

    d3d4e67089de706aa8e7e423d1ebda6f--famke-janssen-celebrity-photography.jpg.cf.jpg

    Xenia works even more to me because she stands out amongst the straight face that the film posits otherwise. She's fantastic, and I would be both attracted to and terrified of her in real life. Fiona Volpe but with an even greater sense of being sexually unhinged.

    Does it go too far though? The orgasms as she kills is certainly an....ahem....interesting decision, but shots like the dead Admiral don't really work for me...however, I'm into the scene where she attacks Bond during the sauna. It's oddly kinky but very threatening. It fits the more realistic tone.

    Though maybe I'm wrong as she often ranks highly on the list of 'best Bond girls.'

    I don't think you're wrong, as it's a matter of taste of course. But for me it certainly feeds into, or is at least related to, some of the notes on GoldenEye that you posted above. The idea of "wokeness" but also a simultaneous and fairly on the nose embracing of sexuality. Sex has always been utilised by femme fatales (and thanks to Basic Instinct, for example, were all the rage in the early 90s in particular in a more open way), but not the this extent in a Bond film before, despite it always being a "sexy" series. That the sex is reduced to a literal weapon (as opposed to being part of a pyschological game) by a villainness could both be seen as a genius stroke or a lazy cop out depending on who you ask.

    But regardless of how it rubs you, I think Xenia is a fascinating character and still very unique, even today.

    I do agree, GE is the most openly ‘sexual’ Bond film. These films often only hint towards it, but GE certainly has its kinks.

    In our more sexually liberal times, I think Xenia would be a character claimed by female commentators just as much as she would be dismissed as a male fantasy figure come to life. Remember, she has no interest in having sex with Bond. But hurting him and eventually murdering him for her own pleasure……..

    The question is: Is that ‘woke?’
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,293
    All of this talk of "wokeness" in James Bond films ironically makes me feel very tired indeed.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited January 2020 Posts: 8,223
    Goldeneye-1857.jpg

    Xenia on the other hand is basically a cartoon character. I recently re-watched 'Kill Bill' and she feels like character from that kind of universe. An overly stylised vixen who is larger than life. She’s slightly incongruous with the rest of the film. Though her appearance is far from unappreciated….

    d3d4e67089de706aa8e7e423d1ebda6f--famke-janssen-celebrity-photography.jpg.cf.jpg

    Xenia works even more to me because she stands out amongst the straight face that the film posits otherwise. She's fantastic, and I would be both attracted to and terrified of her in real life. Fiona Volpe but with an even greater sense of being sexually unhinged.

    Does it go too far though? The orgasms as she kills is certainly an....ahem....interesting decision, but shots like the dead Admiral don't really work for me...however, I'm into the scene where she attacks Bond during the sauna. It's oddly kinky but very threatening. It fits the more realistic tone.

    Though maybe I'm wrong as she often ranks highly on the list of 'best Bond girls.'

    I don't think you're wrong, as it's a matter of taste of course. But for me it certainly feeds into, or is at least related to, some of the notes on GoldenEye that you posted above. The idea of "wokeness" but also a simultaneous and fairly on the nose embracing of sexuality. Sex has always been utilised by femme fatales (and thanks to Basic Instinct, for example, were all the rage in the early 90s in particular in a more open way), but not the this extent in a Bond film before, despite it always being a "sexy" series. That the sex is reduced to a literal weapon (as opposed to being part of a pyschological game) by a villainness could both be seen as a genius stroke or a lazy cop out depending on who you ask.

    But regardless of how it rubs you, I think Xenia is a fascinating character and still very unique, even today.

    I do agree, GE is the most openly ‘sexual’ Bond film. These films often only hint towards it, but GE certainly has its kinks.

    In our more sexually liberal times, I think Xenia would be a character claimed by female commentators just as much as she would be dismissed as a male fantasy figure come to life. Remember, she has no interest in having sex with Bond. But hurting him and eventually murdering him for her own pleasure……..

    The question is: Is that ‘woke?’

    That's true, but she does get sexual satisfaction from that same act of murder, so...

    I guess if you weigh it up, her character is probably not fitting with the current definition of the word "woke", while the film's embracing of a female's sexuality as something more than just 'sexuality' would be. It could be read as a bit of a paradox, maybe? Not dissimilar to a film having a racist character, while not being racist itself?
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    All of this talk of "wokeness" in James Bond films ironically makes me feel very tired indeed.

    I feel you, @Dragonpol

    It's certainly not a favourite term of mine, either. But unfortunately it is what it is. Looking at a film through a modern filter is sometimes interesting, as long as the goal is not to damn it.
    We could use the phrase "socially aware", but then we'd likely come to the conclusion that all Bond films are socially aware of the times that they were respectively released in. Anyway, I'd say that GoldenEye and the Craig era are the only ones that are relatively explicit about such such themes (of the top of my head, at least). The others are mostly more subtle.
  • I was going to be very skeptical about this guy based on his expression alone, but I have to say, his review is right on the money...

  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    That's incredible.
  • mattjoesmattjoes is in the next room, or this very one
    Posts: 7,035
    At around 2:15 in this 1997 interview with David Letterman, Famke Janssen explains how she got carried away while filming *that* scene in GoldenEye with Billy J. Mitchell (only referred to in the video as 'old guy'), slapping him on the ear while wearing a ring, and causing him to have dizzy spells.



    I don't know, his dizzy spells might have had a different cause.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    If John Barry had done the score for Goldeneye that alone would have elevated it up to the very top of my rankings. As it is, TND is higher. Not by much, but the score (Barry's themes) is essential.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    If John Barry had done the score for Goldeneye that alone would have elevated it up to the very top of my rankings. As it is, TND is higher. Not by much, but the score (Barry's themes) is essential.

    I’ve often thought of that. It’s not that I hate the GoldenEye score but I do wonder if it would be the clear number one film for me if Barry did it? It would certainly have the special factor because it’s the first Bond film I saw from beginning to end. Like you, Tomorrow Never Dies is still my favorite by Brosnan.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,210
    chrisisall wrote: »
    If John Barry had done the score for Goldeneye that alone would have elevated it up to the very top of my rankings. As it is, TND is higher. Not by much, but the score (Barry's themes) is essential.

    Musc is obviously very important to me, but other departments matter too. The only thing TND has over GE is its score. Even then, the GE score isn't bad in my opinion because it works in the film; it glues the parts of this tougher thriller together quite well. So TND over GE is a big no-no for me. In my Bond film ranking, GE is high up there (bring your binoculars!) while TND is the bench I'm sitting on right on.

    What I've always liked most about GE is that it tries to do something else. Its narrative structure, for example, is quite different from most other Bonds. No OT => mission => mission execution this time. The tone of the film is darker and often more brutal, even compared to LTK. Bond finally goes nuts in Russia (which I absolutely love), and that's a first too. On top of that, the music gives the film a unique techno-futuristic sound. I'm glad this was never repeated, not so much because I couldn't have handled a second Serra Bond score, but because now, as it is, GE really is its own thing.

    While the TND score is a lot more fun to listen to in isolation, the sound mix in TND is a little "off" from time to time too. When Arnold's "TND Theme" kicks in hard for the first time in 'White Knight', the film takes us out of the real fight and underwhelmingly shows TV screens, while the music is pulled down to below people's voices. It's weird that Arnold's first shining action moment is so unceremoniously covered up by people talking in a situation room. Other such instances occur throughout the film, especially during the stealth boat act, when it feels as if some amateur is just playing with the volume buttons. My point is that Arnold's score, while certainly one of my favourites, is often mistreated in the final film. This is an issue GE doesn't really have since Serra came up with tunes, sounds and beats that blended well with the images. And obviously, the sound mixing was in better hands. ;-)
  • Posts: 1,921
    I'm fine with the Serra GE score now. I remember talking with a fellow Bond fan who already listened to the CD just before GE released and he told me it was the worst soundtrack in the series. It was hard to listen to and ignore. But fact is we didn't get a Barry score and upon further listenings, Serra's score is interesting if not fun and it just fits for GE.

    I would rather listen to Serra's GE score any time compared with the bland scores Thomas Newman churned out for SF and SP. I've put those CDs on during long drives and honestly didn't even realize they were still on at several points. That never happens with most of the other Bond soundtracks.
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    At around 2:15 in this 1997 interview with David Letterman, Famke Janssen explains how she got carried away while filming *that* scene in GoldenEye with Billy J. Mitchell (only referred to in the video as 'old guy'), slapping him on the ear while wearing a ring, and causing him to have dizzy spells.



    I don't know, his dizzy spells might have had a different cause.
    I’d love to go out like he did when it’s my time to go :D
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mattjoes wrote: »
    At around 2:15 in this 1997 interview with David Letterman, Famke Janssen explains how she got carried away while filming *that* scene in GoldenEye with Billy J. Mitchell (only referred to in the video as 'old guy'), slapping him on the ear while wearing a ring, and causing him to have dizzy spells.



    I don't know, his dizzy spells might have had a different cause.
    I’d love to go out like he did when it’s my time to go :D

    He didn t know if he was coming or going.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,566
    We need you GoldenEye Aficionados in the Great Villain Intro Elimination game! Our man 006 is in a tight race with Dr. No and needs your votes!

    Now don't all of you go in there and vote for Dr. No just to spite this post!
  • edited January 3 Posts: 2,165
    Watching random Bond clips on Youtube and the Goldeneye archives escape has come up. Bloody love this sequence, so much intense action packed into 2 1/2 mins...

    Bond beating up Orumov, punching out a guard and escaping the cell with Natalya.
    Up the stairs, floor slide, guards flying into glass windows.
    Bond gunning down more guards.
    Natalya grabbing Bond and spinning him around.
    AK47 change.
    Into the archives.
    Outrunning the gun fire, Natalya through the hatch.
    Bond using the belt grapple to swing over the archives, kicking the guard, and out through the big window into the tank yard.

    Really really great stuff, and Sera's string score really help sells the intensity of it all.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,210
    Mallory wrote: »
    Watching random Bond clips on Youtube and the Goldeneye archives escape has come up. Bloody love this sequence, so much intense action packed into 2 1/2 mins...

    Bond beating up Orumov, punching out a guard and escaping the cell with Natalya.
    Up the stairs, floor slide, guards flying into glass windows.
    Bond gunning down more guards.
    Natalya grabbing Bond and spinning him around.
    AK47 change.
    Into the archives.
    Outrunning the gun fire, Natalya through the hatch.
    Bond using the belt grapple to swing over the archives, kicking the guard, and out through the big window into the tank yard.

    Really really great stuff, and Sera's string score really help sells the intensity of it all.

    It's a superbly made scene, this. Also a very brutal one, what with Bond mowing down dozens of soldiers. (Has he ever taken that many lives in so short an amount of time? I can think of but a few moments, not including blowing up villainous lairs.) And yes, the music fits the scene very well.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,114
    Yeah. Great scene! I think Martin Campbell likes his Bond to be unhinged during action scenes. Look at Craig in CR too...always hyperactive. Maybe that's why Campbell isn't really a fan of gadgets, so he can focus and unleash Bond's ferocious side.
  • The frequent flyer mileage line was a bit land. Bit too much of an American expression.
  • edited January 4 Posts: 2,165
    The frequent flyer mileage line was a bit land. Bit too much of an American expression.

    Bond and Q calling a mobile phone a cell phone in TND is perhaps more egregious in my mind 😂
  • Posts: 31
    Rewatched GE tonight for the first time in a long time. Some thoughts.

    Up until LTK release in 1989 there had never been a longer than two year wait in between new films in the series. The six year wait for GE seemed interminable to my childhood self and I believe cost the series valuable traction.

    Nevertheless when GE arrived in 1995 I was among the hyped and in the cinema for it opening week. I still have a one hundred and twenty five page glossy folio style "The Making of GoldenEye" book I picked up at the time. It's a studio promo piece that offers very little insight, but it speaks to the altogether outstanding promotional campaign for the film. Significant TV spots built around some of the films more spectacular set pieces - the tank chase, the bungee jump - must have been a real imposition whilst making the film proper but they served as vital material in the promotional phase to build hype. GE was by no means unique or the first film to take this approach, but it wasn't until the advent of DVD that it really became widespread. (GE was the last Bond film to be released before the arrival of home DVD in 1997.)

    GE was thus able to come together in a very cohesive and straightforward way. In our multi channel and hyper charged world of content on demand this quaint approach to film making and promotion is quite simply impossible.

    My fourteen year old self in the cinema I recall as being pretty delighted with GE. The forty three year old version of myself can't claim the same level of delight, but I can't grumble too much either. This is one of the most fundamentally sound entries in the entire series. Taking into account the circumstances of the time - the unprecedented gap between films, the end of the USSR and Soviet Bloc, significant segment and studio competition and Brosnan being introduced to the role - it is remarkable how sound an entry this film is.

    GE has a claim for having perhaps the most straightforward and easy to understand plot in the entire series. Virtually everybody who interacts with Bond already knows who he is, from the valet who parks his DB5 in Monaco to Zukovsky, a random Russian gangster he needs a favor from in Saint Petersburg to the Russian Defense Minister. This isn't OHMSS, where we get a clever interaction with an incognito Bond and an unsuspecting Blofeld. The six year gap between films likely played a role in this approach, with much of the first act devoted to reintroducing the recast versions of characters we are already familiar with.

    The lack of subterfuge seems to follow almost as a necessity. Like LTK before it we then get an action movie with Bond in it rather than a Fleming-esque Bond movie. Whether this pleases or disappoints you is subjective. Objectively though, this decision gives the film a clarity and a purpose that director Martin Campbell seizes and makes more than adequate use of.

    Although the cold war is over the Soviets are still the bad guys here and the film is the better for it. There is a pumping opening sequence featuring a dramatic bungee jump and our first sequences with Brosnan as Bond. Very soon after we meet 006 Alex Trevelyan - played effortlessly by Sean Bean - and we rush through a dramatic extended opening involving Trevelyans apparent death and a dramatic Bond escape from aforementioned Soviets. We are also introduced to the villainous General Ourumov - portrayed solidly by Gottfried John - who we discover later is merely a sub villain to Trevelyan himself.

    There is a laughable moment where Bond jumps from the mountain side into a plane - a portent for the rest of the Brosnan era - but otherwise this is a very solidly paced and shot beginning for a new Bond. Akin to the introduction to Dalton in TLD. Some very nice opening titles and a "nine years later placeholder" are then followed by the aforementioned first act where we meet Judi Dench fir the first time as M, a new Moneypenny, a new Tanner and the thankfully more familiar Q. We also get an unusually large amount of screen time - for the franchise - not involving Bond at all that introduces both the villains and the important female Bond ally of the story, Natalya Simonova. (Izabella Scorupco)

    Bond does his best but can't quite thwart the theft of a revolutionary new model of military helicopter is the essence of it. Some beautifully paced and shot scenes are here. There is an element of spycraft as Bond is shown following then searching a yacht following the dramatic sexualized death of Admiral Chuck Bennett at the han- err legs of Famke Janssens character, the Georgian pilot and crime associate Xenia Onatopp.

    Dynamic expressions of sexuality do punctuate the series - Ursula Andress in Dr No is literally an iconic cinematic moment, Brosnan himself cited the sight of Shirley Eatons gold painted body in Goldfinger as the minute he fell in love with Bond - and this is Campbells contribution to that canon. It works for me but only because of the depth of Famke Janssens performance. Janssens character of Onatopp effortlessly shifts between extreme femineity and extreme violence with an intensity we have not seen to this point in the series. Janssens performance is the key to this and I suspect the reason for her appearance near the top of a lot of Bond girls lists. Grace Jones this is not.

    Our second act begins in Russia. Felix Leiter went through a lot in LTK so the writers and producers conjured up the character of Jack Wade. The character serves his narrative purpose well enough I suppose, but the casting of Joe Don Baker (villain Whittaker from TLD) was an odd one and probably not the right one. We also meet Zukovsky - played of course by Robbie Coltrane - in an enjoyable scene and then Bond comes face to face with the now scarred Alec Trevelyan and most of his associates.

    There is another escape as the plot forces together Bond and his ally / romantic interest Simonova together then contrives to split them back up. This ignites another pulsating sequence and a visually spectacular tank chase on the streets of St Petersburg as Bond rescues Simonova for the films final act whilst disposing of General Ourumov.

    Its good stuff albeit requiring very little thought. We finally get the Bond theme through the score during the tank chase, which sadly only made me note how timid the score had been to that point. I am one of the minority who actually really enjoyed Michael Kamens score in LTK so I'm certainly not just a Barry booster. But I rate Eric Serra efforts here as almost the definition of insipid.
    Dreary England is no substitute for Russia despite Campbells best efforts. But otherwise there isn't much to complain about through the meat of the film. The pacing remains on point and there is no shortage of action nor an enormous amount of exposition required to explain it.

    The films conclusion is the classic Bond formula of tracking the villain to his hidden secret base. This is standard Bond fare, including the payoff of one of Qs gadgets and an enormous definitive explosion to conclude it. There is an odd decision for Bond to essentially throw Trevelyan to his death but other than that it's fairly standard stuff for the series. The film ends with Jack Wade interrupting Bond getting his groove on Roger Moore style.

    The concluding act is the weakest, punctuated by a sequence inserted as nothing other than paid product placement for BMW and a lack of drama created by the scripts straightforward nature. But neither director Campbell or star Brosnan are responsible for those decisions. And other than the predictable nature of the conclusion, the film doesn't suffer too much for it either. We're left with exactly what was intended - the successful introduction of Brosnan as Bond, Dench as M, the acknowledgment the cold war has ended and the reality that Bond has and will have to continue change with the times.

    I enjoyed this one and it is one of the more crucial Bond films in the canon. This is the first Bond film to mention the internet and the last to have an ashtray on Ms desk for example. Times were changing and Bond needed to get back on screen and show he too could change and remain relevant with them. Thankfully for us Bond fanatics, GE delivered in spades.

    Campbell had directed the underrated utopian Ray Liotta vehicle No Escape (known as Escape From Absolom in some markets) the year prior to GE but otherwise had no major studio film experience. In my view both films are fast paced, entertaining, mature and well made studio action films that showcase Campbells obvious discipline and talent for story telling.

    In retrospect, GE further demonstrates Campbells talent and versatility. This was the first Bond to use CGI. One example being the laughable jump to the plane from the beginning in addition to much of the final fight on a satellite dish between Bond and Trevelyan. But it's sparing use by modern standards with most of the films effects done practically and by a model unit. The CGI content tripled for TND, the Bond film subsequent to GE for example.

    By the time CR was entrusted to Campbell to again announce to the world a new Bond, the whole process of film making was wildly different from GE and in only a little over a decade or so. It's appropriate that the man who has aptly demonstrated his ability to change with the times was entrusted to prove to the world that Bond could do the same.

    Brosnan was a blank canvas as Bond and was a little intimidated by the role. He plays Bond in GE as largely very straight as a result and it really works. Any vulnerability Brosnan felt on playing the role is channeled into an almost reserved nature, something best demonstrated in his scene with Judi Dench in her office.

    The lack of subterfuge in the script means there isn't an opportunity for Brosnan to pretend to be an "“ornithologist—only here for the birds" or similar. This almost Dalton like take on Bond combines to give Brosnan arguably his best take on the character in his run. At his first attempt no less.

    I believe Brosnans overall take on Bond suffered badly from a lack of direction. A combination of a lack of original Fleming material and the end of the cold war era combined to leave the Brosnan era Bond floundering for purpose and consistency. By channeling the last vestiges of the cold war this film overcomes that and elevates itself among its Brosnan brethren. Other than the score it has no really obvious flaws.

    As such it is an entertaining and satisfying addition to the series and a film I shall definitely rewatch more often.









  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,210
    Just shooting in and out to express my love for GE once again. I'm currently enjoying the film, a (more than) annual indulgence since 1995, and I'm having fun with every moment as always. It's still Pierce's best Bond for me. And yes, I like the score -- a lot! Even the music during the little car race near Monaco. I honestly do.
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