NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Posts: 1,098
    I’m glad Arnold didn’t return. He had a five film run. Better to bring in new blood.

    But Arnold was still on top of his game, even after 5 films.........i mean Barry wasn't sidelined after 5 films. I think it was all down to Mendes, as he wanted his own composer for his Bond films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    mepal1 wrote: »
    I’m glad Arnold didn’t return. He had a five film run. Better to bring in new blood.

    But Arnold was still on top of his game, even after 5 films.........i mean Barry wasn't sidelined after 5 films. I think it was all down to Mendes, as he wanted his own composer for his Bond films.

    David Arnold isn’t John Barry. I rather see EON keep a revolving door of composers. There’s so much talent out there. I rather not see it wasted on just one composer.

    Also it was actually Newman who asked for the gig once he heard the news of Mendes being hired.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,783
    mepal1 wrote: »
    I’m glad Arnold didn’t return. He had a five film run. Better to bring in new blood.

    But Arnold was still on top of his game, even after 5 films.........i mean Barry wasn't sidelined after 5 films. I think it was all down to Mendes, as he wanted his own composer for his Bond films.

    If it hadn't been for Mendes the producers would have kept Arnold. Babs praises Arnold's work on CR in the Being James Bond documentary.
  • Arnold should return. It would be nice for him to at least compose the next Bond film for the reboot.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,319
    <delete>
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    mepal1 wrote: »
    I’m glad Arnold didn’t return. He had a five film run. Better to bring in new blood.

    But Arnold was still on top of his game, even after 5 films.........i mean Barry wasn't sidelined after 5 films. I think it was all down to Mendes, as he wanted his own composer for his Bond films.

    If it hadn't been for Mendes the producers would have kept Arnold. Babs praises Arnold's work on CR in the Being James Bond documentary.

    And yet they went with Zimmer anyway, despite that praise for Arnold.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,783
    Arnold should return. It would be nice for him to at least compose the next Bond film for the reboot.

    Definitely on the cards. 👍
  • Posts: 1,098
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 23
    OHMSS influence in the NTTD soundtrack from what I can hear:

    - Matera (We Have All The Time In The World)
    - Good To Have You Back (OHMSS theme)
    - Norway Chase, Poison Garden, The Factory and I'll Be Right Back (Gumbold's Safe motif)

    The last 20 seconds of The Factory definitely sounds like Gumbold's Safe.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,846
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,319
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    No, no , no! Ah I know you aren't a fan of Arnold MP, but no!

    John Barry loved Arnolds work by the way :

    John Barry, the composer of many of the themes on the album, was complimentary about Arnold's interpretation of his work; "He was very faithful to the melodic and harmonic content, but he's added a whole other rhythmic freshness and some interesting casting in terms of the artists chosen to do the songs. I think it's a terrific album. I'm very flattered."

    Edit; Re: the Shaken and Stirred album, before he got he TND gig.
  • I do like Arnold's Bond soundtracks, but his 'Shaken Not Stirred' album was horrible to my ears. I think that's the album that Barry was talking about it that quote.
  • Posts: 1,098
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.

    Sorry but definitely not..........the score Serra used for the car chase between Bond and Onatopp was silly. Anyway has Serra ever scored a Bond film since. No of course not. That must say something?.........:)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,846
    Part of why GE stands out for the Brosnan era to me is because Serra brings a sound and mood to it that feels integral to the themes and story. I get nothing out of Arnold’s efforts. His scores are part of why the latter three films blend together as something generic. That’s why his music is pastiche. I don’t get much elation out of that.

    That’s why I rank the scores by Hamlisch, Conti, Kamen, Serra, Newman, and now Zimmer higher. They use the Bond sound but not at the expense of their own distinctive sound. It’s the Bond sound done their way, as opposed to Arnold trying to preserve the Barry sound.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    I have a Bond playlist on Spotify and the tunes for TWINE/DAD/CR all run together for me. TND and QoS aren't there for whatever reason. A few cues stick out, like I recognize the overdramatic Icarus motif and when it gets a little tribal I know it's the opening chase of CR, but other than that... Arnold is very samey.
  • Posts: 811
    OHMSS influence in the NTTD soundtrack from what I can hear:

    - Matera (We Have All The Time In The World)
    - Good To Have You Back (OHMSS theme)
    - Norway Chase, Poison Garden, The Factory and I'll Be Right Back (Gumbold's Safe motif)

    The last 20 seconds of The Factory definitely sounds like Gumbold's Safe.

    Yeah, I can hear that a bit.

    In fact that particular theme/motif/sound that Hans uses throughout the score just...generally sounds very OHMSS inspired. As that's my favourite Bond score, hearing NTTD full through was like a dream the first time.

    Those ambient evil vibes...sweeping strings...absolutely stinging and powerful horns....just a dream for me.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,311
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.

    You must be joking. Serra's effort was -awful.- No connection to anything remotely 007ish. Arnold, on the other hand, brought his retro A game to TND. Not a single redeeming track on GE except for the title song, which is excellent.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 6,846
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.

    You must be joking. Serra's effort was -awful.- No connection to anything remotely 007ish. Arnold, on the other hand, brought his retro A game to TND. Not a single redeeming track on GE except for the title song, which is excellent.

    I disagree. I don’t want a retro score. I want something unique that fits the individual film rather than conform to the franchise. Eric Serra’s score wouldn’t work for any other Bond film, but it fits like a glove on GE.

    The idea of GE featuring a David Arnold score sounds painful to me.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 559
    I like the scores that are identifiable from the others. Serra's definitely does that with the industrial sounds, but there are elements (like his original tank chase) that do make me cringe or feel very out of place.

    I would argue that of the Arnold scores, DAD is most unique in that he doubled down on the electronic/techno theme pulled from Madonna's song. There's nothing quite of that flavor the rest of the Bond canon. I still like his QOS and CR scores, mainly because he relies less on frantic electronic noises in his action cues and they have strong melodies that appear throughout. I would say that his first scores do come across as more pastiche, especially TND.

    To bring this full circle, I think Zimmer's is unique when compare to the rest of the Bond films. That said, it is not relative to his other scores, so I do have little pause with him doing another (perhaps its just Spectre haunting me). However, if he was given more time to compose, I think he probably would do less cut and paste.

    And while I'd agree that Arnold isn't the caliber of Newman or Zimmer, he does 'get' Bond. To me it makes a lot of sense for him to score the next one. He said he'd sharpen the pencil and I'd love nothing more than to see what he's got.
  • My Craig era soundtrack ranking:
    CR
    QoS
    NTTD
    SF
    SP
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    My ranking would probably be:

    SF
    NTTD
    SP
    QOS
    CR
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited October 2021 Posts: 22,004
    The Craig era soundtracks:

    1) QOS
    2) CR
    3) NTTD
    4) SP
    5) SF

    Please don't take this as damnation of Newman's music. I can't say I think of his efforts as harshly as others sometimes do. In fact, I truly like his SP music. But 'mature' Arnold really made me a fan of his work in the Craig Bonds, with QOS an atmospheric, ambient, sober yet delightful entry in the series. CR is a close second, replete with strong themes and awesome action music. He also understood the proper balance between teasing the Bond Theme without quite handing it to us just yet.

    Zimmer did well, in my opinion. Here's another case of a mature composer delivering good work. Long gone are the days when Zimmer and his soundtrack factory were squeezing out similar-sounding soundtracks, one after the other, for Michael Bay films and other blockbusters. Zimmer has firmly established himself as a composer who is brilliant when he's at his most minimalistic, and one of the few who can turn "ambient" into a good thing. His NTTD score, furthermore, doesn't shy away from queuing in a few Zimmerisms, but at the same time, he seems to be staying in touch with the Bond scores that preceded his own.

    Newman was operating outside his box when he did SF and SP, at least IMO, but while some have responded to his scores with third-degree hostilities, I've always taken them as pretty fine (SF) or even really good (SP). Newman has some strengths too. Music from SP like Bond and Lucia, L'Americain, love on the train, ... is very romantic and classy, almost Barry-esque. I understand the disappointment but not the resentment when it comes to Newman. He didn't "suck", at least not in my opinion.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    The resentment always struck me as those being upset that the so called “anointed one” David Arnold was put aside for someone else. Zimmer already had credentials in the action department and it’s very telling that even though his scores share the very same DNA as Newman’s work, he doesn’t get the same resentment because he actually used John Barry cues so that pretty much “exonerated” him.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 588
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.
    The score that plays between Bond and Paris in the hotel room is a gorgeous and evocative piece of music. Always stuck with me ever since I first heard it. It’s a beautiful piece of romantic music in a film that is otherwise heavy on the action music (which is great too, of course). I know some don’t like that particular scene or feel that there is no chemistry between Brosnan and Hatcher. I personally don’t feel that way at all. But that’s a different issue. But the music itself is perfect!

    Classic Arnold! In fact we wouldn’t get something like this until the love theme between Bond and Vesper. “City of Lovers” is the one I’m thinking of.
  • Posts: 5,863
    vzok wrote: »

    Thank you!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns The Bright Side of the Road.
    Posts: 19,462
    Just listening to Cuba Chase on my 350 Watt Dolby Atmos speakers this has got some aggressive power this track, starting to become a favourite.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,586
    mepal1 wrote: »
    Arnold just has the knack for Bond scores........remember prior to him coming aboard for TND, Eric Serra had scored GE, and generally i think it was one of the very few weak points of that film, the film was basically underscored and with some inappropriate tracks in places. Then along came Arnold and his score for TND, it was terrific, it really drove the film. His other Bond scores were very good, and his score for QOS was one of the few good highlights of the film. Remember Arnold also remade the score of OHMSS with the Propellor Heads?........then came Mendes with composer Newman, his scores were fine but seemed workmanlike and not dramatic enough to be remembered. Anyway all i'am saying is Arnold would be a good choice for a future Bond.

    Eric Serra’s effort was better than anything Arnold accomplished.

    My issue with Arnold is he that while he may know how to play the Bond sound it’s not the same as knowing how to score a film. Scenes like with Bond and Paris Carver at the hotel room are ruined by Arnold’s over-dramatic approach.

    Knowing how to score a film is more important than knowing the Bond sound. That’s the difference between a real composer like John Barry and a lesser one like David Arnold.
    The score that plays between Bond and Paris in the hotel room is a gorgeous and evocative piece of music. Always stuck with me ever since I first heard it. It’s a beautiful piece of romantic music in a film that is otherwise heavy on the action music (which is great too, of course). I know some don’t like that particular scene or feel that there is no chemistry between Brosnan and Hatcher. I personally don’t feel that way at all. But that’s a different issue. But the music itself is perfect!

    Classic Arnold! In fact we wouldn’t get something like this until the love theme between Bond and Vesper. “City of Lovers” is the one I’m thinking of.

    I quite like the Bond and Paris cue, too. I've seen it get a bad rap a few times but I never got on board with the criticism. I enjoy it a lot.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 6,846
    The hotel scene is a prime example of over-writing when it comes to scoring, the best composers like Barry knew when to pull back and not oversaturate.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,783
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The Craig era soundtracks:

    1) QOS
    2) CR
    3) NTTD
    4) SP
    5) SF

    Please don't take this as damnation of Newman's music. I can't say I think of his efforts as harshly as others sometimes do. In fact, I truly like his SP music. But 'mature' Arnold really made me a fan of his work in the Craig Bonds, with QOS an atmospheric, ambient, sober yet delightful entry in the series. CR is a close second, replete with strong themes and awesome action music. He also understood the proper balance between teasing the Bond Theme without quite handing it to us just yet.

    Zimmer did well, in my opinion. Here's another case of a mature composer delivering good work. Long gone are the days when Zimmer and his soundtrack factory were squeezing out similar-sounding soundtracks, one after the other, for Michael Bay films and other blockbusters. Zimmer has firmly established himself as a composer who is brilliant when he's at his most minimalistic, and one of the few who can turn "ambient" into a good thing. His NTTD score, furthermore, doesn't shy away from queuing in a few Zimmerisms, but at the same time, he seems to be staying in touch with the Bond scores that preceded his own.

    Newman was operating outside his box when he did SF and SP, at least IMO, but while some have responded to his scores with third-degree hostilities, I've always taken them as pretty fine (SF) or even really good (SP). Newman has some strengths too. Music from SP like Bond and Lucia, L'Americain, love on the train, ... is very romantic and classy, almost Barry-esque. I understand the disappointment but not the resentment when it comes to Newman. He didn't "suck", at least not in my opinion.

    The Zimmer score is growing on me and he did well consider the time he had. The OHMSS stuff is still jarring though.

    I still prefer Newman's SF score.

    But none of them come close to the CR and QOS scores.
  • I have now seen the film twice and have listened to the score a few times. I listened to the score the first time without having seen the film. I may have been a bit harsh on my first listen. The score works well in the film and there are a number of tracks on the album that are growing on me. The Cuba Chase (or Cuba Battle) is a highlight and I really enjoy the cue when the DB5 starts firing in the square. I like it when this cue repeats a number of times on the album and in the film. I still feel though there are a few themes missing for certain characters (unless someone can correct me). Where is Matilde's theme or Naomi's theme. SF had for example à theme for Severine and SP had a theme for MADELINE and Lucia.
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