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Fair enough and well-put. You can't win them all ;)
And indeed I quite like the first part and that's why I have it slightly higher now than before.
For me it's not always clear where the third act begins, but that sounds like a great idea for a thread!
In here, obviously SP…
Agreed. I think it's similar to QoS in that it has a much worse reputation than it warrants since it was not up to the level of the film that preceded it. Unlike QoS, though, the retconning aspect of Spectre really tarnishes the film as it really impacts the Craig era as a whole.
Sounds more like controversial opinions thread material than underrated movies. Unless you are counting them as being part of the film as a whole being underrated.
I'm curious in what way you view the car chase as misunderstood. I have my own ideas as to why it doesn't work but I'm wondering about your claim.
Indeed. This thread could probably be combined with the controversial opinions thread.
Lately I find SP on the whole a little underrated. I quite enjoyed it the last time I watched it.
I won't speak for QBranch, but as a crazy lover of Spectre, I'd definitely say it's underrated and I can imagine what QBranch might mean in terms of the car chase being misunderstood. The scene is largely an exposition scene with a bit of light comedy, all in the context of a car chase--a car chase that happens early in the movie, and as such, is a bit lower stakes than some people seem to think it should be.
I think the viewer is not meant to be any more nervous than Bond is in the scene, which is to say, not very. In fact, I'd say it's a pretty good rule of thumb that if Bond himself isn't much worried about his predicament, you're not supposed to be on the edge of your seat either. So I think the misunderstanding comes from viewer expectations, and I would say that viewer expectations are a key factor in disliking the movie as a whole.
I have similar feelings about MR.
Definitely agree about DN and especially TB. TB was the first truly spectacular widescreen Bond film but it still had Terence Young's style from the first two. Plus it has Connery at his apex in the role surrounded by the best group of Bond girls to appear in a single 007 film. It's also relatively faithful to its source novel and deserves to be ranked alongside FRWL, OHMSS and CR'06 IMHO.
Exactly. DAF isn't really trying to be a true sequel to OHMSS. If anything it should be seen as a sequel to YOLT to complete Connery's tenure in the official series.
+1. I've always found it fascinating to see MR get pilloried for being OTT, comic book-ish, sci-fi and derivative by fans who praise TSWLM.(Disclaimer: I love both films).
+1
Personally speaking I find it the most enjoyable of Craig's post-CR Bond films.
I've read this criticism from many fans but except for TWINE and DAD I've generally enjoyed the other final 3rd acts you've referenced.
Another +1. TSWLM is at least as silly as MR. And it takes itself more seriously.
Even more ridiculous is when people think Jaws was somehow not a ridiculous joke of a character in TSWLM but somehow became that suddenly in MR.
What that car chase does that's damaging is it largely undermines the tone Mendes tried to set from the mostly serious first part of the film and the creepy vibe of the SPECTRE board meeting that built up some suspense to throwing it all away with what feels like a gag left over from the Moore or Brosnan era.
It could've worked with just a couple of light moments but it piles on and feels as if it's from an entirely different movie, and in the process makes Hinx, the henchman with the most potential in years, into another version of Jaws. While we're at it with the jokes, why not throw in the drinking guy from the Moore movies checking his bottle or glass as Hinx walks away unscathed.
While this doesn't ruin SP for me, in fact I enjoy it in some ways more than SF, it doesn't help and I cannot call the film underrated due to that, Brofeld and one of the most underwhelming finales of the series. Nothing to misunderstand.
Well, if you go through the history of the Bond films, you'll find that James Bond is not often clearly perturbed by whatever danger he may be in. That just goes back to Sean and Roger. As to why you should care about a scene that lacks intense action or violence, I would again point to the expository nature of the scene, the couple of humorous moments, and the possible aesthetic appeal of looking at these two cars race around Rome. Theoretically, you're supposed to be curious about what Bond is curious about in his call to Moneypenny, and you're supposed to chuckle at a couple of jokes.
I'm not sure how the scene exactly "piles on" light moments or how Jaws-like Hinx is. Hinx doesn't really screw up at all or drop rocks on his foot or anything. He fails to catch James Bond because James Bond is driving a super gadget car. Which is a pretty Bondian thing to do.
Were you hoping it'd be more like the QOS chase? That's the only one I can think of where Bond actually seemed all that concerned about the danger he was in....
EDIT: Actually, with regard to humor, everything about the DB10 in the movie is used for comic effect. It's introduced with a joke and it's stolen by Bond for a joke and an obscenity from Q. Gadget cars are best used with a cool, calm Bond, and a bit of humor, and they always have been used that way.
-Bond is cool under fire, it's why we like him. Here he's a bit too nonchalant. Here's a villain who Bond just saw crush a guys eyes in, can we not fear him a little more? Craig's Bond has been different to his predecessors and here it's like they tried to shoehorn in a tribute to them. Bond is a much more interesting character, at least to me, when he has to use his wits to get out of a situation rather than having a convenient gadget, which this scene is ultimately about.
-In short, yeah, I'd much rather it be like the QoS chase where it was exciting and dangerous. I didn't feel any danger in this scene. So why include it? I can watch cars racing around in a great city in any number of pictures and there's nothing particularly special about it here, especially considering the streets are largely empty. It's where the MI series is superior to Bond when you consider Fallout's chase through the very crowded streets of Paris.
-Again, it's more than a couple of jokes. I like the freshness of not having all the gadgets work. But stick to it, don't suddenly have one work that leads to the solution. Piling on also includes the old guy and the airbag, the who's having the sleepover at Moneypenny's conversation and lastly the ejector parachute and walking down the street ending. Moore would've done this sequence to perfection. Those days are over.
-As far as Hinx Jaws moments go, no he doesn't incorporate the humor directly, but walking out of a car that's just been torched with no emotion, unscathed is flashback time to that character. A little emotion would've gone a long way. Thankfully, we get a resolution in the train fight that made up for this.
-I'd have much preferred this chase being halved and a conversation with Moneypenny to place more emphasis on the Pale King separately. Here is feels secondary to the chase.
Well, to return to the original point about "misunderstanding", maybe that isn't the best word, but it does sound like you just want something fundamentally different to what the film wants to do. If you prefer a Fallout-style chase to a James Bond-style chase, that's just a completely different type of scene you want. The film didn't screw up. Spectre begins with a traditional M scene, then a funny Q scene. It ends up in a crater base. It's leaning into the traditional style promised by Skyfall. It's not Fallout. To me, this isn't really different to me saying "CR's Venice sequence sucks because it's not funny" (that's not my view of course! The sequence sucks for other reasons...!)
Anyway, if you think Spectre needed more unembellished exposition scenes (!), or that we would "fear Hinx" more if he stumbled out his car wounded and emotional in the first act (!), then we definitely agree to disagree!
I think this all gels with my previously stated view that Spectre is underrated, and that underratedness stems from viewer expectations.
The chase in DN is terrible and personally I think the lowest point of the whole of TB is the ‘chase’ where Bond’s car just sits there on an empty road like a duck in a shooting gallery and Fiona’s motorbike fires a missile at it.
Even GF’s chase around the factory is a bit off somehow.
IMO the only good car chases are few and far between, like OHMSS and (yes) QOS.
So SP’s chase is just following in a long tradition of slightly tension-less car chases in Bond films.
That's kind of a less charitable version of what I'm saying, yeah. :))
I give Spectre credit for at least having the chase serve other purposes and look nice.
FYEO has a great car chase too, and if we're counting trucks, so does LTK. One I do think that is rather fun and gets often overlooked is the one from TMWTGG.
Yeah. The outlandish location makes it very distinctive. And at times, it looks like the chase is on another planet.
Yes, Bond and Zao in a gadget duel near the ice fountains on Saturn's moon Enceladus...
agreed, it's a fantastic chase sequence, with a great score as well. The cello scene directly afterwards is also very well-done.