No Time to Die production thread

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  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,969
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    No one would care.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2021 Posts: 5,834
    I mean it's definitely the role that's the "problem" to those triggered by her and the way she's being characterised. Again, the reason I have a problem with this, is that many roles have had that relationship with 007, but it seems because it's coming from a woman, and all these people have seen is her "undermine" him, it's somehow a problem.

    It's why I expressed interest in seeing the train scene with Vesper or a scene with Felix in Casino Royale isolated within a marketing campaign in the context of #MeToo and #BLM, to see how people would react.

    My theory is that it's not the filmmakers attempting to be woke, it's the context of "woke" surrounding new and interesting ideas that then clouds peoples judgement. In my opinion.
  • Posts: 1,545
    With regard to the directed energy attacks, this would be yet another example of Truth Being Stranger than Fiction. Going all the way back to DN, the story involved a non-national mastermind using rocket failures to get several countries suspicious of each other and angry with each other. In the present real world, a perpetrator could be one or more of any number of non-national organizations or persons. Perhaps not someone as dramatic as Safin, with as interesting a lair, of course...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2021 Posts: 14,861
    talos7 wrote: »
    @mtm there is just something that really touches a nerve in some fans about someone else being 007; it doesn’t mater if that person is Black, White, Asia, Male, Female...

    I'm not sure: the original script for Bond 15 had a 007 before Bond, as did the Forever And A Day book and I've never seen anyone react angrily to those ideas before. Plus Bond has had his licence to kill (and hence 007 number) taken away a couple of times in the films as well: again, I've not seen anyone react angrily to those things.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D

    I must admit, if they changed it to 'James Bond 007 Will Return' I wouldn't mind, because there's something nicely cheesy about that :)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    I agree 100%

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    I really like Naomie Harris as Moneypenny, I hope we get a Bond/Moneypenny scene in NTTD. Naomie has a warm screen presence and an electric chemistry with Daniel, it would be a shame to waste it
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I really like Naomie Harris as Moneypenny, I hope we get a Bond/Moneypenny scene in NTTD. Naomie has a warm screen presence and an electric chemistry with Daniel, it would be a shame to waste it

    Yes, with a bit of healthy flirtation.

  • edited May 2021 Posts: 669
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

  • edited May 2021 Posts: 669
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.
    A very good point, Talos! You're not wrong.
    I suppose instead of shallow I really meant "cruel," because it seems cruel that Lynch would be judged more harshly than an actress who might be considered "prettier."
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,255
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,879
    I remember watching Lynch on that GQ lie test video, and she was very likeable.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    peter wrote: »
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!
    +1.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    peter wrote: »
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!

    I think she seems very cool.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.

    I basically agree with what you’re saying, although the wet tee shirt comments is a bit ludicrous. No, not every Bond girl/woman needs to look like a supermodel, but like spectacular locations, impressive stunts, a great score and more, beautiful women are part of the appeal; obviously all of these are subjective.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Beautiful women are part of the appeal, and we’ve already got Ana de Armas and Lea Seydoux. Why does having Lynch cast ruin that?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Yes, Spectre only had two Bond women, didn't it?
  • Posts: 928
    peter wrote: »
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!

    I get that vibe too from the trailer's Jamaica scenes- a sultry energy.

    It's looking like a fun group of female characters this time around, all for the better.
  • phantomvicesphantomvices Mother Base
    edited May 2021 Posts: 469
    peter wrote: »
    I find Lynch very attractive. Tall and striking, with an incredible voice, she carries herself very confidently, so much so, in the little I've seen of her in NTTD ads and trailers, I can't keep my eyes off of her.

    She's quite sultry as she struts by in the night club scene, and a sense of good humoured cockiness when she's in the Aston, pulling the sunglasses down and raising eyebrows at Bond.

    Am I the only one, lol?!?!

    I get that vibe too from the trailer's Jamaica scenes- a sultry energy.

    It's looking like a fun group of female characters this time around, all for the better.

    I'm not too warm on Lynch's appearance, like I don't really care for it, but her voice is downright grating. Especially in the trailer, where she sounds like she's trying too hard to make it sound tough.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.

    There's also the whole thing with de Armas' star power exploding since she finished filming NTTD and Lynch kind of stalling a tiny bit in the intervening time. To a degree, because NTTD was to be her star turn.
    As was pointed out on the last James Bond & Friends Podcast: Imdb sorts their cast list by their own "starmeter" algorithm (and I know that isn't exact science). Ana de Armas is first for NTTD. Lynch is 11th. Many people will be really confused when Lashana Lynch is in 2/3rds of the film and de Armas is in it for 4 minutes. She is much more famous at the moment.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    To anyone that gets upset that de Armas is only in it as much as Sylvia Trench:


    tenor.gif


    If you want more of her, just watch more movies with her or follow her Instagram.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.

    There's also the whole thing with de Armas' star power exploding since she finished filming NTTD and Lynch kind of stalling a tiny bit in the intervening time. To a degree, because NTTD was to be her star turn.
    As was pointed out on the last James Bond & Friends Podcast: Imdb sorts their cast list by their own "starmeter" algorithm (and I know that isn't exact science). Ana de Armas is first for NTTD. Lynch is 11th. Many people will be really confused when Lashana Lynch is in 2/3rds of the film and de Armas is in it for 4 minutes. She is much more famous at the moment.

    On that basis I think NTTD is quite interesting because they cast Rami Malek right when he was at his starriest (he'd just won the Oscar) and if it had come out on time they would have looked right on the money, whereas now it feels like he's that guy we all heard about a couple of years ago :D
  • Posts: 669
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.

    I completely agree with everything you said here. However, the point I was responding to, which was originally made by @GadgetMan , is that the character of Nomi being 007 might have been more amenable to "the masses" - or even to more Bond fans in general - if she was more traditionally beautiful. This may or may not be the case, but I thought it was an interesting point worth considering.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    talos7 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I honestly think it has to do with Lynch not being beautiful enough. And nothing to do with the colour of her skin. Harris wasn't lambasted as the first black Moneypenny, if I can remember. Not just because she knew how to act, but because she was beautiful. And because she was beautiful, nobody complained when she shot Bond. Just imagine what would have been, if Nomi shot Bond.

    As shallow as it sounds, I think you are probably on to something. It makes me wonder what might have happened had the more traditionally beautiful Lupita Nyong'o been cast as originally intended, before the delays made her unavailable.

    Shallow? Not at all; it’s just human nature. Who would a majority of women find more attractive, Brad Pitt or someone like Ron Perlman or a less obvious Michael Shannon.

    I don’t think Lynch’s character is meant to be ogled at like a traditional Bond babe. She was cast to play convincing 00 agent badass, not someone that’s expected to win a wet t-shirt contest.

    Or is EVERY female in Bond supposed to look like a supermodel unless they’re Bunt or Klebb? I see a lot of fans have trouble grasping that, which is why I’ve seen suggestions like how Lynch should have been a henchwoman and that Ana de Armas should have been the new 007. Because Ana has more supermodel looks that makes her more “acceptable” in fans’ eyes.

    I completely agree with everything you said here. However, the point I was responding to, which was originally made by @GadgetMan , is that the character of Nomi being 007 might have been more amenable to "the masses" - or even to more Bond fans in general - if she was more traditionally beautiful. This may or may not be the case, but I thought it was an interesting point worth considering.
    @PDJamesBond I strongly agree.
    Of course, all of this is subjective.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Not to say I don't like Nomi (frankly we haven't seen the film yet) but just going off the trailer and she is potentially taking over Bond's code number, I think the narrative is built so we see it from Bond's perspective.
    They want us to step in Bond's shoes and see a young, cocky, rookie agent who has taken something familiar to us (007) dismiss her ability and grow to like/trust her and I think see ourselves in her, finally root for her.
    Hopefully the story and character are well written so we can go on this journey throughout the film
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,890
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Not to say I don't like Nomi (frankly we haven't seen the film yet) but just going off the trailer and she is potentially taking over Bond's code number, I think the narrative is built so we see it from Bond's perspective.
    They want us to step in Bond's shoes and see a young, cocky, rookie agent who has taken something familiar to us (007) dismiss her ability and grow to like/trust her and I think see ourselves in her, finally root for her.
    Hopefully the story and character are well written so we can go on this journey throughout the film

    Absolutely...
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    ...which in turn @Jordo007 is probably one of the many reasons Phoebe was hired.
  • Posts: 2,491
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007.

    I still don't see the issue. Bond is the hero of the films, even when he calls himself Sterling or Somerset or whatever he's still the same guy. 007 isn't a superhero name: it's not like a new character taking over as Batman or anything. That even happens sometimes and people don't get upset.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I think that's where most not 'in-the-know' people got pissed about. Of course we knew Nomi wasn't JAMES BOND, she just had the designation 007. But others didn't and as I said before with the botched way that people are trying for inclusivity nowadays people got spooked and ran with the rumor.

    I think that's more telling about the intelligence of these people than it is about films pushing for inclusivity: you can literally read comments under an article which explicitly says she's not playing Bond and they'll be complaining that they don't want a black, female Bond and they won't see the film :D These aren't geniuses.
    patb wrote: »
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.

    She writes good dialogue so I'm fairly hopeful about that.

    Yeah, you're right, it's not like 007 is everything to the franchise.

    It's not like the movie is translated as 007: _____ or 007 vs ____ in many countries in the world.

    It's not like the official logo (what the bat is for Batman) for James Bond is actually the 007 with a gunbarrel

    It's not like Q, M, or many other characters in the movie refer to him as 007.

    I mean..you know what, it doesn't matter what me or you think.

    Let's see if they said something about this on their facebook page.

    What was it?

    Oh yeah facebook dot com slash JamesBond007 ......fuck, ok, maybe they do have 007, but they also have James Bond!!!!

    See, 007 is not THE BRAND for this entire franchise it's 007 + James Bond!

    So..umm...

    Yeah, let's see if they did something on twitter about this.


    What's their twitter? @Jame...oh no, it isn't it's....... @007

    hmmm....so their entire brand on twitter is 007?

    ...oh well, who cares, Twitter is overrated anyways.

    Let's go to the official website and see if they have something to say.

    Their website being.... 007.com?

    And they have a 007 shop on it? Not a "James Bond Shop" but "007 shop"

    Hmm...
    It's almost as if 007 IS the brand for this massive franchise and casting a new 007 is just like Batman changing his name to FlyingDarkCreatureMan cause..."hey, it's all about Bruce Wayne, the name "Batman" is not important, it's just a code name"

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