No Time to Die production thread

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  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,548
    Has anyone been following these reports of directed energy attacks in the U.S.?
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,018
    TripAces wrote: »
    Has anyone been following these reports of directed energy attacks in the U.S.?

    Yes sir. Fresh article from today

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/04/politics/lawmaker-anger-cia-energy-attacks/index.html
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.

    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
  • Posts: 1,215
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.

    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.

    That's all speculation at this point. Frankly we don't even know if shse's 007 at all, let alone for how much of the film. My personal guess is that she is 007 and that she will be for the entirety of the film. I feel like stripping her of that midway through the film defeats the purpose and cheapens it a little bit.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I'm excited for the Jamaica sequence to see Bond relaxing (most probably bored) trying to live a normal life. It's something we rarely see in Bond films in recent years
    Too many great looking moments to discuss. I think the entire Cuba sequence is going to be a real highlight...

    Three competent MI6/CIA agents, two of which are in formal attire, carrying out an action-filled mission during a possible SPECTRE meeting at an extravagant party in Cuba? Um... yes please.

    Yeah the Cuba sequence is the one I'm most looking forward to, it looks like it's going to be filled with classic Bond moments. Hopefully it's not Paloma's only scene, although it seems likely.
    I really believe with all the action in this film, it'll be worth the wait
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.

    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    I feel like stripping her of that midway through the film defeats the purpose and cheapens it a little bit.
    +1
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.

    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.

    That's all speculation at this point. Frankly we don't even know if shse's 007 at all, let alone for how much of the film. My personal guess is that she is 007 and that she will be for the entirety of the film. I feel like stripping her of that midway through the film defeats the purpose and cheapens it a little bit.

    Well yes, to be honest that would be my guess too. I can't imagine a story reason where Bond would get his code number back, because it's just an arbitrary number: it doesn't matter.
    Maybe, if they feel that Bond needs to be 007 in each movie, we might have a situation where Nomi (having gained respect for Bond) decides herself to ask M to give it back to Bond one last time. There would be ways of doing that without making it as cheesy as it sounds! :D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited May 2021 Posts: 8,000
    Mallory wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.

    I hope it resembles something like a 'Lethal Weapon' foe to friendship. They say that they're trying to go for a buddy cop spin, and I also suspect that Nomi will be the first non sexual female buddy of Bond's - she might even fill in a sort of Felix role.

    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    Given Phoebe Waller Bridge was brought onboard to re-write the female characters, you would hope that she cleverer that just reverting to type.

    I'm very worried about PWB.

    Her writing is decent - it captures you, but her jokes and humor fall flat to me. At their worst, they are basically the female version of frat boy toilet humor. Especially if you watch Fleabag - the drama and her breakdown in the last few episodes is written fantastically but everything before is just dull sexual humor and laughing at cringe/awkwardness. Killing Eve is better by a small margin and the dynamic between the two leads has potential, but again the comedy is just boring to me - just 'look at this gender-based thing I experience wow! Isn't it funny?!'

    Sorry to fans of her, but I see her humor as a higher class female version of Adam Sandler humor; mostly based around sex, bodily functions and social failure.

    She was hired because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE more so than FLEABAG.
  • Posts: 2,491
    Sorry if this is off topic...but are there any new plans about a massive box set like Bond 50? Or would we have to wait for Bond 100?

    Seeing as how with NTTD a big era ends ...maybe it would be a good idea to release a box set of all the Bonds so far (4k maybe??)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Nothing official yet. I do wanna at least get a box set of all the 25 films in 4K on one set and from then on just buy the new movies individually.

    That Bond 50 set is cool, but it’ll always feel incomplete because doesn’t have all of Craig’s films.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2021 Posts: 7,969
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.

    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.

    Exactly, and I wouldn't want to see that again in 2021 either.

    But my main point is that certain fans seem to enjoy pointing out how people have a problem with the character, and seem to subtly suggest that prejudice is behind it. But for my money its the characters role in the movie, and not her skin colour, is to answer for this. No one is complaining about De Armas because her role seems completely different and more like a traditional Bond girl. I'm willing to bet that if the actresses switched places, then Nomi would be more accepted. As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time. Its not surprising that fans would find such a character irritating, and there needn't be any cause or malicious motive behind it. The argument of "it because she is black lady" doesn't hold much water for me.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,889
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2021 Posts: 5,834
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.
    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time.
    This does make me think if our only glimpse of Vesper and Felix in Casino Royale was her reprimanding Bond and his introduction, and the film was released after #MeToo and #BLM, what the reaction would be? Because to me, Nomi is just a mixture of both those characters in terms of the type introduction and interaction, and people should wait to see the film before they decide what the persons role is and whether the character should appear at all?

    It also makes me wonder if whether people would have been more accepting if Nomi was just a male role, and played by someone like Idris Elba. Would that be a cool parallel and interesting route for one film in the franchise like I see Nomi?
  • phantomvicesphantomvices Mother Base
    Posts: 469
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I think that's where most not 'in-the-know' people got pissed about. Of course we knew Nomi wasn't JAMES BOND, she just had the designation 007. But others didn't and as I said before with the botched way that people are trying for inclusivity nowadays people got spooked and ran with the rumor.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    edited May 2021 Posts: 251
    [/quote]

    I'm very worried about PWB.

    Her writing is decent - it captures you, but her jokes and humor fall flat to me. At their worst, they are basically the female version of frat boy toilet humor. Especially if you watch Fleabag - the drama and her breakdown in the last few episodes is written fantastically but everything before is just dull sexual humor and laughing at cringe/awkwardness. Killing Eve is better by a small margin and the dynamic between the two leads has potential, but again the comedy is just boring to me - just 'look at this gender-based thing I experience wow! Isn't it funny?!'

    Sorry to fans of her, but I see her humor as a higher class female version of Adam Sandler humor; mostly based around sex, bodily functions and social failure.[/quote]

    I agree, but I only watched the first episode of Fleabag. Overrated.
  • phantomvicesphantomvices Mother Base
    Posts: 469
    Mallory wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.

    I hope it resembles something like a 'Lethal Weapon' foe to friendship. They say that they're trying to go for a buddy cop spin, and I also suspect that Nomi will be the first non sexual female buddy of Bond's - she might even fill in a sort of Felix role.

    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    Given Phoebe Waller Bridge was brought onboard to re-write the female characters, you would hope that she cleverer that just reverting to type.

    I'm very worried about PWB.

    Her writing is decent - it captures you, but her jokes and humor fall flat to me. At their worst, they are basically the female version of frat boy toilet humor. Especially if you watch Fleabag - the drama and her breakdown in the last few episodes is written fantastically but everything before is just dull sexual humor and laughing at cringe/awkwardness. Killing Eve is better by a small margin and the dynamic between the two leads has potential, but again the comedy is just boring to me - just 'look at this gender-based thing I experience wow! Isn't it funny?!'

    Sorry to fans of her, but I see her humor as a higher class female version of Adam Sandler humor; mostly based around sex, bodily functions and social failure.

    She was hired because of her work on the spy thriller series KILLING EVE more so than FLEABAG.

    I explained that I have the same gripes with Killing Eve as well, though.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I don't either. The casual fan or general moviegoer doesn't remember that Bond quits at the end of Spectre, which sets up the inevitable in NTTD with Nomi. YouTube and other social media is a cesspool regarding the whole idea about Nomi, stating that Fleming would be rolling in his grave, yadda yadda. I guarantee that those people has never even picked up a Bond novel. They're just pissed that certain male dominated franchises are going a more womanly direction, such as the Oceans reboot, Ghostbusters, Terminator etc.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    Posts: 251

    Nothing official yet. I do wanna at least get a box set of all the 25 films in 4K on one set and from then on just buy the new movies individually.

    That Bond 50 set is cool, but it’ll always feel incomplete because doesn’t have all of Craig’s films.

    God, imagine the cost though.
  • edited May 2021 Posts: 4,599
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    patb wrote: »
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.

    Die another day is prime for the former
  • Posts: 928
    I recall in some interview PWB mentioned researching into genetics and biological warfare, and making those concepts in the script more accessible, or something to that effect. So her involvement wasn't just fleshing out the female characters or humour-oriented.

    And the female rookie double-0 concept was reportedly present in the Boyle/Hodge story, so it looks like something EON wanted to do for a while. I forget, but in the Sony leaks, there may have also been a young female agent in some initial ideas for Spectre.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2021 Posts: 14,861
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007.

    I still don't see the issue. Bond is the hero of the films, even when he calls himself Sterling or Somerset or whatever he's still the same guy. 007 isn't a superhero name: it's not like a new character taking over as Batman or anything. That even happens sometimes and people don't get upset.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Seeing these stills shows me nothing that hasn't been done before. It's no different than Jinx or Wai Lin. No one was complaining about those characters

    Those two characters were never presented as the new 007. With that said, I have no problem with the plot element of another agent being given the designation of 007 if Bond has left MI6.

    I think that's where most not 'in-the-know' people got pissed about. Of course we knew Nomi wasn't JAMES BOND, she just had the designation 007. But others didn't and as I said before with the botched way that people are trying for inclusivity nowadays people got spooked and ran with the rumor.

    I think that's more telling about the intelligence of these people than it is about films pushing for inclusivity: you can literally read comments under an article which explicitly says she's not playing Bond and they'll be complaining that they don't want a black, female Bond and they won't see the film :D These aren't geniuses.
    patb wrote: »
    Dialogue and humour are key factors to any great Bond movie IMHO. I'm not worried about PWB but she does bring in another variable (unproven in this genre) so it could go either way. Bad dialogue just makes the teeth grate and can ruin a movie. Good dialogue draws you in and we all have a favourite chunk of dialogue from the Bond legacy. Fingers crossed.

    She writes good dialogue so I'm fairly hopeful about that.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,969
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.
    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time.

    It also makes me wonder if whether people would have been more accepting if Nomi was just a male role, and played by someone like Idris Elba. Would that be a cool parallel and interesting route for one film in the franchise like I see Nomi?

    His name is Felix Lieter.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2021 Posts: 5,834
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I can't wait for the whole Bond/Nomi interaction in Jamaica.
    What I don't want though is Nomi becoming a 'statement' character and falling into the recent trend of flat Mary Sues that can do nothing wrong because of a misguided sense of empowerment. That would do nothing but make her an obnoxious, unlikable character and I don't wish that on Lynch because she knows how to act and can definitely bring a convincing and well rounded character, given a good script that respects writing.

    I also think it's a shame, for example, that Nomi's character is gonna have to work ten times harder than say Paloma who for a lot of fans just needs to be hot.

    Why are some fans always pointing to an imagined double standard?

    One character is supposedly to take the 007 mantle from Bond, whilst the other isn't. That's all there is to it.
    You get that she's just 007 for (maybe even only half of) this film? It's like being annoyed at those 1960s episodes where Alfred dressed up as Batman.
    As it is her only function in the story, or as much as they have let be known, is to be a stone in Bonds (and audiences) shoe the entire time.
    It also makes me wonder if whether people would have been more accepting if Nomi was just a male role, and played by someone like Idris Elba. Would that be a cool parallel and interesting route for one film in the franchise like I see Nomi?
    His name is Felix Leiter.
    ...but we're talking about someone taking over the 007 mantle, like you said yourself. The point I'm trying to explore is if it would be more "palatable" for those who dislike Nomi if the new 007 was a man? Would the apparent issue of her being a "stone in Bond's shoe" even be mentioned if that was the case?

    We'll never know the true answer, but it's an answer worth considering.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited May 2021 Posts: 7,889
    @mtm there is just something that really touches a nerve in some fans about someone else being 007; it doesn’t mater if that person is Black, White, Asia, Male, Female...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    If the new 007 was a white dude I’m 100% confident that those whining about Nomi would respond to that with “oh, that’s an interesting approach”. But because it’s a black female character suddenly it rubs them the wrong way because they’re easily triggered by “woke” stuff.

    At this rate, I hope it turns out to be a triple whammy with her being a lesbian that turns down Bond’s advances. We all saw how that small subset of Bond fans reacted to the mere insinuation that Craig Bond may have been bi-curious.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    I'm fine with someone else being 007 regardless of whether it's a man or woman. It's something a bit different and might be interesting in to watch.
    James Bond is still James Bond regardless of the '00' status. Us Bond fans understand that, the general media don't seem to at times and it makes a good click bait headline.
    What does worry me a little though is how are/have the writers undone it (if indeed they have). What I mean is how does Bond get his '00' status back, presumably at the expense of Nomi losing it, without people getting upset about it. It will have to be quite skillfully done in story to avoid the "woman moves over for the 'proper' 007 to return" shit storm from happening.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2021 Posts: 5,834
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,969
    Denbigh wrote: »
    EON might have to put "James Bond will return as 007" just to make it clear to those you might think Nomi is gonna be our main character going forward haha :D

    To all intents and purposes they aren't wrong though, sadly.
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