DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2021 Posts: 23,449
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Heh, that does look very enjoyable.

    I like the way they don't feel they can say 'from the director of Guardians of the Galaxy' :D

    They did squeeze a Marvel reference into JLTSC though. 😉 A certain tombstone says Ben Parker.

    Of course on the memorial when The Flash and Supes are fighting. Apparently it was not intentional, I watched something recently that pointed it out.

    In a film about absent fathers, I have difficulty believing it was not intentional. But I take your word for it.

    I will try and remember which video it was I heard it on, the guy claimed Snyder said it was pure coincidence though I think you are right, I don't think its a coincidence personally.

    Edited: It may have been Kevin Smith on Fatman Beyond Podcast. I have watched a dozen Spoiler reviews of JL in the last week.

    Kev Smith, god bless him, is one of those go-to people for honest reviews. :)

    Marc Bernardin was surprisingly critical of JL and said he would not watch it again. Kevin Smith loved it, to be honest Kevin Smith loves literally everything he watches lol

    Smith is a fanboy, just like you and I. ;-) And he can get tears in his eyes from seeing something done by Batman, even in a comic book. But man, so can I. My girlfriend sometimes looks at me funny when I'm crying at the end of The Flashpoint Paradox and unsuccessfully trying to hide it from her. ;-)

    That said, Smith can be critical too. His first review of The Dark Knight Rises wasn't at all positive, and neither were his initial responses to MOS or BvS. Like me, he has serious issues with Batman Returns from start to finish. And one of his earlier reviews of The Dark Knight Returns Pt. 1 was, surprisingly enough, not a pure love song either (though his impressions changed quickly.) But Kevin has a soft heart for these things and in the end, he will get excited over the smallest details, pretty much like myself.

    Bernardin, in my opinion, is the better story analyst of the two. He always figures out contradictions, continuity errors and flaws in the writing, motivations of characters... In that sense, he's almost as good a detective as Batman. There are times when I disagree with him, but usually, I have to admit that he has a solid point to make, even if that doesn't necessarily take away all the fun for me.

    As a duo, they can be powerful reviewers who speak from the heart and mind of true fans (unlike Siskel and Ebert way back when), but with one praising all the exciting stuff like a supergeek and the other one maintaining a critical line of thinking which is focused on not overlooking some important flaws.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 14,861
    I guess this will be the more commonly-seen release poster. It's still good, but maybe not quite as fun as the first one.

    Exfa8xUWUAYft0w?format=jpg&name=medium
  • Posts: 9,738
    I just don’t get why the Snyder verse is still kind of limping along I mean Aquaman 2 the Suicide Squad even Shazam feels like it’s part of that universe but we are also getting the Batman but Aflleck is coming back in the flash and rumored hbo max series like I am beyond confused
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I just don’t get why the Snyder verse is still kind of limping along I mean Aquaman 2 the Suicide Squad even Shazam feels like it’s part of that universe but we are also getting the Batman but Aflleck is coming back in the flash and rumored hbo max series like I am beyond confused

    I would say that despite the flaws of the newly christened Snyder-verse, there are a great many things that it did get right that are worth sticking with, even before the recent release of Justice League. That likely is a big part of it.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 23,105
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Heh, that does look very enjoyable.

    I like the way they don't feel they can say 'from the director of Guardians of the Galaxy' :D

    They did squeeze a Marvel reference into JLTSC though. 😉 A certain tombstone says Ben Parker.

    Of course on the memorial when The Flash and Supes are fighting. Apparently it was not intentional, I watched something recently that pointed it out.

    In a film about absent fathers, I have difficulty believing it was not intentional. But I take your word for it.

    I will try and remember which video it was I heard it on, the guy claimed Snyder said it was pure coincidence though I think you are right, I don't think its a coincidence personally.

    Edited: It may have been Kevin Smith on Fatman Beyond Podcast. I have watched a dozen Spoiler reviews of JL in the last week.

    Kev Smith, god bless him, is one of those go-to people for honest reviews. :)

    Marc Bernardin was surprisingly critical of JL and said he would not watch it again. Kevin Smith loved it, to be honest Kevin Smith loves literally everything he watches lol

    Smith is a fanboy, just like you and I. ;-) And he can get tears in his eyes from seeing something done by Batman, even in a comic book. But man, so can I. My girlfriend sometimes looks at me funny when I'm crying at the end of The Flashpoint Paradox and unsuccessfully trying to hide it from her. ;-)

    That said, Smith can be critical too. His first review of The Dark Knight Rises wasn't at all positive, and neither were his initial responses to MOS or BvS. Like me, he has serious issues with Batman Returns from start to finish. And one of his earlier reviews of The Dark Knight Returns Pt. 1 was, surprisingly enough, not a pure love song either (though his impressions changed quickly.) But Kevin has a soft heart for these things and in the end, he will get excited over the smallest details, pretty much like myself.

    Bernardin, in my opinion, is the better story analyst of the two. He always figures out contradictions, continuity errors and flaws in the writing, motivations of characters... In that sense, he's almost as good a detective as Batman. There are times when I disagree with him, but usually, I have to admit that he has a solid point to make, even if that doesn't necessarily take away all the fun for me.

    As a duo, they can be powerful reviewers who speak from the heart and mind of true fans (unlike Siskel and Ebert way back when), but with one praising all the exciting stuff like a supergeek and the other one maintaining a critical line of thinking which is focused on not overlooking some important flaws.

    TDKR is very flawed though I watch it the most, BB is my favourite. Regarding TDKR and many other films how I feel when I watch them can in my mind forgive a lot.

    Snyder is a visual story teller and as a collector of art/antiques/memorabilia etc I connect with visuals often more than dialog.

    Snyder is second to none with expressing so much story in a single frame.

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105

    This is why I respect Snyder as a film maker.
    ---
    I only realised yesterday Stallone is voicing King shark.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489

    This is why I respect Snyder as a film maker.
    ---

    That is brilliant.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105

    This is why I respect Snyder as a film maker.
    ---

    That is brilliant.


    Some other examples here, I like the death scene mirroring Excalibur.
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 1,394
    Superman coming back just in time to stop Cyborg getting killed by Steppenwolf and saying '' Not Impressed '' was just amazing.I mean Captain America picking up Thors hammer amazing! Would have gotten a huge cheer from audiences had Whedon not screwed with it.

    And i never thought id write this,but what made it better was the proper Man Of Steel theme being played at that moment rather than the inappropriate John Williams score that Whedon used ( Love the Williams theme,but its tailored to Christopher Reeves Superman,not Henry Cavills ).

    #Restorethesnyderverse
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2021 Posts: 23,449

    This is why I respect Snyder as a film maker.
    ---
    I only realised yesterday Stallone is voicing King shark.

    Fantastic!

    The future missus Dimi watched JL TSC with me this afternoon for a second time. She must really love me because she doesn't necessarily register as a hardcore DC fan, so four hours is quite the commitment. And yet, she likes this one better than MOS and BvS, despite me having to clarify lots of things during the film. :-D

    One more thing: as we were talking about the Snyder films, I explained to her why I love one of the first scenes in BvS so much. When we see people running away from a cloud of dust (from a collapsing building), we also see Bruce Wayne running right into it. See, and that's what I absolutely adore about Batman! You can call him crazy, but he takes all those risks just to save one or two people. Affleck shows such stamina and determination in that moment. And yes, I get emotional when I see things like that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I just don’t get why the Snyder verse is still kind of limping along I mean Aquaman 2 the Suicide Squad even Shazam feels like it’s part of that universe but we are also getting the Batman but Aflleck is coming back in the flash and rumored hbo max series like I am beyond confused

    I would say that despite the flaws of the newly christened Snyder-verse, there are a great many things that it did get right that are worth sticking with, even before the recent release of Justice League. That likely is a big part of it.

    Basically continuing the things that did work when Snyder was in charge and discarding the rest, and just focusing on making stand-alone stories rather than interconnected ones like Marvel. That especially works better so to give each filmmaker the freedom to tell their stories without having to check with others on how it’ll connect.

    For example, how did Harley Quinn end up where she’s at in THE SUICIDE SQUAD in regards to how BIRDS OF PREY ended? We’ll probably not get an answer, because that’s not important.

    I do think if Affleck really wanted it, he would have gotten his solo Batman film but aside from brief additional shootings of JL and playing a brief supporting role in THE FLASH, it seems he’s more willing to tie up loose ends rather than keep the role. He’s pushing 50 and has recovered from alcoholism after a bad marriage, no need to put more pressure on him.
  • Posts: 187
    I find these comments from WB about not wanting to continue the SnyderVerse silly. Clearly there is enough demand for it if you greenlit the director's cut. And on top of that, when you preach about establishing a film multiverse, there is no logical reason not to then include Snyder's universe in said multiverse. With multiple forms of heroes to then pick from, like these two versions of Batman being a thing at the same time, it doesn't encroach on your other live action plans. Plus Snyder's universe can live on a specific platform, like HBOMax, if you don't find it viable for theatrical releases.

    I hope they continue it. The dark and edgy style that comes with his films are a nice contrast to the lighter DC and Marvel stuff.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Let’s be brutally honest. If Snyder’s films were profitable enough, WB would always go with profit EVERY TIME. But they simply weren’t enough. The Snyder Cut was a unique case where they had an unfinished film sitting in the can and with a large social media trend demanding to see it. All they had to do was throw in a little money just to finish it. It’s an extremely different beast from actually creating a whole new film from start to finish the requires even more time and money.

    There’s a reason Snyder released pictures of his white boards laying out his original plan for the DCEU: He knows it’s not happening. You don’t spoil your entire storyline on the internet if you think you actually have a chance making it. And why would WB want to invest in more movies that are already spoiled online?

    Given that Affleck is moving on with his career, Cavill is being replaced, and Fisher burned bridges, that boat has sailed on.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    I suspect that they have higher hopes for Suicide Squad too and their eyes are on that now: seems likely that may be successful critically and have wider appeal.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 187

    I mean... I kind of don't blame them for acting out. Review bombing a movie is obviously a horrible way to go about it but lets be honest here; WB themselves ruined Justice League (2017) and Suicide Squad with their incessant meddling. There wouldn't even be these cries for director's cuts had the director's been able to put their vision together in the first place. They created this sh*tstorm themselves.

    Tim Burton claimed making the Batman's was one of the worst experiences of his life because of WB. They then ran Batman into the ground by camping it up for toy companies instead of caring about plot, characters and tone.

    If the movie stinks, they ignore it. If the movie makes money but critics devour it, they bury it. If it's successful, they will either micromanage it to oblivion or replot to copy Marvel.

    They need to do their own thing and stop being reactionary. The fans are vocal and are willing to throw money at them. I say do what you have planned but carve a space to deliver what they want as well. If it goes small scale like mini or event series for streaming, so be it. It's still something.

    And as far as Snyder's future plans go, he has already stated he would go in a different direction with sequels. That is probably why he spoke to the old plans.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2021 Posts: 8,000
    Given how hated BvS was by critics and fans, I don’t blame WB for being reactionary towards SUICIDE SQUAD and JUSTICE LEAGUE. David Ayer and Zack Snyder were not good fits for the adaptations they were assigned to and were rightfully phased out. WB had to be out of their goddamn minds looking at Leto’s LA gangster Joker with all the tattoos and say “fans will love this!” Then again they approved Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor too, bafflingly.

    That said, WB was also stupid to have JL fast tracked for production literally a month after BvS was released, because there was no time to process what happened and everything was locked in.

    But that’s all in the past now. WB now has a more promising future (aside from JJ Abrams)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    km16 wrote: »
    They need to do their own thing and stop being reactionary. The fans are vocal and are willing to throw money at them. I say do what you have planned but carve a space to deliver what they want as well. If it goes small scale like mini or event series for streaming, so be it. It's still something.

    If they shouldn’t be reactionary then they shouldn’t pander to these weird fans.

    I’m glad folks enjoyed the new JL but to be honest even making it sets a bit of a weird precedent. Now these people think they’re part of the process.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    If their numbers were enough to make BvS over a billion dollars at the box office, WB would have likely left Snyder’s JL alone. His fans may be super passionate and a tad obsessive, but they’re not enough to make these extremely expensive properties the kind of profit WB aimed for.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Hmmmm, if only DC didn't pay attention to Marvel.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Well they’d barely be making films at all if they hadn’t paid attention to Marvel! :)
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2021 Posts: 4,247
    mtm wrote: »
    Well they’d barely be making films at all if they hadn’t paid attention to Marvel! :)

    Lol. Yeah, I know what you mean. But they felt threatened and rushed everything and sort of forget they also have unique characters and a very opulent universe as well.
  • Posts: 12,506
    The Suicide Squad Red Band Trailer

    Anyone else notice a certain actor from QoS?
    General Luiz Medrano

    Oddly i am looking forward to seeing this? Possibly because it made me laugh a lot! :))
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I just don’t get why the Snyder verse is still kind of limping along I mean Aquaman 2 the Suicide Squad even Shazam feels like it’s part of that universe but we are also getting the Batman but Aflleck is coming back in the flash and rumored hbo max series like I am beyond confused

    I would say that despite the flaws of the newly christened Snyder-verse, there are a great many things that it did get right that are worth sticking with, even before the recent release of Justice League. That likely is a big part of it.

    Basically continuing the things that did work when Snyder was in charge and discarding the rest, and just focusing on making stand-alone stories rather than interconnected ones like Marvel.

    Pretty much.

    I've mainly lost any serious interest in the MCU now because of how reliant a lot of the stories are on plot threads from ten years ago in prior films. It worked up to a point, I think. But I prefer standalone storytelling, if given the choice.

    I would like future DC films to follow that approach. Nods and cameos are cool though, obviously.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    This is why I respect Snyder as a film maker.
    ---
    I only realised yesterday Stallone is voicing King shark.

    Fantastic!

    The future missus Dimi watched JL TSC with me this afternoon for a second time. She must really love me because she doesn't necessarily register as a hardcore DC fan, so four hours is quite the commitment. And yet, she likes this one better than MOS and BvS, despite me having to clarify lots of things during the film. :-D

    One more thing: as we were talking about the Snyder films, I explained to her why I love one of the first scenes in BvS so much. When we see people running away from a cloud of dust (from a collapsing building), we also see Bruce Wayne running right into it. See, and that's what I absolutely adore about Batman! You can call him crazy, but he takes all those risks just to save one or two people. Affleck shows such stamina and determination in that moment. And yes, I get emotional when I see things like that.

    I have been working all week and still managed to watch JL several time (sometimes playing in the background), I think it says a lot for the pacing of the film.

    Snyder's JL may have done better at the cinema than WB initially thought it would have because of the pacing, despite a lengthy run time which allegedly WB were not happy with.

    I am sure many will disagree though Batfleck is my favourite Bruce/Batman for many reasons. Bruce running towards the danger in BvS is great scene.

    I love moments when a comic book character despite not being suited up the alter ego comes to the forefront or the facade drops.

    Chris Reeve in Superman The Movie when he removes his glasses as Clark Kent whilst in Lois apartment, his posture completely changes, he almost tells Lois the truth, is a great example.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    Chris Reeve in Superman The Movie when he removes his glasses as Clark Kent whilst in Lois apartment, his posture completely changes, he almost tells Lois the truth, is a great example.

    About Reeve... When Cavill does the
    run in the alley while ripping open his shirt to reveal the supes suit
    thing, a moment burned on my retina from the Reeve films, I can't help making a fist and yelling "YEAH!".
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Snyder's JL may have done better at the cinema than WB initially thought it would have because of the pacing, despite a lengthy run time which allegedly WB were not happy with.

    I can agree to that to a point. It's definitely paced better than its runtime would suggest, but I'd still excise a half an hour or so. Four hours is too long for theater viewing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2021 Posts: 8,000
    Four hours would have NEVER happened in a theatrical release. Snyder only got his four hours because HBO Max was a perfectly suitable platform where audiences have total control of how and when they want to watch it.

    For a theatrical release, Snyder would have had to cut it down to three hours or less, IDEALLY with the footage he had already shot. However, even if he hadn’t left the project in 2017, he still would have had to deal with all the mandates that Whedon faced such as the two hour limit, reshooting with a mustached Cavill and bloated Affleck, etc.

    Ironically, leaving the project in 2017 was probably the best thing to ever happen to the film because it was part of what got the ball rolling with #ReleaseTheSnyderCut.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    As a DC fan, I must admit that I have mixed feelings concerning WB. There's the good:
    • They continue to be in support of good animated output (although I feel like the quality of said output is in decline);
    • They gave Nolan a second Dark Knight film despite BB "underperforming";
    • They allowed a Donner Cut of S2 and a Snyder Cut of JL;
    • They didn't shy away from a ballsy project like Joker (2019);
    • ...

    But there are some pretty bad moves in their track record also:
    • Allowing the Salkinds to throw Donner out after the amazing achievement of Superman: The Movie;
    • Taking their Batman '89 success in strange and then even stranger and campier places with its sequels, giving weird mandates and losing touch with the comic book universe altogether;
    • Discontinuing the planned "Superman Returns" series (which, in a personal note, I might add is a film I truly like, thought very well cast and beautifully shot, and continue to appreciate as a really good Singer film);
    • Running Ayer's SS into the ground (though I doubt there was ever a "great" SS in the first place);
    • Going bonkers with JL in 2017;
    • Never properly finishing Beware The Batman (another very personal thing, this);
    • ...

    I'm not saying others would have done better. And I am quite satisfied with most of the films in the DC Universe. It's just that when WB interferes and goes 'stupid', it goes 'stupid' in a big bad way. The Donner thing is Warner's biggest sin, I think. I know they only distributed the Superman movies, but they could and should have put way more pressure on the Salkinds to keep Donner onboard.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 23,105
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Chris Reeve in Superman The Movie when he removes his glasses as Clark Kent whilst in Lois apartment, his posture completely changes, he almost tells Lois the truth, is a great example.

    About Reeve... When Cavill does the
    run in the alley while ripping open his shirt to reveal the supes suit
    thing, a moment burned on my retina from the Reeve films, I can't help making a fist and yelling "YEAH!".

    There are a few call backs to Donner when Clark is on the Kent farm in JL, one being his embrace with his mother very similar to Superman the Movie.
    Snyder's JL may have done better at the cinema than WB initially thought it would have because of the pacing, despite a lengthy run time which allegedly WB were not happy with.

    I can agree to that to a point. It's definitely paced better than its runtime would suggest, but I'd still excise a half an hour or so. Four hours is too long for theater viewing.

    Yeah agree, I should have stated that it still would have been an cut down version theatrically despite the good pacing.
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