Coronavirus Discussion

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2020 Posts: 23,449
    Not just education. A really big problem is our inability to act in a disciplined manner for "the greater good" as they would say in Hot Fuzz. We're so spoiled by our indulgences, freedoms and rights, we cannot sacrifice even a small percentage for--what--maybe a year-and-a-half in our entire life. Nobody's taking away our internet connection, our books, movies and music, the full comfort of our homes, our freedom to go out for a walk, to order stuff and so on. The fact that people still ALSO "need" to travel abroad for fun, crowd pubs, organize parties, fulfil their role as tourists, ... all of this amidst a pandemic that's growing worse by the day on a global scale, knowing full well that travellers brought the virus into their countries in the first place, now that's completely beyond me. That has little to do with education; it has everything to do with us thinking we're indestructible gods who will be told by no-one what we can and cannot do. Say what you want about the Asians--they comply, they act in a disciplined and controlled manner when their governments issue clear warnings. We, on the other hand, are weak byproducts of a lifestyle illusion that grants us access to primal pleasures like getting drunk, dancing like a bunch of monkeys and throwing money around in countries where people are generally poor, pretending we're oh-so affluent while at home we struggle to pay the bills. This repulsive consumer behaviour isn't even blocked by the pandemic; rather, a few elements of it are temporarily put on hold. And we can't even commit to that. We riot, we break the rules. People die. Why should I care, mate? I have the right to party. I'll just -- "hick!" -- dance -- "hick!" -- corona away.

    I.

    Me.

    Me and no-one else.

    Me and my simple pleasures.

    Me and my "rights".

    This life has been so good to many of us, who never had to experience real poverty, hunger, military conflicts, boredom. And yet, we can't even stay home and read a book for a while. Some won't even wear masks because "it's unpleasant and it makes me look stupid". As a consequence, the elder, the very people who built this world for us, die in great numbers.

    What does this say about us?
  • It's says we're a bunch of undisciplined, self-centered knuckleheads. So where's the news item here? ;)
  • Posts: 5,774
    Just saw a documentary about a pandemic that has been largely forgotten : the 1969/1970 "Hong Kong Flu" which, in France, killed some 35 000 people. At the time, it hardly made a ripple in the different medias, but it's true that there were a lot of things happening in those years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

    The documentary made parallels between the situation then (no governmental response, even when hospitals were overwhelmed) and today (governmental response, but slow to come), and and explained the difference by a few crisises that had happened since then (Aids, and the 2003 heatwave).

    BTW, that strain of flu killed some 1 to 4 million people worldwide. It's thanks to means of prevention like masks, hygiene, and social distanciation that we're not there yet. Let's hope a vaccine or a cure can be found before we get to that point.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2020 Posts: 12,459

    Chart begins at 100 cases. Compares U.S. with Europe. It goes where you think it will go ... still startling and so sad to see.

    If you scroll down it shows other comparisons, other charts.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,598
    @CommanderRoss Your point is well taken, but I have a slightly different take.

    IMO, the real issue isn’t a lack of education per-say, but that power is currently being held by a political ideology that generally holds science, “experts” and even the very intuition of education in contempt. To them, scientists, doctors, etc.… are part of some “deep state” that is preventing them from completely putting into place their desired political and economic programs.

    When you can’t win a factual augment, you start to demonize those delivering the message. In short, what this ideology questions are not the expertise brought to the table by given individuals, but the very need for that expertise. And the natural degree of uncertainty or lack of absolutes that comes with that expertise – for science is always evolving in the face of new data – is used to discredit the experts of the “deep state.”

    I think that I’ve posted this before, but it’s so germane to the current political environment (especially here in the US) that I’ll do so again:

    Isaac Asimov
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,598
    FYI,

    Due to the new surge in COVID-19 cases, California (US) has reinstated some business closures.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/newsom-orders-statewide-closure-indoor-193346481.html

    For what it’s worth, here in New York City provisions to allow for indoor dining were not included in our phase 3 re-opening, due, in part, to the surges of cases being experienced in other parts of the country. New York City’s own caseload continues to be low – at the moment. I’m not clear on the direct impact on movie theaters, but one can infer, that if they can open at all, it will be at only a small capacity.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss Your point is well taken, but I have a slightly different take.

    IMO, the real issue isn’t a lack of education per-say, but that power is currently being held by a political ideology that generally holds science, “experts” and even the very intuition of education in contempt. To them, scientists, doctors, etc.… are part of some “deep state” that is preventing them from completely putting into place their desired political and economic programs.

    When you can’t win a factual augment, you start to demonize those delivering the message. In short, what this ideology questions are not the expertise brought to the table by given individuals, but the very need for that expertise. And the natural degree of uncertainty or lack of absolutes that comes with that expertise – for science is always evolving in the face of new data – is used to discredit the experts of the “deep state.”

    I think that I’ve posted this before, but it’s so germane to the current political environment (especially here in the US) that I’ll do so again:

    Isaac Asimov
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

    Excellent post, @Dwayne! Dr A's quote is also very well chosen.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @CommanderRoss Your point is well taken, but I have a slightly different take.

    IMO, the real issue isn’t a lack of education per-say, but that power is currently being held by a political ideology that generally holds science, “experts” and even the very intuition of education in contempt. To them, scientists, doctors, etc.… are part of some “deep state” that is preventing them from completely putting into place their desired political and economic programs.

    When you can’t win a factual augment, you start to demonize those delivering the message. In short, what this ideology questions are not the expertise brought to the table by given individuals, but the very need for that expertise. And the natural degree of uncertainty or lack of absolutes that comes with that expertise – for science is always evolving in the face of new data – is used to discredit the experts of the “deep state.”

    I think that I’ve posted this before, but it’s so germane to the current political environment (especially here in the US) that I’ll do so again:

    Isaac Asimov
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

    Excellent post, @Dwayne! Dr A's quote is also very well chosen.
    Well, first of all I agree. But to my mind, they wouldn't be anti-intellect /anti science if they'd had a proper education in the first place.
    I'm definitely not blaming teachers, rather the system itself. As one who's married to somebody who grew up partly in the ussr, I can say that whatever horrible flaws communism had there, it's education system was very effective to the point that even the stupidest people had more respect for science than many 'educated' people in our society.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2020 Posts: 15,686
    Yesterday (July 13th), the US state of Florida has reported a new record high of 132 additional deaths, as well as more than 9,100 new confirmed cases.

    Florida reached 100,000 confirmed cases on June 22nd (22 days ago). Florida now has a total of over 287,000 confirmed cases.

    The positive test rate - which indicates how much the virus is spreading, taking into account testing increases - is nearing 20%, the highest since early March when the pandemic hit the US.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,449
    We here in Belgium are on the rise again. Well, I guess it was to be expected. Pubs are exploding with customers not wearing any masks or respecting even the smallest distance. There are parties everywhere. And then there are the bloody tourists, idiots who can't sit this pandemic out and wait for the skies to clear before they travel abroad again. Morons.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,686
    @DarthDimi Here in France, President Macron said he plans on making facial masks mandatory in every public indoor places. A very good idea, but (sadly) one that should have been decided months ago. Certain shops are so small, it's strange that they don't require masks yet equally enclosed spaces like hairdressers do require them.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Here in Massachusetts most everyone seems to be wearing masks... then yesterday two idiots come in with them on their chins. Was gonna point it out, but that probably would have had them talking a lot & spreading their exhale moisture even more, so I just quietly went to the back area, where my manager asked what I was doing. "My social distancing increases from six to sixty feet when masks are not worn correctly." "Oh. Got it."
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    In Norway, as of now, there are allegedly four people hospitalized with the virus.
  • edited July 2020 Posts: 17,241
    In Norway, as of now, there are allegedly four people hospitalized with the virus.

    One reported case in my municipality during the last few months, so it's going fine here. Holiday season now though, so you never know how the situation will continue.
  • Posts: 5,774
    And still, there are people who don't want to wear masks (saying, as a commentator did on TV today, that if they don't wear masks, but everybody else does, there's no problem) and hyaving suspicions about vaccines and their origins (the same moron). Hopeless. Simply hopeless.

    Today, the CoronaVirus did another victim : the traditional Bastille Day Parade. Instead of a big parade, with tanks and 4 000 men and women going down the Champs Élysées, we got only 2 000 soldiers going around the Place de la Concorde, and very few military vehicles. As for the fireworks, I haven't seen any in the place where I live. You can add pyrotechnicians (who do the majority of their revenues in this period) to the list of professions being impacted by CoViD-19.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2020 Posts: 23,449
    @DaltonCraig007
    Thank the Maker! If France does something like that, Belgium is almost sure to follow. That would be so good.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have hardly ever seen anyone wearing masks here.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2020 Posts: 15,686
    First country to reach 50,000 daily cases: Brazil, on June 19th (55,209).
    Days above 50,000 since: 0 (out of 25 days).

    The USA reached 50,000 daily cases on July 1st.
    Days above 50,000 since: 11 (out of 13 days).

    The USA first reached 60,000 daily cases on July 8th.
    Days above 60,000 since: 5 (out of 6 days).
    Lowest day since: July 12th (58,349).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,686
    The Trump administration has stripped the CDC from accessing coronavirus hospital data.

    All daily cases and deaths data will now be sent directly to the White House.

    For users like @RogerJonMoorePertwee who kept complaining about daily updates of 'pessimistic' (but real) data coming from the USA, you can now rejoice. It will no longer be possible to report on the US situation as the numbers will now be tempered with and falsified directly by the White House.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,105
    Face masks to be compulsory in shops in England; UK death toll rises by 138 – as it happened
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jul/14/uk-coronavirus-live-news-updates-boris-johnson-face-masks
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2020 Posts: 15,686
    As daily cases in Georgia reaches record-high for three consecutive days, the state's Governor removes all face masks mandates, and has banned local cities & counties from making face masks mandatory.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-governor-extends-coronavirus-restrictions/75SLQWLJ6FBULIGVEDMNSY5M64/

    ----

    The USA has beaten their daily cases numbers yet again, with over 68,000 new cases recorded on July 15th. The past week's average has now reached 60,000 new cases per day.

    ---

    The total death-toll in the USA has reached 140,000.

    ----

    Available ICU beds in Florida hospitals goes below 1,000 as state reaches 300,000 total cases.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-hospitals-face-icu-bed-shortage-state-passes-300-000-n1233899

    ——

    Yesterday, for the first time since June 9th, the USA recorded over 1,000 daily deaths.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,948
    We can only watch in amazement as the 'leader of the (so called) free world' seems completely at a loss at what to do with an infectious desease.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2020 Posts: 17,687
    The Trump administration has stripped the CDC from accessing coronavirus hospital data.

    All daily cases and deaths data will now be sent directly to the White House.

    For users like @RogerJonMoorePertwee who kept complaining about daily updates of 'pessimistic' (but real) data coming from the USA, you can now rejoice. It will no longer be possible to report on the US situation as the numbers will now be tempered with and falsified directly by the White House.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html

    And somehow he still has time to do Goya Bean commercials from the White House...
    He's a nut. He's gonna get hundreds of thousands more killed.
    He's trying fo a Mill by Christmas I guess.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DaltonCraig007
    Thank the Maker! If France does something like that, Belgium is almost sure to follow. That would be so good.

    In Italy has always been mandatory to wear a mask in every indoor public space/shop since day one. In Lombardy, the hardest hit region, only since yesterday is not mandatory anymore to wear a mask outside home.
  • As daily cases in Georgia reaches record-high for three consecutive days, the state's Governor removes all face masks mandates, and has banned local cities & counties from making face masks mandatory.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-governor-extends-coronavirus-restrictions/75SLQWLJ6FBULIGVEDMNSY5M64/

    ----

    The USA has beaten their daily cases numbers yet again, with over 68,000 new cases recorded on July 15th. The past week's average has now reached 60,000 new cases per day.

    ---

    The total death-toll in the USA has reached 140,000.

    ----

    Available ICU beds in Florida hospitals goes below 1,000 as state reaches 300,000 total cases.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-hospitals-face-icu-bed-shortage-state-passes-300-000-n1233899

    ——

    Yesterday, for the first time since June 9th, the USA recorded over 1,000 daily deaths.

    Now that hospitals have been instructed NOT to send their info to CDC, I think we can expect the (reported) death rate to decline dramatically. So much winning!
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,598
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/us-coronavirus-data-has-already-disappeared-after-trump-administration-shifted-control-from-cdc-to-hhs.html

    Little by little, my country has become the a “banana republic.” What use to happen “over-there” is now happening right here at home. While some have explained away the administration’s response to COVID-19 as an example of its incompetence, to me it looks more and more like a deliberate effort.

    Overt Political commentary to Follow ☹:
    Several days ago, some of you wondered why Trump would give “dictators” equal status when referring to world leaders. Well the answer is fairly clear. Trump actually admires these dictators (North Korea, Russia, and China (despite his rhetoric about how badly they handled the initial COVID-19 outbreak). In short, he sees himself as holding a similar function in the U.S. The normal checks and balances built into our system of government are an anathema to him. IMO, this what happens when you elect leaders who proclaim loyalty to the “flag” – but have very little understanding about the very principals that the flag represents.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2020 Posts: 17,687
    Dwayne wrote: »
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/us-coronavirus-data-has-already-disappeared-after-trump-administration-shifted-control-from-cdc-to-hhs.html

    Little by little, my country has become the a “banana republic.” What use to happen “over-there” is now happening right here at home. While some have explained away the administration’s response to COVID-19 as an example of its incompetence, to me it looks more and more like a deliberate effort.
    They are trying to make their own version of lemonade from lemons.
    And they don't get that by November another hundred thousand or more here in the U.S. will be dead. Only THE most racist creeps will remain loyal to him once everyone knows someone who's died from this imcompetance...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2020 Posts: 15,686
    The USA has obliterated their biggest single-day case rise, with 77,217 new cases recorded on July 16th.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    Our governor in NY has obliterated so many businesses its unbelievable.

    With so many cases surging in the last month and half, one would assume the death rate would skyrocket, but it hasn't.
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