The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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Comments

  • Posts: 7,653
    I do not see any problem with the girl Tanya Roberts or the villain, he is actually quite impressive.

    Disagree with the thesis and am not quite sure if this one is not a bit in the section: "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 22,184
    SaintMark wrote:
    "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D

    I never joke about my work. ;-)

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,208
    Re: Bond films can be educational for children.

    Agree. For me the Bond series always be a litle bit kind of teacher too. Whyle i not realy like it there not be Dutch subtitle with the bonus material with the first 19 SE's the English subtitle i hope to inprove my English.

    There is also a sad side, the Bond movies be also full of inspyration but at scool it be dificult to get inspyred/give singnals whant to be - get the change to be creative. Language never be/not be my strongest thing, always be better with numbers. History always be somewhere in the middle. Moost things i get from tv if it is not Bond.
  • Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    "don't know anything else so I'll be proposing something stupid". :D

    I never joke about my work. ;-)

    There was I thinking of you as a teacher, like my missus and she generally does not joke about her work either.

    O:-)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited May 2012 Posts: 12,446
    Re: AVTAK.
    Heck yes. Although I like Walken, but Tanya Roberts should have been left out.
  • Posts: 12,436
    I agree it could have helped. But i do like AVTAK! What would have helped more is the technology we have now. So Moore's face could be imposed on to the stunt double!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,343
    Without a doubt. This is why Octopussy works and A View To A Kill doesn't as far as believability goes.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited May 2012 Posts: 3,204
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 105</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had they gone with an older girl and ditto villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible.</b></font>

    Somewhat perhaps. But AVTAK's script had so many weaknesses, an older girl or a younger Bond wouldn't be enough the fix the film.
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Without a doubt. This is why Octopussy works and A View To A Kill doesn't as far as believability goes.

    Agreed. OP is the vastly superior film and the one Moore should have made his finale in the role.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    That thesis would have made AVTAK even more geriatric. AVTAK was already doomed with an aged Moore, Grace Jones, the Stacy character, shoddy cinematography and a plot similiar to Goldfinger. Christopher Walken was fine as the main villian, and it really wouldn't have made a difference who the lead girl was as Stacy was a poorly written characters.
  • Posts: 228
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 105</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had they gone with an older girl and ditto villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible.</b></font>


    In my opinion the thesis should read, " Had they gone with a younger Bond, Older Girl and Villain, AVTAK could have been somewhat more credible. lol

    joking aside yes the villain and girl should have been older, it would have helped bring a bit more seriousness to the film. But in my opinion the whole movie was a major disaster, especially the end. Roger looked extremely old in AVTAK and his performance couldn't have been humorous and stiff.
  • Posts: 4,754
    No, AVTAK is legendary as is. Tanya Roberts may not be able to act very well, but wow, the looks are there! It may seem weird having a 58-year old Roger with a 20-something Tanya, but I have no complaints about it. As for Christopher Walken, he was the perfect Max Zorin. Anybody else wouldn't have worked as well as he did.
  • Walken was awesome as Zorin, one of my favorite villains in the series. The problem here was Moore was too old to have Roberts play opposite. The best scenario would have been for Dalton making his debut here.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    Seriously guys, have you watched the ending of AVTAK, Roger Moore , an old man swinging off of a firetruck through the streets of San Francisco. Come on, its one of the most absurd scenes of the entire franchises. When I watch some of Moore's outings I often wonder if the producers and directors were on LSD or smoking some strong herb while filming.

    I agree with you Sir Henry, Dalton definitely should have made his debut here, the film was much more suited for him, especially the stunts.
  • Posts: 4,754
    Seriously guys, have you watched the ending of AVTAK, Roger Moore , an old man swinging off of a firetruck through the streets of San Francisco. Come on, its one of the most absurd scenes of the entire franchises. When I watch some of Moore's outings I often wonder if the producers and directors were on LSD or smoking some strong herb while filming.

    I agree with you Sir Henry, Dalton definitely should have made his debut here, the film was much more suited for him, especially the stunts.

    Yes you're right, the fire truck scene is pretty lame, but I love AVTAK nonetheless. The following scene after the fire truck chase onto the end credits is one of the greatest Bond climaxes of all time.
  • Posts: 297
    Not a friend of AVTAK, don't think an older girl would have helped that one, no way. But why ever going with another villain? Walken is practically the best thing about AVTAK and a perfect Zorin. He's underused potential, sure. But without him the whole mess would be completely insufferable.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 22,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 106</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Showing Bond drunk in QOS was a bold but very Flemingesque move.</b></font>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,554
    there wasn't much difference between sober-Craig and drunk-Craig - still the same monotone line delivery and the pouting.

  • Posts: 297
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 106</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Showing Bond drunk in QOS was a bold but very Flemingesque move.</b></font>


    Agree about that being a thing Fleming's Bond indulges frequently and might have done in that manner in the books. From time to time there are references to bodn taking pills to be able to sleep, that too would fit into the picture. That said I'm not sure Bond was supposed to be that drunk. He's still quite present and I think that perfectly fit the bill for his supposed state of mind there. Damaged = yes. Beaten = no.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,261
    Agree.

    Bond drinks a lot in CR and QoS, and it fits the character that Fleming created.
  • Posts: 12,726
    Sean Connery Roger Moore Timothy Dalton tought me how to be a man. ;)

    fixed :)

    No, NOW it's fixed :)
  • Posts: 1,407
    Agreed. And I'm glad they didn't show him THAT drunk because that would be pushing it. But the somber scene with Mathis on the plane remains one of my favorites in the film to this day
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 22,184
    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.
  • Posts: 12,436
    I agree. Bold and clever move to see him at a low thoughtful point, well under the influence of alcohol. A memorable scene played out with Mathis.
  • Posts: 1,856
    Agreed, But I also agree with @DaltonCraig that it could of been pulled of better.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Moderator
    Posts: 13,185
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,343
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.

    I liked that too. The scene is me is very Thunderball, the novel, so I'm glad at last it was included somewhere in the series.

    Maybe we'll see it again, this time effecting his work? One can only hope.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Was he drunk? Or did he just drink a lot?
  • Posts: 12,726
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??

    That was kind of my reaction. Then again I haven't seen it in a year or two.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 278
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I also think Arnold's Vesper cue playing in the back was a great creative choice.

    Indeed...Talent does exist, Composer and Music editor united!! :-B
  • Posts: 1,497
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??
    He was drunk in QOS? :-??

    That was kind of my reaction. Then again I haven't seen it in a year or two.


    Ditto that! When was he drunk? I thought maybe the cameraman was drunk during the opening car chase sequence, or perhaps the editors in post production.
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