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Lashana Lynch as 007 and the Women of 'No Time to Die' (SPOILERS!)

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Comments

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,634
    Univex wrote: »
    You know what? I don't mind every single change or novelty they come up with, as long as THEY are not ashamed of their product. That's the most important thing for me. Just make a Bond film and proud it's a Bond film. Having a woman as a 007 replacement down at Mi6 is an opportunity for a lot of interesting stuff. But do it proudly. Be proud of what James Bond is.

    I've just seen the new Cruise Top Gun trailer, and I realised something, the man is proud of what that film was and what this new film can be. He's not trying to make it another thing entirely. And the nostalgia is there as well, in a good way. It's not cringeworthy. It's full blown. In your face. Pride.

    So, black women as 007 or not, I just want them to make a film they're not ashamed of, something they are deeply proud of, a bonafide James Bond film.

    I'm so ready for a trailer :) And I'm still very positive.

    Although I am not a TC fan, @Univex , still wise words and I understand the sentiment. Once again, these are thoughts from a passionate Bond fan... not an angry divisive "fan", but a happy, optimistic fan ...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,634
    @Torgeirtrap -- good, fun drama is created by opposites colliding into each other. This writing technique is as old as Greek plays (another word is : irony); Oedipus unknowingly marries his Mother...

    Christ, that's drama!

    James Bond--previously known as James Bond 007 back at Mi6-- is now visiting his old haunt as a guest... His number has been assigned to his opposite in every way-- but she's a success... How does James Bond feel and react to this?????... That's where humour, tension and fun will come from...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,048
    MichelleJohnston wrote: »
    @dragonsky

    Your post touches on the actual challenge of this film to have an exciting and original narrative which isn't dragged back or bogged down by Spectre but does the opposite carries it in its wake.

    Craig and Waltz we know have reservations about Spectre and Daniel particularly wanted Lea back to make right that element from his POV.

    The writing that Cary did in the winter of 2018 will be crucial in this regard whereas the tidying up of the dialogue and situational drama by the other two will give the film its atmosphere.

    If i think of the elements of Spectre that could have been better the three additional writers on this film have shown themselves able to deal with such matters as creating critical tension, narrative momentum, curved ball dialogue and mystery so it could work.

    However there is a clear difference between Bond fans on the Craig era some like me enjoy the introspective darker analysis of character that echoes the final two Blofeld books and its coda Golden Gun others just want an entertaining yarn and believe director ..... fill in the blanks can do this. Personally I think Bond lite is already being done by others ( a riff on a riff). If they return to sub Moore values then I will probably turn aside but I am not going to get upset about it some really miss that kind of feel where it was a fun family entertainment movie.

    We know one improvement has been made Daniel is no longer doing an impersonation of Norman Wisdom in the wardrobe department !

    Great post, @MichelleJohnston
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited July 2019 Posts: 3,126
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,048
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.

    They should get Charlie Higson to write the screenplay, too.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.
    There was speculation that this is what Boyle was toying with.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited July 2019 Posts: 3,126
    jake24 wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.
    There was speculation that this is what Boyle was toying with.

    @jake24 it definitely fits the criteria of new I think that would have been amazing maybe they will keep the idea for Bond 26 or a plot like Blood stone and the G20 summit with all the world leaders.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,002
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.

    This is the plot of Patriot Games.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,048
    echo wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    I would like to see a plot sometime in the future where Bond has to save the royal family from dying against time and resistance from him saving them now that would be thrilling and calling it On or By Royal Command. Now that would be something new and exciting.

    This is the plot of Patriot Games.

    It is also the plot of By Royal Command.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Still, no one has answered my question.
    If there are only three 00 agents (as per Fleming) and the 007 passes to another agent after Bond quits, how come there is a 007 to begin with?
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,350
    peter wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap -- good, fun drama is created by opposites colliding into each other. This writing technique is as old as Greek plays (another word is : irony); Oedipus unknowingly marries his Mother...

    Christ, that's drama!

    James Bond--previously known as James Bond 007 back at Mi6-- is now visiting his old haunt as a guest... His number has been assigned to his opposite in every way-- but she's a success... How does James Bond feel and react to this?????... That's where humour, tension and fun will come from...

    This is all very true, and it will be interesting to see how this will play out on screen. I hope there will be some great, witty dialogue – and just as important, chemistry between the two. If they manage that, they might win over a lot of the doubters.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2019 Posts: 8,048
    Walecs wrote: »
    Still, no one has answered my question.
    If there are only three 00 agents (as per Fleming) and the 007 passes to another agent after Bond quits, how come there is a 007 to begin with?

    I can only take a stab at it as I don't believe there's a definitive answer. Fleming never dived into too much detail about the logistics of the number being assigned, but Horowitz filled in the blanks by having Bond pick his numbers himself. So if that's how it works across the board, then they all pick their own numbers.

    So, if you apply that same thinking to Fleming's novels, there could be a 007, 008 and 0011 without there having existed any intermittent numbers (though in all likelihood there was, they may have just been killed) - because the agents picked their numbers themselves.

    The film's are different obviously in that there are a lot more of them, as seen in Thunderball. Which always led me to believe that the film canon was always different and the designation was assigned randomly, something I always thought was hinted at when Craig's Bond in CR says "I thought M was a randomly assigned letter, I never knew it stood for--". I always felt there was a reason why Bond must have assumed such a thing and that it was likely based on his own designation being assigned randomly. Of course, that could be completely wrong and his ignorance on the meaning of "M" is limited to her alone.

    And evidently in the films, or at the Craig era, agents can pick their own numbers as hinted at in the timeline of the Fleming/Horowitz novels, hence how we ended up with Nomi as 007. It's possible she is a fan of Bond or wanted to continue his work, in the same way that Bond did in Horowitz' novel with the previous 007.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited July 2019 Posts: 19,339
    For God's sake people this is getting silly.

    1) You cant be embarrassed over something that isn't even made yet !!

    2) Daniel Craig will be the main man in this film as James Bond,he wouldn't have come back otherwise,Bond is very personal to him and means a lot,he wants to finish on a high.

    3) Nomi will be 007 in this film and this film only,and i'm 99% convinced in my mind that Bond will get it back before the end to complete Dan's tenure.

    4) EON are not going all 'feminine' with Bond - Dan's films have made a fortune,every one of them,they arnt going to change a winning formula which obviously appeals to the public,especially as this is the last of Dan's films - the revenue shows this.

    5) Giving another 00 agent the 007 number is no different to MI6 than giving someone 001-0020,Bond doesn't have a copyright to this number,and has retired,why should they retire the number too ? it's just a number,its the agent that makes the difference.

    I know there are a lot of young members on here that grew up with Brosnan and Craig as their Bond's,but seriously,get a grip and support the bloody film and EON,dont join the other arseholes out there - you are supposed to be a SERIOUS James Bond fan,if not then you shouldn't be on this forum.

    I despair sometimes I really do.

    Thank you - rant over.

    *lays down on the sofa with a cold,wet towel on my head*
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,677
    barryt007 wrote: »
    For God's sake people this is getting silly.

    1) You cant be embarrassed over something that isn't even made yet !!

    2) Daniel Craig will be the main man in this film as James Bond,he wouldn't have come back otherwise,Bond is very personal to him and means a lot,he wants to finish on a high.

    3) Nomi will be 007 in this film and this film only,and i'm 99% convinced in my mind that Bond will get it back before the end to complete Dan's tenure.

    4) EON are not going all 'feminine' with Bond - Dan's films have made a fortune,every one of them,they arnt going to change a winning formula which obviously appeals to the public,especially as this is the last of Dan's films - the revenue shows this.

    5) Giving another 00 agent the 007 number is no different to MI6 than giving someone 001-0020,Bond doesn't have a copyright to this number,and has retired,why should they retire the number too ? it's just a number,its the agent that makes the difference.

    I know there are a lot of young members on here that grew up with Brosnan and Craig as their Bond's,but seriously,get a grip and support the bloody film and EON,dont join the other arseholes out there - you are supposed to be a SERIOUS James Bond fan,if not then you shouldn't be on this forum.

    I despair sometimes I really do.

    Thank you - rant over.

    *lays down on the sofa with a cold,wet towel on my head*

    Good rant ;) Very good.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,634
    Univex wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    For God's sake people this is getting silly.

    1) You cant be embarrassed over something that isn't even made yet !!

    2) Daniel Craig will be the main man in this film as James Bond,he wouldn't have come back otherwise,Bond is very personal to him and means a lot,he wants to finish on a high.

    3) Nomi will be 007 in this film and this film only,and i'm 99% convinced in my mind that Bond will get it back before the end to complete Dan's tenure.

    4) EON are not going all 'feminine' with Bond - Dan's films have made a fortune,every one of them,they arnt going to change a winning formula which obviously appeals to the public,especially as this is the last of Dan's films - the revenue shows this.

    5) Giving another 00 agent the 007 number is no different to MI6 than giving someone 001-0020,Bond doesn't have a copyright to this number,and has retired,why should they retire the number too ? it's just a number,its the agent that makes the difference.

    I know there are a lot of young members on here that grew up with Brosnan and Craig as their Bond's,but seriously,get a grip and support the bloody film and EON,dont join the other arseholes out there - you are supposed to be a SERIOUS James Bond fan,if not then you shouldn't be on this forum.

    I despair sometimes I really do.

    Thank you - rant over.

    *lays down on the sofa with a cold,wet towel on my head*

    Good rant ;) Very good.

    Yes, @barryt007 -- very good rant. Lots of truth!
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited July 2019 Posts: 1,661
    Walecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service wrote:
    Still, no one has answered my question.
    If there are only three 00 agents (as per Fleming) and the 007 passes to another agent after Bond quits, how come there is a 007 to begin with?

    I'll do my best to answer it.

    Eon's Thunderball established there were more than three 00 agents in the division. We saw that when Bond went to the war room and was briefed about the mission. (CraigMooreOHMSS mentioned this above). Fleming's three 00 rule is not applicable.

    Personally speaking I can't see how you can have two 007s in active service at the same time. Seems silly. It's possible Nomi is 007 and Bond returns to the service but isn't given a 00 prefix. He's just James Bond on temporary service. That might work. I dunno. Who knows! It's all make-believe, you can do what like! 8-} ;))
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Still, no one has answered my question.
    If there are only three 00 agents (as per Fleming) and the 007 passes to another agent after Bond quits, how come there is a 007 to begin with?

    I can only take a stab at it as I don't believe there's a definitive answer. Fleming never dived into too much detail about the logistics of the number being assigned, but Horowitz filled in the blanks by having Bond pick his numbers himself. So if that's how it works across the board, then they all pick their own numbers.

    So, if you apply that same thinking to Fleming's novels, there could be a 007, 008 and 0011 without there having existed any intermittent numbers (though in all likelihood there was, they may have just been killed) - because the agents picked their numbers themselves.

    The film's are different obviously in that there are a lot more of them, as seen in Thunderball. Which always led me to believe that the film canon was always different and the designation was assigned randomly, something I always thought was hinted at when Craig's Bond in CR says "I thought M was a randomly assigned letter, I never knew it stood for--". I always felt there was a reason why Bond must have assumed such a thing and that it was likely based on his own designation being assigned randomly. Of course, that could be completely wrong and his ignorance on the meaning of "M" is limited to her alone.

    And evidently, agents can pick their own numbers as hinted at in the timeline of the Fleming/Horowitz novels, hence how we ended up with Nomi as 007. It's possible she is a fan of Bond.
    This perfectly makes sense, thank you
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Walecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service wrote:
    Still, no one has answered my question.
    If there are only three 00 agents (as per Fleming) and the 007 passes to another agent after Bond quits, how come there is a 007 to begin with?


    Personally speaking I can't see how you can have two 007s in active service at the same time. Seems silly. It's possible Nomi is 007 and Bond returns to the service but isn't given a 00 prefix. He's just James Bond on temporary service. That might work. I dunno. Who knows! It's all make-believe, you can do what like! 8-} ;))


    Well yeah, he won't be 007 if she is.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,400
    thee are about a 100 easy and simple explanations which adequately explain this to anyone struggling.

    It's akin to the iconic No.7 shirt at Manchester United. Bond was once 007 but now Nomi is the incumbent 007.

    589885e5b50e8cb486000001.jpeg

    The '007' monkier is a code name given to a spy. Different people can take on the monkier. Much like how 'Captain America' was once a monkier used by Steve Rodgers and is now used by Sam Wilson

    main-qimg-c3ecde8d5063dbed26f3ff9fa14fa148

    So much of the ‘Nomi is 007’ story is dependent on the execution. If it’s used for quick gag, then yes, you can say it’s a gimmick. But if we see Nomi develop and progress as a character and earn the mantle alongside the audience’s respect, we may end up walking out of Bond 25 happy that it was her that took up the moniker.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,677
    I have no problem with Nomi being 007 for a while.

    Oh, and...

    All 00s have a short life expectancy...except for James Bond.

    Just saying.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    thee are about a 100 easy and simple explanations which adequately explain this to anyone struggling.

    It's akin to the iconic No.7 shirt at Manchester United. Bond was once 007 but now Nomi is the incumbent 007.

    589885e5b50e8cb486000001.jpeg

    The '007' monkier is a code name given to a spy. Different people can take on the monkier. Much like how 'Captain America' was once a monkier used by Steve Rodgers and is now used by Sam Wilson

    main-qimg-c3ecde8d5063dbed26f3ff9fa14fa148

    So much of the ‘Nomi is 007’ story is dependent on the execution. If it’s used for quick gag, then yes, you can say it’s a gimmick. But if we see Nomi develop and progress as a character and earn the mantle alongside the audience’s respect, we may end up walking out of Bond 25 happy that it was her that took up the moniker.

    Aargh. Is that a massive spoiler for a film I haven't seen yet?
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,400
    mtm wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    thee are about a 100 easy and simple explanations which adequately explain this to anyone struggling.

    It's akin to the iconic No.7 shirt at Manchester United. Bond was once 007 but now Nomi is the incumbent 007.

    589885e5b50e8cb486000001.jpeg

    The '007' monkier is a code name given to a spy. Different people can take on the monkier. Much like how 'Captain America' was once a monkier used by Steve Rodgers and is now used by Sam Wilson

    main-qimg-c3ecde8d5063dbed26f3ff9fa14fa148

    So much of the ‘Nomi is 007’ story is dependent on the execution. If it’s used for quick gag, then yes, you can say it’s a gimmick. But if we see Nomi develop and progress as a character and earn the mantle alongside the audience’s respect, we may end up walking out of Bond 25 happy that it was her that took up the moniker.

    Aargh. Is that a massive spoiler for a film I haven't seen yet?

    That's on you, bro

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,343
    Univex wrote: »
    I have no problem with Nomi being 007 for a while.

    Oh, and...

    All 00s have a short life expectancy...except for James Bond.

    Just saying.

    Big +1!

    I have no problems with Nomi being 007... for just ONE movie.

    What Pierce suggests if I got it correctly is just wrong. 007 is not a moniker. Like it is not just a symbol that stands for something more. 007 is one of the codenames agents are being given in this franchise. The symbol that stands for this franchise’s success and legacy is JAMES BOND and everything he represents. JB is not interchangeable and will never be. As Nolan brilliantly showed in TDKR, everyone can be Batman, if he’s/she’s worth the cape. The same rule works for Cap America too. But we’re not talking superhero’s being a symbol that stands for something here. We are talking about the JAMES BOND franchise and this premise can work just for one movie. Again, JB is not interchangeable, nor 007 is a symbol that stands for something. JB is, and him being 007 is just a part of his mythology.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2019 Posts: 15,108
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    thee are about a 100 easy and simple explanations which adequately explain this to anyone struggling.

    It's akin to the iconic No.7 shirt at Manchester United. Bond was once 007 but now Nomi is the incumbent 007.

    589885e5b50e8cb486000001.jpeg

    The '007' monkier is a code name given to a spy. Different people can take on the monkier. Much like how 'Captain America' was once a monkier used by Steve Rodgers and is now used by Sam Wilson

    main-qimg-c3ecde8d5063dbed26f3ff9fa14fa148

    So much of the ‘Nomi is 007’ story is dependent on the execution. If it’s used for quick gag, then yes, you can say it’s a gimmick. But if we see Nomi develop and progress as a character and earn the mantle alongside the audience’s respect, we may end up walking out of Bond 25 happy that it was her that took up the moniker.

    Aargh. Is that a massive spoiler for a film I haven't seen yet?

    That's on you, bro

    Not really: you're the one who said it. C'mon. You can just be normal and say sorry.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited July 2019 Posts: 19,339
    mtm wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    thee are about a 100 easy and simple explanations which adequately explain this to anyone struggling.

    It's akin to the iconic No.7 shirt at Manchester United. Bond was once 007 but now Nomi is the incumbent 007.

    589885e5b50e8cb486000001.jpeg

    The '007' monkier is a code name given to a spy. Different people can take on the monkier. Much like how 'Captain America' was once a monkier used by Steve Rodgers and is now used by Sam Wilson

    main-qimg-c3ecde8d5063dbed26f3ff9fa14fa148

    So much of the ‘Nomi is 007’ story is dependent on the execution. If it’s used for quick gag, then yes, you can say it’s a gimmick. But if we see Nomi develop and progress as a character and earn the mantle alongside the audience’s respect, we may end up walking out of Bond 25 happy that it was her that took up the moniker.

    Aargh. Is that a massive spoiler for a film I haven't seen yet?

    Shit !!

    I haven't seen that before either !! ....I didn't know that even happens.

    I f*****g well do now .

    You pillock @Pierce2Daniel .
  • SaniSani
    Posts: 71
    We just repeat the same sentences.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    2) Daniel Craig will be the main man in this film as James Bond,

    3) Nomi will be 007 in this film and this film only

    I know and I wrote it.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    4) EON are not going all 'feminine' with Bond

    EON is just copy the trend as in 2006. (the reboot) Now this is the trend.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    5) Giving another 00 agent the 007 number is no different to MI6 than giving someone 001-0020,Bond doesn't have a copyright to this number,and has retired,why should they retire the number too ? it's just a number,its the agent that makes the difference.

    Of course, it can be explained as I have already written, just I really hate this idea.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I know there are a lot of young members on here that grew up with Brosnan and Craig as their Bond's,but seriously,get a grip and support the bloody film and EON,dont join the other arseholes out there - you are supposed to be a SERIOUS James Bond fan,if not then you shouldn't be on this forum.

    I don't think that I'm too young. (I'm 30s.)
    My favourite Bond films: Dr. No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Casino Royale, Skyfall.
    Unfortunately, now for the first time, I can't support EON, so maybe I shouldn't be here.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Yeah really it's just something really different only apply to this film only it's like I can tolerate it as long as it doesn't affect the future.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Sani wrote: »
    We just repeat the same sentences.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    2) Daniel Craig will be the main man in this film as James Bond,

    3) Nomi will be 007 in this film and this film only

    I know and I wrote it.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    4) EON are not going all 'feminine' with Bond

    EON is just copy the trend as in 2006. (the reboot) Now this is the trend.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    5) Giving another 00 agent the 007 number is no different to MI6 than giving someone 001-0020,Bond doesn't have a copyright to this number,and has retired,why should they retire the number too ? it's just a number,its the agent that makes the difference.

    Of course, it can be explained as I have already written, just I really hate this idea.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I know there are a lot of young members on here that grew up with Brosnan and Craig as their Bond's,but seriously,get a grip and support the bloody film and EON,dont join the other arseholes out there - you are supposed to be a SERIOUS James Bond fan,if not then you shouldn't be on this forum.

    I don't think that I'm too young. (I'm 30s.)
    My favourite Bond films: Dr. No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Casino Royale, Skyfall.
    Unfortunately, now for the first time, I can't support EON, so maybe I shouldn't be here.

    No,i wasn't directing this at you personally,its to everyone on the forum,actually I include myself in that over the last few weeks !!
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,677
    matt_u wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    I have no problem with Nomi being 007 for a while.

    Oh, and...

    All 00s have a short life expectancy...except for James Bond.

    Just saying.

    Big +1!

    I have no problems with Nomi being 007... for just ONE movie.

    What Pierce suggests if I got it correctly is just wrong. 007 is not a moniker. Like it is not just a symbol that stands for something more. 007 is one of the codenames agents are being given in this franchise. The symbol that stands for this franchise’s success and legacy is JAMES BOND and everything he represents. JB is not interchangeable and will never be. As Nolan brilliantly showed in TDKR, everyone can be Batman, if he’s/she’s worth the cape. The same rule works for Cap America too. But we’re not talking superhero’s being a symbol that stands for something here. We are talking about the JAMES BOND franchise and this premise can work just for one movie. Again, JB is not interchangeable, nor 007 is a symbol that stands for something. JB is, and him being 007 is just a part of his mythology.

    +1(000) to this, @matt_u - Mr. Roark. Changing a mythology forever is somewhat of an oxymoron. Mythologies, after all, are built upon archetypes.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    So are folks genuinely thinking that the 007 logo will never be seen on a Bond movie again after this? I'm still trying to get a handle on the 'no one else should be 007' issue.
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