George Lazenby and Pierce Brosnan's War of Words

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,334
    Brosnan could carry his films. Lazenby couldn't alone, His supporting cast help carry his film. Sure the man can throw some pretty big punches but his accent needed some honing. OHMSS is a good film, but not because of Lazenby. Funny how this thread started of Brosnan and Lazenby's squabbles with each other to which one of the two could kick one's @$$.

    It's so easy to blame Brosnan for being a bad Bond because of Die Another Day. Die Another Day wasn't Brosnan's fault. It was Lee Tamahori's fault. The man who believed in the codename theory and wanted Sean Connery to play Bond's father. Much like Roger Moore, Brosnan is unfairly crucified for being the worst when he's not. Yes it's sad Dalton couldn't do more than two movie but that's not Brosnan's fault, nor is Die Another Day. You don't blame the actor for the poor quality film. That usually goes to the Director and Producers. Neither Lazenby or Brosnan are perfect actors but they each did their thing and left.

    It's called trends. One decade won't be the same as the last. 70's Bond wasn't the same as 60's Bond. 90's Bond sure wasn't 80's Bond either. Things change.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    They changed his background a bit for Craig's rebooted Bond but Bond was always meant to be a special forces operative as a young man. To which point he moved up the ranks in the Royal Navy and was eventually recruited by MI6.
    Murdock wrote:
    Brosnan could carry his films. Lazenby couldn't alone, His supporting cast help carry his film. Sure the man can throw some pretty big punches but his accent needed some honing. OHMSS is a good film, but not because of Lazenby. Funny how this thread started of Brosnan and Lazenby's squabbles with each other to which one of the two could kick one's @$$.

    It's so easy to blame Brosnan for being a bad Bond because of Die Another Day. Die Another Day wasn't Brosnan's fault. It was Lee Tamahori's fault. The man who believed in the codename theory and wanted Sean Connery to play Bond's father. Much like Roger Moore, Brosnan is unfairly crucified for being the worst when he's not. Yes it's sad Dalton couldn't do more than two movie but that's not Brosnan's fault, nor is Die Another Day. You don't blame the actor for the poor quality film. That usually goes to the Director and Producers. Neither Lazenby or Brosnan are perfect actors but they each did their thing and left.

    It's called trends. One decade won't be the same as the last. 70's Bond wasn't the same as 60's Bond. 90's Bond sure wasn't 80's Bond either. Things change.

    I've never once blamed Brosnan for the quality of his films. However I do hold him accountable for what I consider to be 4 of the dullest and most uninspired performances in the entire series. His was the only Bond I just flat-out didn't like on screen. Bond was a badass spy who just so happened to have tremendous amounts of style. Brosnan played him as a snarky, unlikable, effeminate pansy who had to try to be cool rather than let it flow naturally. Again just my opinion.

    Even Moore, in his younger appearances(i.e. LALD and TMWTGG), when he wanted to came off as more threatening than Brosnan. Maybe it was Brosnan's thin and soft voice, his scrawny build, or just his lack of gravitas as an actor. Whatever the reason I found him to be far and above the worst casting decision in the franchise.
  • Posts: 14,859
    And while Brosnan most definitely has my sympathy as a human being that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook his obvious weaknesses as an actor and the childish and immature manner he responded to EON moving on with the franchise without him for what ended up being several years. The man just wouldn't give it a rest and came off like a spoiled little child who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas and was going to let everyone know.

    That pretty much sums it up for me.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    Vesper calls Bond an "SAS type" when they first meet in CR but his background is never actually confirmed until SF when M is writing his obituary. In it, we have confirmation that Bond is a Commander in the British Navy. I was really pleased about this as I hated the thought that Bond was an SAS commando.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    Vesper calls Bond an "SAS type" when they first meet in CR but his background is never actually confirmed until SF when M is writing his obituary. In it, we have confirmation that Bond is a Commander in the British Navy. I was really pleased about this as I hated the thought that Bond was an SAS commando.

    In 2006 they released an updated military record for Daniel Craig's Bond that stated he was a Special Forces operative for 3 years before moving onto defense intelligence. I'll post the link below. I'm pretty sure Fleming's Bond also served in Special Forces during WW2. Either way Bond was always envisioned as a badass man of action. Not just an armchair commander.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3
  • Posts: 6,396
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    Vesper calls Bond an "SAS type" when they first meet in CR but his background is never actually confirmed until SF when M is writing his obituary. In it, we have confirmation that Bond is a Commander in the British Navy. I was really pleased about this as I hated the thought that Bond was an SAS commando.

    In 2006 they released an updated military record for Daniel Craig's Bond that stated he was a Special Forces operative for 3 years before moving onto defense intelligence. I'll post the link below. I'm pretty sure Fleming's Bond also served in Special Forces during WW2.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3

    Yes but even with the updated bio for Bond, the Special Forces unit he was a member of is still part of the Royal Navy.

    The SAS are attached to the British Army and are based out of Hereford, for which the rank of Commander does not exist (I think the army equivalent is now Lieutenant Colonel).

    Bond has never been assigned or seconded to the army.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,425
    So if he was special forces in the navy he would have been SBS, presumably?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,905
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    In the bio for Craig's Bond, he was supposed to be ex-SAS. Which I find hard to believe, given his problems with authority.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    Vesper calls Bond an "SAS type" when they first meet in CR but his background is never actually confirmed until SF when M is writing his obituary. In it, we have confirmation that Bond is a Commander in the British Navy. I was really pleased about this as I hated the thought that Bond was an SAS commando.

    In 2006 they released an updated military record for Daniel Craig's Bond that stated he was a Special Forces operative for 3 years before moving onto defense intelligence. I'll post the link below. I'm pretty sure Fleming's Bond also served in Special Forces during WW2. Either way Bond was always envisioned as a badass man of action. Not just an armchair commander.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3

    That comment has just made me realise that that phrase applied to Moore through and through. Yes Moore has a fairly commanding physical presence onscreen but he doesn't really come off quite well as a "man of action" (though I did like his leadership in TSWLM during the climax).

    Out of interest @Doubleohhseven have you seen The Fourth Protocol with Brosnan in which he plays a KGB agent? It's not bad.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    In the bio for Craig's Bond, he was supposed to be ex-SAS. Which I find hard to believe, given his problems with authority.

    The bio makes no mention of SAS.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Bond was a badass spy who just so happened to have tremendous amounts of style.

    I've always seen these as the other way around. For me, Bond is a guy who revels in the finer things in life. Whether it's food, cars, women, drinking, gambling, he's a bon vivant, much like his creator. It's what gets him through the day and helps him with the filthy task of killing. He's certainly not what you define as a cliched SAS type.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Funny how this has suddenly come to revolve around Roger Moore and Daniel Craig.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Fleming described Bond as a "blunt instrument". Brosnan may be pretty slick and cool but (I hate to say this) I'm not sure I'd describe him as a "blunt instrument". The same goes for Moore and I like him too. The only three actors that really reflect that decription are Connery, Lazenby and Craig.

    That said Moore and Brosnan ARE charismatic likeable actors, which make up for their overall lack of physical edge.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,905
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    In the bio for Craig's Bond, he was supposed to be ex-SAS. Which I find hard to believe, given his problems with authority.

    The bio makes no mention of SAS.

    Doesn't it, I thought it did. :-? Either way, that does change Craig's Bond being ill though out.

    EDIT:

    You are right it doesn't:

    http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/James_Bond_(Daniel_Craig)

    But my point still stands, not matter what he served in pre-MI6.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 6,396
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    In the bio for Craig's Bond, he was supposed to be ex-SAS. Which I find hard to believe, given his problems with authority.

    The bio makes no mention of SAS.

    Doesn't it, I thought it did. :-? Either way, that does change Craig's Bond being ill though out.

    EDIT:

    You are right it doesn't:

    http://jamesbond.wikia.com/wiki/James_Bond_(Daniel_Craig)

    But my point still stands, not matter what he served in pre-MI6.

    Any chance to stick the knife into Craig eh @Major? ;-)

    EDIT: I actually blame the writers (probably Purvis & Wade) for the whole "former SAS type" line in CR. That's where the confusion lies. It should have been "former Special Forces/Royal Marines"
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    In the bio for Craig's Bond, he was supposed to be ex-SAS. Which I find hard to believe, given his problems with authority.

    The bio makes no mention of SAS.

    I know I stand corrected. But he was still Special Forces which still makes him, as Sir Roger said in Boat Trip " a badass MoFo".
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Is Bond really supposed to have been in the SAS? I never heard that before. I thought he was ex Royal Navy.

    Vesper calls Bond an "SAS type" when they first meet in CR but his background is never actually confirmed until SF when M is writing his obituary. In it, we have confirmation that Bond is a Commander in the British Navy. I was really pleased about this as I hated the thought that Bond was an SAS commando.

    In 2006 they released an updated military record for Daniel Craig's Bond that stated he was a Special Forces operative for 3 years before moving onto defense intelligence. I'll post the link below. I'm pretty sure Fleming's Bond also served in Special Forces during WW2. Either way Bond was always envisioned as a badass man of action. Not just an armchair commander.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3

    That comment has just made me realise that that phrase applied to Moore through and through. Yes Moore has a fairly commanding physical presence onscreen but he doesn't really come off quite well as a "man of action" (though I did like his leadership in TSWLM during the climax).

    Out of interest @Doubleohhseven have you seen The Fourth Protocol with Brosnan in which he plays a KGB agent? It's not bad.

    I still think Moore trumps Brosnan in being a man of action. He got softer as he got older but in his first 3 films Moore was a force to be reckoned with. The best example is the way he quickly adapts to field commander after he frees the troops in TSWLM. No jokes but all business. That's one of the reasons I love TSWLM. It showed us more of the military James Bond than any other film.

    No I never saw The Forth Protocol but I'll have to give it a watch one of these days.
    RC7 wrote:
    Bond was a badass spy who just so happened to have tremendous amounts of style.

    I've always seen these as the other way around. For me, Bond is a guy who revels in the finer things in life. Whether it's food, cars, women, drinking, gambling, he's a bon vivant, much like his creator. It's what gets him through the day and helps him with the filthy task of killing. He's certainly not what you define as a cliched SAS type.

    I guess it comes down to perception. I saw Bond as a tough soldier as a young man who got into the finer things a little later in life. To me Bond works best when the "perfect gentleman" image he is associated with is a facade hiding the nasty bastard boarder-line thug he is underneath. Connery and Craig perfected this.

  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think Brosnan handles the action fairly well (i.e. the archive shootout in Goldeneye). Brosnan seems to be a good sprinter.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 1,778
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think Brosnan handles the action fairly well (i.e. the archive shootout in Goldeneye).

    Don't even get me started with Brosnan and those damn machine-guns that had 1000 round clips. The difference was Moore had a dozens of troops backing him up in TSWLM. Brosnan would take on armies by himself. Atleast in Skyfall Craig's Bond had to rely on boobie-traps and home field advantage. Plus he wasn't up against nearly as many men as say Bond in TND.

    And in terms of physical action Brosnan doesn't hold a candle to Connery, Craig, Lazman, or even the Daltonator.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Good old Lazman - the forgotten Bond!
  • Getafix wrote:
    Good old Lazman - the forgotten Bond!

    I kinda like that as his nickname. Maybe it'll stick. ;)
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    TND went too far with the machine gun action. The whole scene seemed to go on for ages, but in GE the shootout is quite short and the editing makes it exciting.

    I'd say in terms of running Broz is on par with Dalton but not so much with Laz, T1000 Craig or (early) Connery.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Just imagine if all six actors had gotten together for the 50th anniversary. Brosnan throws a quip at Lazenby, who then attacks him with full force. Sir Roger steps between them to calm them down, but accidentally gets a black eye. Sean, Tim and Dan run to his rescue and all hell breaks loose with a fullscale bar-room brawl ensuing. The headlines...Maybe a good thing it never happened. (Thanks,Connery. )
  • Posts: 6,396
    BAIN123 wrote:
    TND went too far with the machine gun action. The whole scene seemed to go on for ages, but in GE the shootout is quite short and the editing makes it exciting.

    I'd say in terms of running Broz is on par with Dalton but not so much with Laz, T1000 Craig or (early) Connery.

    One of my biggest gripes in TND is how Brosnan handles guns. From the sideways shooting in the PTS to the twin handed and, later on, one handed shootout on the stealth boat.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    TND went too far with the machine gun action. The whole scene seemed to go on for ages, but in GE the shootout is quite short and the editing makes it exciting.

    I'd say in terms of running Broz is on par with Dalton but not so much with Laz, T1000 Craig or (early) Connery.

    One of my biggest gripes in TND is how Brosnan handles guns. From the sideways shooting in the PTS to the twin handed and, later on, one handed shootout on the stealth boat.

    I suspect someone on set was saying "hold the gun sideways Pierce, that looks brilliant" :D
  • Posts: 6,396
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    TND went too far with the machine gun action. The whole scene seemed to go on for ages, but in GE the shootout is quite short and the editing makes it exciting.

    I'd say in terms of running Broz is on par with Dalton but not so much with Laz, T1000 Craig or (early) Connery.

    One of my biggest gripes in TND is how Brosnan handles guns. From the sideways shooting in the PTS to the twin handed and, later on, one handed shootout on the stealth boat.

    I suspect someone on set was saying "hold the gun sideways Pierce, that looks brilliant" :D

    He does it again during TWINE at the caviar factory.

    I don't blame Brosnan for this before anyone thinks I'm sticking the boot in just for the sake of it. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of both the director and, more importantly, the stunt co-ordinator to make it look as realistic as possible. It all comes across as cartoonish. Almost like playing a game of COD where you're continually shooting from the hip.

    The climax of SF at least gets it right in this respect. Craig is shouldering the gun correctly and takes aim down the sights when firing.
  • Just imagine if all six actors had gotten together for the 50th anniversary. Brosnan throws a quip at Lazenby, who then attacks him with full force. Sir Roger steps between them to calm them down, but accidentally gets a black eye. Sean, Tim and Dan run to his rescue and all hell breaks loose with a fullscale bar-room brawl ensuing. The headlines...Maybe a good thing it never happened. (Thanks,Connery. )

    I there was a thread a couple years ago where members stages the 6 man battle-royale. I wrote a pretty in depth sequence. Brosnan gets demolished by the other 5 actors after complaining about his paycheck, followed by Moore getting knocked off, followed by Dalton. Leaving the three "physical Bonds". Craig and Lazman double team Connery and kill him. Then it's mano-e-mano. Even though I prefer Craig infinitely over Lazenby I gave it to Lazman. The underdog gets his day. I think I'm gonna look up that thread.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Oh, please do. That sounds like fun.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Brosnan throws a quip at Lazenby, who then attacks him with full force.

    Did anyone ever find evidence of Brosnan having a pop at Lazenby, when he was hired for GE? I know @DoubleOhhSeven said he saw/heard/dreamt it, but I feel until we have evidence I'm going to have to stick with the notion it was George who kicked it off. The ruddy scallywag.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I've never seen it either - but there must be something that sparked what seems to be a pretty bitter feud between the two.
  • RC7 wrote:
    Brosnan throws a quip at Lazenby, who then attacks him with full force.

    Did anyone ever find evidence of Brosnan having a pop at Lazenby, when he was hired for GE? I know @DoubleOhhSeven said he saw/heard/dreamt it, but I feel until we have evidence I'm going to have to stick with the notion it was George who kicked it off. The ruddy scallywag.

    The lengths some people will go to defend their favorite actors never ceases to amaze me. I know what I saw and heard. Google it if you're going to get so defensive. The Sun Nov. 10th 1995.
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