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The Eurovision Song Contest Thread

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited April 2017 Posts: 11,119
    @BondJasonBond006 . Before 1975 the voting procedures were very different:

    1956:
    Internal selection of the winner

    1957-1961:
    Per country, 10 jurymembers each awarded 1 point to their favourite song.

    1962:
    Each country awarded 3, 2 and 1 point to its TOP 3 (by a jury).

    1963:
    Each country awarded 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 point to its TOP 5 (by a jury), becomes more similar to today's voting system.

    1964-1966:
    Each country awarded 5, 3 and 1 point to its TOP 3 (by a jury).

    1967-1970:
    Per country, 10 jurymembers each awarded 1 point to their favourite song.

    1971-1973:
    Per country, 2 jurymembers each awarded 5-1 points to every song.

    1974:
    Per country, 10 jurymembers each awarded 1 point to their favourite song.

    1975-present:
    The grand old system of voting. Each country awarded 12, 10, 8-1 points to its TOP 10 (by a jury). Per year there were some smaller or bigger changes within this voting system:
    ---> 1975-1979: The current voting system was presented in the order of appearance of the country.
    ---> 1980-present: The current voting system was presented in the TOP 10 ranking order of each country (creating more suspense).
    ---> 1975-1997: The result was decided with a 100% jury system. In every country there were juries containing 15 jury members and 1 jury chairman (first 100% televoting system testing in 1997, with 5 countries).
    ---> 1998-2008: The result was decided with a 100% televoting system (with some countries deciding upon a jury system if they couldn't organize a televote. also, in 2001 and 2002 already some countries had a combined 50%jury/50%televoting system).
    ---> 2009-present: The result was decided with a mixed system of 50% juries and 50% televotes. The new juries now had 5 jury members and not, like in the 1990's, 15 judges. (in 2009 they started to apply this in the big final only. then from 2010 and onwards it was rolled out in the semi-finals too).
    ---> 2009-2012: The mixed system was 'not connected', meaning that only the TOP 10's of the televote and the jury in each country were combined.
    ---> 2013-2015: The mixed system was 'connected', meaning that the entire ranking (TOP 19 in semi's, TOP 26 in finals) of both the televote and the jury in each country were combined (reasoning behind this was, that many specialty songs that eg. came 11th or 12th in both the televote and the jury, would have a better chance to gain points)
    ---> 2016-present: All the jury votes and televotes will be 'disconnected' again and will be presented as such. First each country announces the 100% jury vote, where each spokesperson only announces the TOP score of 12 points. Secondly, the 100% televote will be presented in ascending TOP 26 ranking order (reasoning behind this was to create more suspense and tension near the end of the voting)


    Ooowh, and now the voting presentation of the 1972 Contest. The presenter is explaining about the new voting system. The fight for the trophy was a tense one in which the UK, The Netherlands and Luxembourg were fighting for the big Prize. Later on during the voting also Germany joined the fight :-):


  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Eurovision 1972 is one of my favourite years. I just loved the orchestration that year (with lots of violins and percussion instruments). The final TOP 5 was also utterly lovely :-):

    1st PLACE:


    2nd PLACE:


    3rd PLACE:


    4th PLACE: (hear the public clapping on this one!)


    5th PLACE: (you have hipsters now, and you especially got them in 1972!)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Anyone?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,553
    How come the UK still have a candidate in this contest?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    Nice work Gustav_Graves.

    I like the British song the most of the four ...
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    But also the Austrian is quite nice... Do you understand German and know what the song is about @Gustav_Graves?
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    GBF wrote: »
    But also the Austrian is quite nice... Do you understand German and know what the song is about @Gustav_Graves?

    But now I am confused :O. Are you Australian or German? I think on the previous page you said you were German....

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    I am German and I understand what it is about :-) But I wanted to know if you understand it... Otherwise I could tell you :-)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Verka Serduchka reminds me of Blofeld in DAF.
  • dragonskydragonsky
    Posts: 2,491
    Great cover of ours Eurovision song:

    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Verka Serduchka reminds me of Blofeld in DAF.

    :-)) :-))

    How come I never realized this? Amazing!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited April 2017 Posts: 11,119
    Here are the betting odds of the 11th of April 2017. Exactly one month before the start of the first semi-final of Eurovision 2017 :-):

    Jfmya3J.png

    And here's a nice video of the construction of the stage. They started the construction last Sunday and they are right on schedule. So can we now please stop pressing the panic button regarding moving the contest to another country :-)?

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    And another throwback to the 1974's, this time the 19th contest in 1974 in Brighton. A memorable one. But also have a look at the rest of the TOP 5 please ;-):

    1ST PLACE: The unforgettable ABBA!


    2ND PLACE: Perhaps the best ballad of the 1970's


    3RD PLACE: As happy and whicked as ABBA


    three countries ended in 4TH PLACE: Monaco, United Kingdom & Luxemburg
    First the Australian Olivia Newton John ;-)

    My favourite 4th place, Monaco!

    And Luxemburg's Ireen Sheer!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I am entirely disappointed about the withdrawal of Russia in this year's contest. It makes me angry too.

    However, given the current state of geopolitical affairs, I'm not surprised this happens. Actually, if you look back in Eurovision history, it reminds me a bit of 1969/1970, when Franco-Spain was going to organize the contest. It had a short-time effect on the contest, as there were quite a few boycots in Madrid. Especially from a large string of conductors. The year after in Amsterdam the contest got even more severely boycotted, thus only 12 countries participated.

    It stinks, it sucks, but sadly geopolitical conflicts are reflected in many other -what appear to be- non-political events, like football, the Olympics and Eurovision. Remember the absence of Russian athletes in Rio? Or what to think of the attack on Borussia Dortmund players. And now Eurovision. It's the sad sad truth of today's world. So it's time for a Eurovision song that reflected a more positive spirit in Europe :-(.

    Almost three decades ago, this won for Italy:


    PS: Let's not start a long political discussion. I think mymessage doesn't show any siding with a particular country or any anger. Let's accept this bad news and make Eurovision 2017 a great event after all.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited April 2017 Posts: 11,119
    God......*sigh*.......What did I just say. Look @BondJasonBond006 . Just read your message. And compare it with mine. Do you see a difference? There's absolutely no tiny bit of nuance in your message. It's like Russia is the clear victim, Ukraine is the bad villain and then that's it. It's cheap, it lacks any perspective, and it doesn't contribute to a good discussion about the facts and not about 'your facts'.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    .
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Russia have already decided to send Julija next year.

    Unless Ukraine should win again, of course. Then it will be a problem.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Russia have already decided to send Julija next year.

    Unless Ukraine should win again, of course. Then it will be a problem.

    I advise you to listen to Ewan Spence's podcast from ESCinsight. Apparently, the Russian broadcaster deliberately decided on the EBU deadline (for delivering the songs) and right at the start of the Head of Delegations meeting early March, before the travel ban was issued, the Russian broadcaster 'decided' not to attend. That's all a bit fishy no?

    Anyway, please listen to this podcast, and the earlier article from Ewan Spence about the Gerasimov Doctrine. I now hope people in here stop choosing sides, by realizing that both Ukraine and Russia are guilty as plead, and that the EBU sadly is a bit too naive to deal with the Gerasimov Doctrine:

    http://escinsight.com/2017/04/14/eurovision-insight-podcast-forty-three-become-forty-two/
    The Doctrine Bringing Politics Into This Year’s Eurovision Song Contest

    Right then, deep breath, let’s have a look behind the headlines of Yuliya Samoylova’s inability to represent Russia on Ukrainian soil at the 62nd Eurovision Song Contest in May this year.

    So far the headlines have focused on Samoylova’s ability to visit Kyiv. Chosen by Russia’s Channel 1 through an internal selection process and announced on March 12th, Samoylova was set to sing ‘Flame Is Burning’ in the second Semi Final on May 11th 2017. Following that announcement, Ukraine’s intelligence agencies investigated Samoylova and discovered she had performed in the Crimea Peninsula.
    by: Ewan Spence


    Previously annexed by Russia, Samoylova had entered the peninsula directly from Russia to perform in Kerch in 2015. By not transiting through Ukrainian border control she violated Ukrainian law, which has resulted in an entry ban being placed on the singer for three years.

    As it stands Russia has a singer and song that meets the entry criteria for the Song Contest, yet the singer will not be allowed to travel to the Contest to sing because it would break Ukrainian law.

    Quite frankly, this situation goes way beyond Europe’s Favourite TV Show. What is clear is that the situation is not being played out between the Ukrainian and Russian broadcasters (UA:PBC and Channel 1 respectively), but between the Ukrainian and Russian governments. To get any sort of focus on this, we need to turn away from the Song Contest.

    Crimea
    After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, Crimea was regarded as part of the newly independent Ukraine, a situation that resulted in ongoing diplomatic tensions between Ukraine and Russia. After following part of the process to declare self-governance it agreed to remain part of Ukraine (you can read more on this here).

    In 2014 Russian separatists and Russian Armed forces occupied the territory, and following a referendum that Ukraine did not recognise as legitimate, Russia annexed Crimea as federal subjects of Russia (you can read more on this here).
    There is now a military stand-off, but the political and strategic goals of the two countries remain the same. At this point let’s examine the situation through what is widely known as ‘The Gerasimov Doctrine’, first published in the Military Industrial Courier.

    How To Fight A War Without Fighting A War
    The Doctrine is named after General Valery Gerasimov, the current Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces. It suggests methods of conducting political warfare to reach a strategic goal by mixing traditional military tactics with diplomatic, economic and cultural pressure. Molly McKew for Politico:

    "Political warfare is meant to achieve specific political outcomes favorable to the Kremlin: it is preferred to physical conflict because it is cheap and easy. The Kremlin has many notches in its belt in this category, some of which have been attributed, many likely not. It’s a mistake to see this campaign in the traditional terms of political alliances: rarely has the goal been to install overtly pro-Russian governments. Far more often, the goal is simply to replace Western-style democratic regimes with illiberal, populist, or nationalist ones."

    The doctrine has also been studied by Dr Mark Galeotti, who highlights that the unconventional approaches and unique circumstances of a conflict can lead to opportunities to unbalance the enemy, forcing them to expend extra effort and resources to counter movements:

    "The information space opens wide asymmetrical possibilities for reducing the fighting potential of the enemy."

    The more confusion that can be created over an issue, the more an opponent is forced to react. The longer that the confusion can remain at the top of a news cycle, the more resources need to be used to counter the attacks. In an added twist, part of the approach can be denying that this approach is being used!

    Back To Eurovision
    If you decide to look at both sides of the Yuliya Samoylova situation through the prism of this doctrine, perhaps the manoeuvrings of both sides become clearer. The Russian government has found another way to wage war by proxy through its singer, while the Ukrainian government has found a way to exert power over Russia through the blacklist and Samoylova.

    The doctrine can apply no matter which side you believe is in the right. And stuck in the middle of this media powered non-linear warfare is the EBU and the Eurovision Song Contest.

    The stakes for both Ukraine and Russia are of far higher priority than ensuring the smooth running of the Song Contest. The geopolitics of the region are not – no matter the good intentions of the Contest – going to be swayed by the needs of a three-minute song.

    Finding a solution that is acceptable to all sides is going to be an immense challenge for the EBU, and whatever solution is found will need to be seen as ‘an acceptable victory’ to both Ukraine and Russia both on the wider world stage and inside each country’s respective borders. The clock is ticking and I suspect that it is too late for an accommodating answer to be found for this year’s Song Contest.

    So I hope certain people in this topic, especially @BondJasonBond006 ;-), first invest in a bit of extensive reading on how complex the Ukraine-Russia-conflict is. Before one blatantly supports one side and is slamming the other side.

    Ask yourself this: How would you react if the Italian-speaking part of Switzerland was annexed by Italy? Would you peacefully accept this and suddenly apply new laws that are favouring Italy? But off course not!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If the Swiss government was removed by a fascist coup, who would blame them?
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    If the Swiss government was removed by a fascist coup, who would blame them?

    :))
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Also, the annual EuroJury from http://eurovoix.com is taking place. Let me give a short explanation of this jury. Part of it is in fact a true 'shadow jury' of the real (100%) jury at the Eurovision Song Contest. And apparently professional betters on various betting exchange and bookmaker sites are extensively using EuroJury for their betting portfolio's.

    Every country has in between 1 to 5 judges. And most of them are actually ex-Eurovision participants or other music professionals. Hence the EuroJury is perhaps the most accurate prediction 'poll' of Eurovision.

    The final results will be broadcasted during a live BBC Radio Broadcast on April and on EuroVoix. Then the full results will be announced in a true Eurovision style format. Which is the combined results of the EuroJury-Jury (50%) and the EuroJury-Fanpoll (50%). Until then, every day three countries will release their TOP 10 points without the TOP 2 points of 10 and 12 ponts.

    Here are the full results from the 2016 EuroJury. Just compare the EuroJury-jury results with the 100% jury results from Eurovision (it also silences all those critical voices that juries are corrupt):
    OKRyIaF.png

    And here are the current results of the EuroJury-jury after 16 countries have voted:

    The BIG 5:
    5btSlga.png

    Semi-Final #1:
    5zX6fYD.png

    Semi-Final #2:
    xtrRQQ3.png

    Keep following https://eurovoix.com/2017/04/15/eurojury-2017-results-serbia/ every day for more results :-).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Just read what I said. And try to ask yourself why there's actually so much anti-Russia sentiment. Yes it's a fact. But the fact that you realize it's a fact is pretty useless if I may say so. Good facts exist out of study, good reading and seeing complexities. Not observing only.

    So again, there is a clear reason for the anti-Russia sentiment I think. It would be more useful to try and research WHY that is, and not because it is merely there! And again, I am not slamming the actual Russian Eurovision performers. On the contrary. But I do slam the Kremlin politics, which is treacherous and goes back to good old Soviet politics PLUS a large part of oligarchic capitalism. And I do slam the Ukrainian government as well, which shows itself as a copy-pasted Kremlin government. Again, you don't read anyhting I post and you're not drawing conclusions out of that.

    Please read the entire article I posted, please listen to the podcast, before you start typing out of emotional reaction.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    .
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2017 Posts: 9,020
    .
  • dragonskydragonsky
    edited April 2017 Posts: 2,491
    Agreed that there's a clear anti-Russian propaganda in the Eurovision. Shame :(

    PS: Lasha Tumbai is fucking amazing :D And back then ESC made Ukraine change from Russia Goodbye to Lasha Tumbai. What happeend with that ESC that doesn't like politics in the contest?
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