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The MI6 Community Discussion should be renamed...

jolearonjolearon
edited April 2013 in General Discussion Posts: 645
The MI6 Community Discussion should be renamed...

"We already have a thread for this, here's the link."

It seems countless entries I've read and posted are already a "thing" and sure that's great that we all think alike as Bond fans or movie buffs, but it's a huge, aggravating, waste of time for this site to be setup where people post what they think is an original thought and then you (random admin) individually goes to tell them the bad news.

It's a waste of time for the Admins and the person posting the thread. It seems every time I log on on here I read about people's frustrations with this issue, and it usually ends up that people are becoming mad at individual admins, and I'm guilty of that as well, but it's not your fault, and that's not the case.

This site should stay the same familiar way that people like to engage as a forum, but should have some modern updates, possibly limitations or just take away the option to post a new thread at all if this continues, it's highly frustrating, and the only reason you don't hear more fussing about it is for the admins closing the threads.

So after the few times I bother to take the time to visit this site, I occasionally have the anger that overwhelms me with dealing with this site, it's not friendly for the rest of the world who enjoys Bond and occasionally visits this site. No, this site is geared best for the daily followers who know by heart the names of threads and have seen them all, time and time again, nothing wrong with being on this site, I just hope you see my point and I know I'm not the only one.

I'm asking for two things.
1. Users comment and request a change for the better, I'm looking for a resolution to this madness.
2. A change be made by whoever runs this site.

PS: It would be sad to see this thread closed after a witty remark from an admin to end all comments, to say as if you had the official "last word" in the case, I assure you this is an important matter, so let's be nice people.

Thank you for your time,
Jole
«1

Comments

  • GermanladyGermanlady
    edited April 2013 Posts: 6,601
    Problem is, the structure of the old forum was a lot better suitable for the demands of a fan forum. Here everybody opens a thread for each - sometimes very silly titles - instead having a couple of "homes", where these things could be discussed. Like this, you have an endless option, where you MIGHT put your "watever it is, you want to post"
    Newbies can't possibly know, what the thread titles already there are named, so what should they search for? There is no sticky option, which is a big negative as well. This is the weakest forum structure I have ever seen.

    If, for example, we go to the Bond 24 and beyond. If you open that, why not have it like this?:

    News
    Rumors
    Director choices of members
    Bond girl choices
    Baddie choices
    General discussion and ideas

    This would cover it pretty much and you KNOW, where to go.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    I hear your frustration. I do not know what changes could be made that would be best. I do think that we can all use the search engine before posting a new thread, even new members. Perhaps there is some idea, suggestions, middle ground to be had.

    If we could "pin" a thread, perhaps that would be the biggest help, but we can't.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    Thank you @Germanlady and @4EverBonded , I think there is an easy fix to this, possibly an option when starting a thread as you type (like when searching on Google)
    it could auto display all similar thread titles... That would be a nice addition for starters. Then you could click the older thread instead of making a new duplicate of another.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    The forum has a pretty simple rule that we don't encourage duplicate threads. If you think about it, there's a pretty good reason why we don't. Sometimes we let a duplicate run if it's getting more activity and seems more relevant, but usually we'll close it and provide a link to the other thread. This shouldn't cause anger. You can simply add your views to an already developed discussion.
    As to whether or not "newbies" will have no idea if a thread exists or not, I'd point out that a little common sense might be engaged, followed by a brief search of the forum. For instance "who would make a good James Bond" has probably been discussed countless times, and even a newbie should realise that this can't be an original thread. Yet still they appear.
    Saying that the old forum was better structured I think is both true and false. There are some benefits here that vastly outstrip the old one. The search function being the most obvious.
    I do sympathise, because as much as people hate having their threads closed, we hate having to trawl through the boards and close them. But remember, you all agreed to the T&Cs when you joined, and not duplicating threads is a part of that.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    We should have an option to deleate our own threads/posts
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Oh, did I offend you, @jolearon? No need to get so dramatic over an issue as simple as this one. There is simply no reason to keep dozens of threads on the same topic, especially when those that came before it are more than satisfactory for the topic a user suggests. Overall it helps to make the site less cluttered and easier to navigate, where all the content on a certain topic is all in one place instead of in numerous others. I thought I might as well speak my mind on the issue, considering I am not alone in my thoughts either.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,498
    I think there's no difference in being a veteran member or a newbie, if you have common sense: it's one of the biggest James Bond fan forums, so it's heavily obvious that we've discussed pretty common topics. If you still think that there is something you'd like to discuss that might not be a topic, use the search function. It really does not matter in any way, shape, or form if you remember which topics exist and which don't. I could join a new forum and almost guarantee what I should and shouldn't open as a new topic, simply by using the brain (that thing in your skull) and the search function. Granted, in a rare case, it's possible that a thread may be worded in an odd way that makes your duplicate thread understandable. But, "What is your favorite Bond movie?" and "Who is your favorite Bond?" threads that are posted by anyone without having done any prior research just need to be shut down. There's a topic for it, why open another?

    Even getting down into specifics, if we have a base topic that covers numerous sub-ideas, another topic isn't needed. You agreed to how things are set up, and I see absolutely zero reason as to why we need new topics for a very specific example of a broad topic that's already popular and constantly posted in.

    If anything, it's more annoying seeing that these threads are not only opened, but constantly posted in, even after an original thread link is given. If that's the case, why continue posting? I even see some people say "Well, this is going to get locked soon, but I'll just throw my two cents in." Why? That's the biggest "I'm going to be spammy." red flag I've ever seen.

    The safest thing to do: search. If people really take the time to open up threads without searching and manage to post their thoughts and opinions, then there is no way that they are lazy enough to NOT search. If you still don't feel like your searching got you anywhere, it's safe to say that it probably hasn't been created. Or, you could always PM a mod and they could help you search, as well. It's worked for me in the past.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @doubleonothing I absolutely agree we should not have duplicate threads, it would be pointless, but why allow it in the first place. It's currently not an easy task to find a simple subject without wasting a ton of time on this site to do so. Some people have an idea and want ot talk about it, so they visit the site and want to engage in a conversation, no matter who's thread, yet using that lame Google search isn't the most convenient feature on this site. So that's what I'm asking for a resolution, the problem has already been established.

    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Here's where the "confusion" sets in for you. I will state once again, I'm not asking to keep all the multitude of duplicates on this site, for all users to do what they want and overrun this site with a bunch of unused threads with the same content as another. If you read what I wrote above, I explained the actual issue.

    Let's break it down again...

    I'm asking for two things.
    1. Users comment and request a change for the better, I'm looking for a resolution to this madness.
    2. A change be made by whoever runs this site.

    What does this mean? (For the people confused at this point)
    The "madness" is referring to the way this site is setup to waste so much time.

    Let's give an example...

    BEGIN EXAMPLE:
    Hey, I have a great idea, I'd like to go visit that Bond forum I like, haven't been in awhile, (types mi6community.com, clicks Discussions). Hmmm, I want ot post my idea to talk with the community, let see is that already exists. Types in the search bar on the site (provided by Google) and oh I don't see it here, ok great!

    (He processed to create a new thread, a title, wording, links, and rechecking to check details. Ok, now post!) I can't wait to come back and see how it's going.. (Hours later)
    Ok, login, -- "We already have a thread for this, here's the link." -- WTH??
    Ok, Ok, let's see, (clicks link), sure it's somewhat similar, yet nobody have been to this old post in months, why bother, I have an alternative idea with it anyways. So I proceed to politely disagree with the person suggesting the link and give reasonable explanation. Then I ask a friendly question about the thread to get it rolling. (Hours later he checks back) Oh great I see some comments that I feel I need to give a response to, yet, it's now closed. IT'S CLOSED.
    (Anger sharks are released, a resolution is not met, admin thinks they've taught a good lesson)

    Now the person who is upset at the whole process, just doesn't know where to vent and is considering to just never go back to that forum, then thinks how much he does enjoy the community, yet not the setup of the site. Then he wonders how many others have been upset over this same fact, and recalls a few and finds even more with ease.
    I see several people upset at admins, yet I know that I'm not directly upset at any admin, um, well sure possibly a little for the sarcastic remarks, but that's irrelevant to this issue. The issue is with the site not being user-friendly enough.

    So what's the next step I wonder, well that would be to take some type of action.
    Ahh, I know, to adequately explain this issue in hopes to bring together enough people to show support in making some changes for the appropriate admins to see.

    END OF EXAMPLE.

    If theres a lack of support it's only because most users when upset at this fact don't bother to stay around to explain it. If it wasn't for me having a background in programming and design, I wouldn't have even bothered to care, just moved on.


    @Creasy47 When addressing this issue using the phrase "common sense" about using a Google search is getting old and is obviously an outdated function for this website, I'm asking for some better support than a link to google search embeded in the site.

    ONE MORE THING, AGAIN.
    Some new functionality needs established on this site that shows you the current forums as you type to ensure the slightest possibility of a duplicate thread.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    I personally don't see the difficulty in this matter. After the last change the search function is work very well, it takes only a few seconds to know if there is a similar thread.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I find the site easy to navigate and use, and it isn't hard to look for threads already in existence with the new search function. This whole issue is quite overdramatized to Shakespearean proportions, and over such a simple aspect of the site.

    By the way, @jolearon, if you would have bothered to look over in the right corner of the MI6 forum home page under the category 'MI6 Headlines and Feedback" you would have found a thread called "Feedback and Suggestions" where you could have posted these "frustrations", making this thread another duplicate.

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/61/feedback-and-suggestions/p1
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    So, to show a visual. Here we go.

    Searching for the tread in question, one of many in the past that I have run into this issue before, among many others.

    Searching for "worst movie of 2013" - Below are the search results.
    10gyc7t.jpg
    If your answer to this problem is to just keep searching though all the pages, then you're missing the point to what a resolution to a problem is, who has time to sit and search page after page after page.

    "So, clearly it's not there, so I make this thread"
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/6755/worst-movies-of-all-time-whats-the-worst

    Then I was suggested this thread as you'll see in the post above, then it was closed.
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1601/z-is-for-sleep-your-worst-movie-ever/

    (TO BE CLEAR AGAIN! - ISSUE IS NOT THAT IT WAS CLOSED, BUT THAT IT WAS ABLE TO BE POSTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!)

    So, if you can read, you'll see this isn't a matter of "common sense", I guess you yourself would must need common sense to understand what I'm suggesting. In fact, if this statement doesn't ignite some change within this site, I will be convinced that this issue is way over your heads.

    You'll have to forgive me for being on the offensive side, I didn't care for the derogatory remarks toward getting a solution to a problem.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @Murdock is there some other search bar I'm missing?? We are talking about the "Google: Custom Search" search bar?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Nope you have the new bar. You just have to play around with different keywords I guess.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @Murdock Right and how many average users are going to want and not only search to ensure its an original idea, but then after not finding it on the first or second pages, then research again for another search before posting a simple idea, my problem is that this a waste of people's time. Needs to be another way to search as your posting a new thread, just a resolution for all the time being wasted on researching old threads.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    I don't mind taking time to do through searches. I have all the time in the world. ;)
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @Murdock Sure that may be the case for some, and possibly a large amount of regulars on this site, but as for being user-friendly for the general public, it's lacking.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I do think the thread closing can be way too harsh at times, sometimes it seems like threads get closed because of some obscure link to another thread, not because it's a duplicate.

    Although to be fair, the mods have reopened threads that were unfairly closed in the past and the search bar is much, much better now.

    However, if you're an admin you needn't worry about your threads being closed.

    http://mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4072/35-second-preview-of-skyfall-pre-titles-sequence/p2#Item_56

    http://mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/4069/skyfall-official-clip-thread#Item_11

    This really pissed me off at the time. So many threads close for being duplicates but if MI6 does it then their thread gets to stay? Blatant hypocrisy.
  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @thelivingroyale I feel your pain, thanks for sharing.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Considering @MI6 hardly ever even posts, we really are continuing to pick at the insignificant, aren't we?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited April 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I wouldn't say it's insignificant. This thread is about threads being unfairly closed so I pointed out that the constant closing (which was justified in this case with the worst movies, but isn't always) is also hypocritical since an admin made a thread that was much more of a duplicate than other closed threads.

    So because @MI6 hardly ever posts then they should be let off? Why? Lots of members with lower post counts have had threads closed. But they don't run the site so they're not allowed to break the rules.

    Also, lots of people (including mods) continued posting in that thread even after I pointed out it's a duplicate, and that's spam apparently.

    I don't mind the layout. I'm only a member on two forums including this one (and I only joined the other one about a week ago) so I never really had any confusion navigating the site because I wasn't used to "traditional" forum layouts. But since this involved duplicate threads, I just thought I'd share something which I reckon is pretty relevant to this topic.
  • Bradford4Bradford4 Banned
    Posts: 152
    This site is ridiculously micromanaged by the army of moderators. The whole forum needs a tuneup, or a simpler layout. Brady, you have no problem navigating the forums, because you're here 24/7. Some of us have lives.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    @Bradford, that argument is completely invalid. Not just trying to defend everyone, but i need to say, all of us have lives here, like me, you, thelivingroyale, and many others. Some of us of course, has less work to do than others, however we still have a life. Brady just posts here more than the others, because he is more experienced about Bond, about what to comment (I'm not saying that the others don't, but you got my point, i know).
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Just when things were getting peaceful around here again... 8-|
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

    By the way, @jolearon, if you would have bothered to look over in the right corner of the MI6 forum home page under the category 'MI6 Headlines and Feedback" you would have found a thread called "Feedback and Suggestions" where you could have posted these "frustrations", making this thread another duplicate.

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/61/feedback-and-suggestions/p1

    This is true, and actually I did consider closing this thread for that very reason, but I also thought that this would have only exacerbated problems and that this thread might actually be slightly more specific. A good example of where we don't close everything.

    @jolearon, I'm going to put this to the admins, but I suspect that the site's functionality is fairly well locked in. I could be wrong, but the truth is I don't know. All I can do is ask. But prepare yourself, because it may not change anytime soon.

    Veterans of the old site will remember the promised "update" that would include a better search function never materialising and it became something of a running joke over the years.

    Whilst I would like to see the forum adapt to be the best it can be for its community of users, it might be a case of the users just having to adapt to the existing functionality of the site. We had to put up with the limitations of the last site for years. When the update did happen (this site) many regular users were so incensed by the change in format, they left.

    Anyway, I'll ask. Can't say fairer than that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Thank you, @doubleonothing. That's fair.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    Bradford4 wrote:
    This site is ridiculously micromanaged by the army of moderators. The whole forum needs a tuneup, or a simpler layout. Brady, you have no problem navigating the forums, because you're here 24/7. Some of us have lives.

    Yup, we just love to micromanage. Gives us a real kick. And considering we don't have lives of our own, it gives us something to do. Between marching on parade that is.
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    edited April 2013 Posts: 2,635
    doubleonothing wrote:
    Yup, we just love to micromanage. Gives us a real kick. And considering we don't have lives of our own, it gives us something to do. Between marching on parade that is.

    Seriously, I must have been a dumb to not realize that you are a mod too.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    Seriously, I must have been a dumb to not realize that you are a mod too.

    Don't worry. I think there were quite a few people who didn't realise it either. But the big MI6 on the avatar should be a big help. ;-)
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    I posted a thread recently, did a search on it, came up with no results, and IMMEDIATELY 'we've already done this, etc.' IMO the search function is poor. And there are way too many people here who make it their sole reason for living, to scream at someone for a dupe thread. Manners are long since gone.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles Moderator
    Posts: 864
    @=bg= at least there is a search function here. Last site the search function couldn't even return searches on your own username without turning up zero results.

    That site lasted many years and members were quite happy to search as best they could and didn't spit the dummy if their thread was closed. I'm not sure why we can't do that here, but I've put it to the admins now, so lets just wait and see.
This discussion has been closed.