A question to those who care not for Brosnan's Bond

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best.
    Michelle Yeoh is no small part of that IMO.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best.
    Michelle Yeoh is no small part of that IMO.

    Michelle is amazing. She amazes me with her insane stunts.

  • Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best. I was always under the impression that people thought GE was the best, TND and TWINE were okay, and DAD was trash.

    That's the general opinion, but who's saying that the general opinion always has to count? I personally can't see all the hate for TND and TWINE, while I have some gripes with GE no one else seems to see.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    @ElliotCarver - There's plenty of people who dislike GE. There are a few quibbles, with GE; some of the action scenes need trimming, while Boris gets far too much screentime, especially for such an annoying and superfluous character.

    I think that people like TND, is because it's less "pretentious" than the other Brosnan's Bond's, and it's a redoing of YOLT and Spy plots, but with a modern, and innovative, twist.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited December 2012 Posts: 2,721
    I bet everything has been covered in this thread but I don't love a single Brosnan film. I love at least three Connery, one Lazenby, two Moore, two Dalton and two Craig films but Brosnan is too inconsistent - DAD was awful - immediately disliked that film. I enjoyed GE when it first came out and I thought TND was pretty good. As time
    has gone I've reversed my affection for those first Brosnan efforts so I like TND more than GE but I can't be bothered with the next two that much and even at the time I thought TWINE was ok and nothing more. In fact TWINE is a perfect example of Brosnan's career. Some good moments but also some dreadful ones - also the major problem with Moore's tenure as well. I think by Brosnan's era I had long since immersed myself in 007 to such an extent that I felt they were going backwards to the ridiculousness of Moonraker days. I could see Brosnan doing OP or Moore doing DAD - quite interchangeable. Overall I was thankful Bond was back at all with GE when it came out, but although some people in 87 thought Dalton was a second choice to Brosnan - by 95 for me personally Brosnan was a second choice to Dalton. I think I was always waiting for Brosnan to do a definitive Bond for his era - Connery had GF, Moore TSWLM, Dalton LTK, Craig probably SF (although at present I still love CR) but what is Brosnan's? GE? If so - that's pretty underwhelming. Although I have said before and will again - I don't hate Brosnan's films and I do thank him for keeping the franchise going through the 90s.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 12,837
    TND is like YOLT or TSWLM: Just a big, fun Bond film. But it has the added bonus of an idea that's fairly relevant even today.
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best. I was always under the impression that people thought GE was the best, TND and TWINE were okay, and DAD was trash.

    I think GE was brilliant and Brosnans best, TND was good (if a bit generic), TWINE was great and DAD was terrible.
  • TND is like YOLT or TSWLM: Just a big, fun Bond film. But it has the added bonus of an idea that's fairly relevant even today.
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best. I was always under the impression that people thought GE was the best, TND and TWINE were okay, and DAD was trash.

    I think GE was brilliant and Brosnans best, TND was good (if a bit generic), TWINE was great and DAD was terrible.

    Having recently watched GE for the first time in years I found that it didn't wear as well as I thought. I think that people who really like GE do so for two main reasons: the first is that it was our first look at Brosnan so there's sentimental value, the other is that it's a very "classic" and classy Bond film, the last that recalls some of the elements of the older films.

    However, there are some elements that a lot of people wouldn't like - the injection of silly humour (Boris), an inconsistent Brosnan (in some scenes he tries to play a hard Bond, in others he seems to be playing Remington Steele), and deviations from formula elements (BMW instead of a new Aston Martin, the comic Jack Wade instead of Felix, strange score by Serra).

    While TND is nothing special in my mind it's at least the most consistent of all the Brosnan films, so I think that makes it look better. There's nothing too bad in it so there's less to gripe about. It's not a stellar Bond film but at least it's entertaining.

  • The BMW doesn't bother me. I don't think Bond always needs to drive an Aston (and the DB5 was in GE anyway), the Lotus is my favourite Bond car.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    Creasy47 wrote:
    It isn't because GE is my favorite, but it's pretty interesting seeing people rate TND as Brosnan's best. I was always under the impression that people thought GE was the best, TND and TWINE were okay, and DAD was trash.

    That's the general opinion, but who's saying that the general opinion always has to count? I personally can't see all the hate for TND and TWINE, while I have some gripes with GE no one else seems to see.

    It doesn't, and that's why I love this site and the opinions throughout it: everyone thinks differently on the matter, and it's not the same drilled-into-your-head opinion I see in other reviews throughout the web.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    Creasy47 wrote:
    that's why I love this site and the opinions throughout it: everyone thinks differently on the matter, and it's not the same drilled-into-your-head opinion I see in other reviews throughout the web.
    Yeah, I get a real kick out of all the different opinions, and some have even made me re-examine my own & change some of them a bit.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    @chrisisall, same here. Take OHMSS: a big fan favorite on the forums. I was never too crazy about it, but when I read reviews about what everyone loved about the film, I re-examined my opinion on it and started to appreciate it much more.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    @Creasy47, yep, I hadn't given OP a second look since '83, but a lot of positivity about it here made me get a used DVD this year, and wow, an entertaining little flick!
  • chrisisall wrote:
    @Creasy47, yep, I hadn't given OP a second look since '83, but a lot of positivity about it here made me get a used DVD this year, and wow, an entertaining little flick!

    Same here. I never bothered much with OP but then I came on here and so many liked it, I decided to give it a rewatch. I loved it, it's one of my favourites now.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,668
    "Had the Connery era had all the world markets like China, Russia,The Eastern Block, and India"

    YOLT was shown in India.....dunno bout the others though.

    Brosnan era imo :

    GE (good but I find DN/FRWL/TB/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD much better)
    TND (McD Bond , even LTK felt more Bond-like)
    TWINE (only things I liked were theme song and Qs final....a chore to watch)
    DAD (decent 1st half I spose)

    I prefer Moore's era even though it sins in the script dept too ;)

    I liked Moore a lot mo(o)re even though he was never really a killer.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    I think GE was brilliant and Brosnans best, TND was good (if a bit generic), TWINE was great and DAD was terrible.
    And I'm at a point now where I can actually squeeze quite a bit of enjoyment out of DAD too.

    On another thread Brosnan's Bond has (again) been getting bashed big time. He's too skinny, he's too fat, his accent is too American, he's too pretty, his pain face is distracting, he shoots machine guns too frequently, he has no chemistry with the ladies, he's a pastiche Bond, he's a vampire, he runs funny, he can't fight... my God, how did this colossal LOSER ever get to play Bond FOUR times in multi-million dollar films??? What's more, WHY were they HITS????

    Holy moley, you'd think the man was a baby killer or something the way the hate just flows and flows for him. :O
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 3,494
    chrisisall wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    The intention was never to pitch Broz as the acting saviour of the franchise, he was installed as a good looking action hero who could deliver an almost nostalgic amalgamation of traits rather than a reinvention of character.
    I've never heard it put better than that, bravo! =D>

    Normally I don't revisit a thread after some time has passed, but WOW, I missed this one. Well done indeed @RC7. It's the perfect description of what EON appeared to be exactly after. This is why, although I have some issues with Brosnan's actual performances from time to time, I refuse to entirely blame him for what happened after 1997. As others have stated, we don't know what kind of input he had or didn't have, so one is forced to judge by the product as the only evidence short of Pierce commenting on it. And he's commented on plenty but this question I've yet to see answered. Can someone point the way if I've missed something?

    Some have conjectured that Craig couldn't have done any more with these films as far as the scripts and direction, but I'm not so sure about that. I think he would have declined the role as defined here entirely to be truthful, and if not, he would have done exactly what he did in accepting in 2005, insisted on a certain amount of creative control as far as playing the character and what kind of scripts he was getting. He didn't initially seem as anxious as Brosnan was to be Bond, like Dalton he was looking at the right circumstances in which he would take the role and had a vision of what he wanted besides.

  • Posts: 2,400
    I grew up. As a kid I adored Brosnan. As I got older and saw all the movies, he started wearing thin on me. I really just over time began to see Brosnan as a weak actor and feeble imitator of Connery/Moore. The quality of his films did not help.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    I grew up.

    Sorry. :))
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote:
    Was it an instant dislike based on a perceived tonal change from Dalton's movies?
    Was it a reconsideration later after his movies had been around a while?
    Is it that you just don't like Brosnan as an actor?

    I'm sincerely curious, because he used to be my favourite Bond actor, however since I've read the Fleming novels & re-discovered Dalton's work, Brosnan has moved down a notch for me, but he's still in 3 of my top 10 Bond movies...

    Was it Die Another Day? Is that what did it? ;)

    I didn't have anything against Brosnan. I thought, primarily, he was a victim of bad scripts and amateur hour at EON (which is still going on today).



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2013 Posts: 17,720
    Perdogg wrote:
    I didn't have anything against Brosnan. I thought, primarily, he was a victim of bad scripts and amateur hour at EON (which is still going on today).
    See, I don't GET this. A victim? Sure, he didn't get to do a lot of 'meaty' Bond like Tim did, or like Dan's doing, but his Bonds were hugely entertaining like Connery's TB & YOLT. And the Flemingesque moments in those Brosnan moments shined!
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    I didn't have anything against Brosnan. I thought, primarily, he was a victim of bad scripts and amateur hour at EON (which is still going on today).
    See, I don't GET this. A victim? Sure, he didn't get to do a lot of 'meaty' Bond like Tim did, or like Dan's doing, but his Bonds were hugely entertaining like Connery's TB & YOLT. And the Flemingesque moments in those Brosnan moments shined!

    Actually when he followed Wai Lin like a puppy and when he wipes Elecktra's tears on tv monitor were embarrassing. Brosnan gets paid to do what he is told, therefore it wasn't his fault.

    I was under the impression in Everything or Nothing that he and Rosamund Pike mocked DAD. EON cannot blame anyone but themselves for that. I was always felt that TND and TWINE had their moments but he was dealt a poor hand. Both movies seem to have the pretense of an original Bond, but both fell victim to formulistic Hollywood.

    He should not feel jealous of DC.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    Perdogg wrote:
    Actually when he followed Wai Lin like a puppy
    I would, wouldn't YOU??? She was COOL!!!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    chrisisall wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Actually when he followed Wai Lin like a puppy
    I would, wouldn't YOU??? She was COOL!!!

    The level of debate in this thread is very deep.
  • Posts: 686
    Dragonpol wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Actually when he followed Wai Lin like a puppy
    I would, wouldn't YOU??? She was COOL!!!

    The level of debate in this thread is very deep.

    BBC America was showing TND and they cut out the scene between Bond and the Danish Instructor. What is the deal? [..]
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Actually when he followed Wai Lin like a puppy
    I would, wouldn't YOU??? She was COOL!!!

    The level of debate in this thread is very deep.

    BBC America was showing TND and they cut out the scene between Bond and the Danish Instructor. What is the deal? [..]

    YOLT was always heavily cut for years on ITV here in the UK. TV destroys good Bond films!
  • Posts: 7,653
    I still find the Brosnan entertaining enough, all 007 movies have their weak moments and there is not one performer that has NO weak moment.

    For me EON failed in giving Brosnan a toned down movie like RM got his FYEO, especially after delivering 4 BO hits that made 007 once more cinema gold.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    SaintMark wrote:
    I still find the Brosnan entertaining enough, all 007 movies have their weak moments and there is not one performer that has NO weak moment.

    Thank you sir! =D>
  • I'm eagerly awaiting the next actor's casting, the ensuing backlash against Craig, and the emergence of a multitude heretofore silent individuals who never liked Casino Royale and Skyfall and Craig in the first place.

    I'm confident as well that the regard for GoldenEye (and Brosnan as a whole) will increase once more, although presumably not to the heights that it reached during Brosnan's era. I image that Casino Royale and Skyfall especially will have a similar arc to GoldenEye in terms of fan reaction.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,720
    If the next actor is especially right for the role & gets a good script, the backlash will be precisely what Brosnan is getting, I agree.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,989
    I'm eagerly awaiting the next actor's casting, the ensuing backlash against Craig, and the emergence of a multitude heretofore silent individuals who never liked Casino Royale and Skyfall and Craig in the first place.

    I'm confident as well that the regard for GoldenEye (and Brosnan as a whole) will increase once more, although presumably not to the heights that it reached during Brosnan's era. I image that Casino Royale and Skyfall especially will have a similar arc to GoldenEye in terms of fan reaction.

    Well said, sire. My thoughts exactly. Brosnan was a very popular Bond at the time. Many Bond fans seem to have forgotten this fact with the advent of the Bond films. These things seem to go round in cycles.
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