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The Score of Skyfall

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,557
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I think....Michael Giacchino knows perfectly how to bring certain cultural sounds in his music. Take these themes for example. I'd say: Wunderful.
    And I say zzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Sorry, but I found there to be nothing exciting about Giacchino's score.

    I disagree. The man understands music. His scores have never let me down. I would be thrilled if they announced him for Bond.
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    And, I say it again, I want David Arnold OFF the Bond projects now. Time for new blood.
    Well, thank the stars you aren't making the big decisions about the films. If David Arnold is replaced, it will be because EON feel there is a better candidate available. But if Arnold is the best candidate, he will be retained. You're too emotionally-invested in the choice of composer to be able to make the right choice - if Arnold produced a recording of a score that John Barry would have been proud of, you would probably still have him removed.

    This I agree with. Some people are so blinded by an irrational hatred towards Arnold, they fail to recognise that even for the Bond films he occasionally put(s) out a fairly decent score.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Some people?

    I'd say a lot of them. And I daresay that if they got their way, not a few of those people would criticise Arnold's successor. For some people, John Barry is the only man who can compose a Bond score. Unfortunately, he can't do that anymore.

    David Arnold isn't the greatest composer in the franchise history - but he certainly isn't the worst (at times, Martin Hamlisch's THE SPY WHO LOVED ME score sounds like it belongs in a porno). He might over-score at times, and he might be too quick to use the James Bond theme, but he does have some fine work, particularly in QUANTUM OF SOLACE; I think Inside Man is one of his best tracks, and it is certainly something I would welcome back to the series. I think it has the same quality as Barry's 007 Theme (last used in the Amazon chase in MOONRAKER). Likewise, I think Time To Get Out (if only for the use of the Aston Martin's engine as an instrument) and Pursuit at Port-au-Prince are great. I think far too many people sell David Arnold short, probably because of his DIE ANOTHER DAY score.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    at times, Martin Hamlisch's THE SPY WHO LOVED ME score sounds like it belongs in a porno

    Yet, that's the only Bond score that got an Oscar nomination...

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    As The Shark will no doubt tell you, the Oscars mean about as much as the microphone at a Britney Spears concert - they just don't matter.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,619
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    As The Shark will no doubt tell you, the Oscars mean about as much as the microphone at a Britney Spears concert - they just don't matter.

    No doubt, a lot of people believe the Oscars don't matter at all, but on the other hand there are lot of people who think the Oscars do matter.

    Also, the nominees for Best Score are selected by people who know a lot more about music than me and you (and probably everyone else on this forum). Sure, one can criticize their decisions but if TSWLM gets a Best Score nomination, it means it has a decent score.

    By the way, I really don't care what The Shark thinks about the Oscars.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    As The Shark will no doubt tell you, the Oscars mean about as much as the microphone at a Britney Spears concert - they just don't matter.

    So why did you make this post :
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    Okay, THUNDERBALL was made in 1965. The nominees for Best Costume Design at the 38th Academy Awards included Stanley Kramer's SHIP OF FOOLS, a film set in the then-current time period. THUNDERBALL, on the other hand, did not receive a nomination. Therefore, we can infer that when it comes to fashion trends in particular, SHIP OF FOOLS is a betetr representation of 1965 than THUNDERBALL.

    If the Oscars don't matter, why did you make the argument of 'Ship of fools' getting a nomination so therefor it is better than TB in terms of costume design ?



  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Honestly? I'm a little impressed that you bothered to dig that up.

    However, The Shark has since convinced me to change my mind. Yes, it can happen, believe it or not. You just have to make a compelling case.
  • MartinBondMartinBond Trying not to muck it up again
    Posts: 858
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    I hope in SkyFall that Bond will walk through an airport with the Bond theme playing full blast.

    You and I should talk sometime :D
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    David Arnold isn't the greatest composer in the franchise history - but he certainly isn't the worst (at times, Martin Hamlisch's THE SPY WHO LOVED ME score sounds like it belongs in a porno).

    I think you exactly say what bothers me so much about David Arnold. Indeed, he isn't the worst, but he is also not the best. Bond needs the best. Basta. And in my opinion composers like Alexandre Desplat and John Powell (which most people are not quoting) and Michael Giacchino have a way more better CV than David Arnold. For 'Skyfall' we should not just settle for the average OK composer. No, we need potential Oscar stuff.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I think....Michael Giacchino knows perfectly how to bring certain cultural sounds in his music. Take these themes for example. I'd say: Wunderful.

    <youtube>
    <youtube>

    This is.....India 2011 AD completely. And I adore these tracks. IMO David Arnold keeps faltering in composing easy-to-listen tunes that represent certain countries on this planet.

    Then there is this great pumping Budapest opener. The tune is very basic, but it builds up wunderfully. Very Bond-ish. The helicopter shots of the city reminded me of the Lago di Garda shots from QOS:

    <youtube>

    I also want to mention -again- two other composers that are in my opinion contenders to take over from David Arnold. John Powell did some great work for movies like 'Paycheck' and 'The Bourne Supremacy'. Ab-so-lu-te-ly thrilling, perfect build up and you can hum the themes with your own voice:

    <youtube>
    <youtube>

    If you listen to the theme of 'Paycheck', you can actually hear some Bond tunes in it.

    Alexandre Desplat is also one of my favourites to do a Bond score. His work on 'The Ghost Writer' was full of suspense. A bit like the old espionage days in FRWL:

    <youtube>

    So, I think I would be happy if one of the above composers would be composing 'Skyfall'. And, I say it again, I want David Arnold OFF the Bond projects now. Time for new blood.

    The above tracks are not just OK I think. I think they are perfect for action-espionage-kind of movies.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    bring back a-ha.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    I think the question is do you want a score that is made up of electronic instruments or not
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2011/dec/11/john-barry-obituary-david-arnold

    the man we don't want talking about the man we do want.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited December 2011 Posts: 348
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    <youtube>

    Bloody hell, that was boring. Even Hans Zimmer's MI:2 score had some personality and colour.

    There's nothing wrong with electronics in itself. Just look at Vangelis, Daft Punk or John Carpenter. It's what you do with them that counts. If you don't know how to use a symphony orchestra (like Giacchino), then it's no better than annoying techno beats.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Getafix wrote:
    bring back a-ha.

    you are funny. :)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Shark wrote:
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    <youtube>

    Bloody hell, that was boring. Even Hans Zimmer's MI:2 score had some personality and colour.

    There's nothing wrong with electronics in itself. Just look at Vangelis, Daft Punk or John Carpenter. It's what you do with them that counts. If you don't know how to use a symphony orchestra (like Giacchino), then it's no better than annoying techno beats.

    I also mentioned two other composers; Desplat and Powell.

    By the way, I think Giacchino did a perfect rendition of Lalo Shifrin's M:I-theme. Completely orchestral and devoid of any electronic sounds. Then again.....the different versions of original themes, like the M:I-theme and the James Bond-theme, always stay good because of their creators. So if you say Giacchino is boring like hell, you couldddd say the same about Arnold's versions of the Bond-theme.

  • SharkShark Banned
    edited December 2011 Posts: 348
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    By the way, I think Giacchino did a perfect rendition of Lalo Shifrin's M:I-theme. Completely orchestral and devoid of any electronic sounds.

    ... and? As I said, just because it's not using electronics, that doesn't mean it's any good. Just look at Monty Norman's score for DR. NO. Give me Tangerine Dream's THIEF over that any day.

    I'm sure if Schifrin was hired to score a MISSION IMPOSSIBLE flick, he'd use electronics. Look at the three RUSH HOUR movies.
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    So if you say Giacchino is boring like hell, you couldddd say the same about Arnold's versions of the Bond-theme.

    I already do. ;)
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Shark wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with electronics in itself. Just look at Vangelis, Daft Punk or John Carpenter. It's what you do with them that counts. If you don't know how to use a symphony orchestra (like Giacchino), then it's no better than annoying techno beats.
    Exactly. Just look at The David Arnold James Bond Project, where he re-did the OHMSS theme with the Propellerheads:


  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I also want to mention -again- two other composers that are in my opinion contenders to take over from David Arnold. John Powell did some great work for movies like 'Paycheck' and 'The Bourne Supremacy'. Ab-so-lu-te-ly thrilling, perfect build up and you can hum the themes with your own voice:

    <youtube>
    <youtube>

    If you listen to the theme of 'Paycheck', you can actually hear some Bond tunes in it.

    If one says John Powell is a bad composer, than he/she is nuts. The above tracks are simply awesome. They add suspense and a certain hunting climax to the movies. I adore these tracks and I find it better than many of Arnold's 'suspense tracks'. That's why I'd love to see John Powell working on ' Skyfall'.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    If one says John Powell is a bad composer, than he/she is nuts. The above tracks are simply awesome. They add suspense and a certain hunting climax to the movies. I adore these tracks and I find it better than many of Arnold's 'suspense tracks'. That's why I'd love to see John Powell working on ' Skyfall'.
    A score is much more than just tracks. If you want just good tracks you don´t need a composer but someone who assembles songs or tunes to fit to the film. Which can be awesome too. But if you want a score you need good tracks that work on their own and in their completeness. Both Powell and Giacchino have cool tracks, and they work nicely with their themes, but they still sound boring to me.

    Plus, I don´t think Arnold makes any suspense tracks, he basically makes action tracks ;) . At least that´s what´s listenable.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    For all the raving about Giacchino's GHOST PROTOCOL score, I'm looking at a massive over-use of the Mission: Impossible theme. There are twenty-two tracks on the film's official soundtrack, and no less than fourteen of them contain Lalo Schifrin's theme. Of these fourteen tracks, nine sequential tracks contain the theme. It is used in some way, shape or form from when Hunt receives his mission briefing in Russia ("In Russia, Phone Dials You") until he re-enters the hotel in Dubai following his high-wire work ("The Express Elevator"). That's at least a third of the film, and while Giacchino doesn't use the theme exclusively here, the fact that he does it in the first place makes David Arnold look tame by comparison.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,981
    I saw Ghost Protocal and loved it. The MI theme is used throughout the film but not always, or mainly, in an overt manner. That theme is part of the identity of the series, asis the Bond theme. Most of us have seen what adding Barry's music to scenes from the non-cannon Never Say Never Again do for those scenes. It takes them from generic action film starring Sean Connery to Bond. I am a Giacchino fan and think if given a chance he would produce an incredible score. Hmmm that was an unintentional pun ;)

  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    For all the raving about Giacchino's GHOST PROTOCOL score, I'm looking at a massive over-use of the Mission: Impossible theme. There are twenty-two tracks on the film's official soundtrack, and no less than fourteen of them contain Lalo Schifrin's theme. Of these fourteen tracks, nine sequential tracks contain the theme. It is used in some way, shape or form from when Hunt receives his mission briefing in Russia ("In Russia, Phone Dials You") until he re-enters the hotel in Dubai following his high-wire work ("The Express Elevator"). That's at least a third of the film, and while Giacchino doesn't use the theme exclusively here, the fact that he does it in the first place makes David Arnold look tame by comparison.

    Yes but all of Giacchino's scores contain a common theme. Most of SUPER 8, and especially the scenes about the boy's mother contain very similar notes, but it beautiful and it helps connect the story. In STAR TREK (2009) however, Giacchino created a new sound for the new series. Most of its soundtrack also contains similar notes, but it flows perfectly. In THE INCREDIBLES, he uses the same key elements, and often times the sames notes either sped up or slowed down depending on the effect it makes. His last four films are very varied. UNLIKE ARNOLD, his soundtracks don't all sound like they could be interchangeable.

    Barry, citing YOLT, also used a similar theme throughout the film. Most of the early Bond films have their own unique sounds, and it easy to pick what movie they're from. Same with Giacchino's work; sadly not for Arnold.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,169
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    I'd say a lot of them. And I daresay that if they got their way, not a few of those people would criticise Arnold's successor. For some people, John Barry is the only man who can compose a Bond score.

    Every single one of Arnold's scores, beat Barry's soundtrack for OP hands down, IMO!
    For OP, Barry basically only used one theme during the actionscenes: The James Bond theme.

    Unlike others, I have total faith in EON. If they think Arnold is the right man for SF, then so be it. If not, it's because they've found someone who they believe can do a more suited job for the task at hand.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,981
    Didn't
    Zekidk wrote:
    shadowonthesun wrote:
    I'd say a lot of them. And I daresay that if they got their way, not a few of those people would criticise Arnold's successor. For some people, John Barry is the only man who can compose a Bond score.

    Every single one of Arnold's scores, beat Barry's soundtrack for OP hands down, IMO!
    For OP, Barry basically only used one theme during the actionscenes: The James Bond theme.

    Unlike others, I have total faith in EON. If they think Arnold is the right man for SF, then so be it. If not, it's because they've found someone who they believe can do a more suited job for the task at hand.

    Didn't EON pick Bill Conti? Ouch! I watched FYEO the other night and as much as I love what he did for Rocky, his score for Bond was painful. Not since Ladyhawke has a film screamed so loudly to be rescored.
  • IcebreakerIcebreaker
    Posts: 26
    The only Bond composer that I think did a below average job was Michael Kamen, IMO. I quite like the funky scores for LALD, TSWLM, and FYEO. I even like Eric Serra's cold score for GE. Yes, they sound very dated and ventured into places Barry would not have dared to go, but that is what made them special to me IMO.

    One composer who I always felt would have done an unusual but interesting Bond score is Ryhuichi Sakamoto. This track from Femme Fatale has so much sophistication to it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WgTZk7lMIQ

    As for Arnold, he is a safe composer. His TND and QoS scores are great stuff, IMO. The ones in between I have little to say about. I wouldn't mind seeing him return, but I'd be more interested in a new composer.

    Someone mentioned Lalo Schiffrin, he should have done a Bond score back in the 70s or 80s. Always wondered why Tom Cruise never got him to score any of the M:I movies (Danny Elfman got the first job instead).
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,169
    Icebreaker wrote:
    Someone mentioned Lalo Schiffrin, he should have done a Bond score back in the 70s or 80s. Always wondered why Tom Cruise never got him to score any of the M:I movies (Danny Elfman got the first job instead).

    Maybe because he was pushing 70 when the first M:I movie was made in '96? Or maybe because he hasn't scored anything decent since the 80's?
  • IcebreakerIcebreaker
    edited December 2011 Posts: 26
    Lalo Schifrin composed the scores for the acclaimed Argentine film Tango and the Rush Hour films (which I remember being effective scores), so the pushing 70 bit is no excuse, neither is the "anything decent since the 80's" bit.

    Another composer I would have wanted to score a crazy Bond score: Ennio Moriconne in the 1960s. His score for Danger: Diabolik is the closest to it.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Alright, I've decided it's time to stop commenting on suggestions and start making them. My sister gave me the SENNA documentary for Christmas, and Antonio Pinto provided a phenomenal score for it:





    He also did CITY OF GOD and LORD OF WAR
  • karatemanchan37karatemanchan37
    Posts: 584
    You know, why not just pair two composers together? Have Arnold compose the main action themes and remixes, and have another for the softer or tragic themes.
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