DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,028
    I can already see the Snyderbros review bombing Pat-Man when it comes out. #NotMyBatman and such BS because it’s not Ben Affleck. Same with the new Superman.
  • I can already see the Snyderbros review bombing Pat-Man when it comes out. #NotMyBatman and such BS because it’s not Ben Affleck. Same with the new Superman.

    Craig survived CraigNotBond. I'm sure Pattison will do fine.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited April 2021 Posts: 23,556
    Batfleck is my favourite movie Batman though I love Batman 89, the Dark Knight Trilogy and Adam West I also enjoy Batman Forever and Kilmer's approach had some merits.

    There could be 4 ongoing Live action Batman's and I would watch them all and I am a huge Snyder Fan.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    https://screenrant.com/batman-ben-affleck-dceu-solo-movie-campaign-trending/

    I would support this as well but with some minor requests. Keep it as standalone as possible, and let BA have as much control as possible. If it doesn’t work as cinema, let him do a graphic novel of it, with Geoff Johns. Do his Robin’s backstory as well! Zack Snyder’s Justice League sequels deserve the same.

    That's honestly a good strategy. If WB is positive these movies won't make enough to justify production and marketing costs, put them out as comic miniseries, where the risk is low and the reward is high.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,011
    I was on a plane recently and the person next to me had on Wonder Woman 1984; without sound, it looked terrible. I think it was a huge mistake to shoehorn in Chris Pine's character.

    I loved the first film and consider it DC's strongest movie. I hope the third film is stronger.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    I gave Batman '89 a watch after not seeing it in many many years, and my goodness it's good. Every scene has energy and punch and a real hook, not a second is wasted, and it absolutely powers along. Yes, by the climax Batman starts to get upstaged, but regardless I'd have to say I think this is the best Batman movie.
    Crucially it also creates a world where you believe Batman could exist. Snyder manages this as well, Nolan doesn't if you ask me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,632
    mtm wrote: »
    I gave Batman '89 a watch after not seeing it in many many years, and my goodness it's good. Every scene has energy and punch and a real hook, not a second is wasted, and it absolutely powers along. Yes, by the climax Batman starts to get upstaged, but regardless I'd have to say I think this is the best Batman movie.
    Crucially it also creates a world where you believe Batman could exist. Snyder manages this as well, Nolan doesn't if you ask me.

    Interesting. I was rather under the impression that Nolan's Batman is one of the more plausible versions.

    Regarding Batman '89, it really is a great film. Not the very best for me, but certainly among the best. It's great. I don't like the "Jack Napier" backstory for Joker, but once Nicholson is in makeup, those objections are obscured by all the greatness we get. Towards the finish, things get a bit muddled, though. But the final pose of Batman, along with Elfman's great piece of music, is pure perfection for me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2021 Posts: 15,108
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I gave Batman '89 a watch after not seeing it in many many years, and my goodness it's good. Every scene has energy and punch and a real hook, not a second is wasted, and it absolutely powers along. Yes, by the climax Batman starts to get upstaged, but regardless I'd have to say I think this is the best Batman movie.
    Crucially it also creates a world where you believe Batman could exist. Snyder manages this as well, Nolan doesn't if you ask me.

    Interesting. I was rather under the impression that Nolan's Batman is one of the more plausible versions.

    I think the more you put him in the real world the more mentally ill and dangerous he seems! :)
    I find him more plausible in a fantasy land where things like him can exist.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Regarding Batman '89, it really is a great film. Not the very best for me, but certainly among the best. It's great. I don't like the "Jack Napier" backstory for Joker, but once Nicholson is in makeup, those objections are obscured by all the greatness we get. Towards the finish, things get a bit muddled, though. But the final pose of Batman, along with Elfman's great piece of music, is pure perfection for me.

    Yes I'd forgotten how good it is. The music really is amazing, like another character- the 'descent into mystery' scene is just there because the music is so good! :)
    I'd never noticed before how it's unlike almost any other superhero movie in that the last time we see Bruce Wayne is before the climax in the Batcave where he's talking to Vicky: after that we never see the main character unmasked again.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,632
    Vicky should never have been let into the Batcave and certainly not by Alfred. 😉
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    Yes that bit is a touch underheated: her finding out about his secret doesn't really go anywhere. There's not even really any payoff to their relationship when they're at the top of the cathedral.
  • I can already see the Snyderbros review bombing Pat-Man when it comes out. #NotMyBatman and such BS because it’s not Ben Affleck. Same with the new Superman.

    I think that’s a bit of a harsh generalization. Yeah I’ve seen some Toxic Snyder fans, and I’ve seen them at their worst. But most Snyder fans (I am one of them) come across as generally decent/positive people, who seem to be excited for Pattinson’s Batman. If anything, there upset at WB for how it’s handling DC at the moment. Too many missed opportunities, too many announcements for films that don’t actually happen, and at the moment, too much negative publicity.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,028
    When I’m referring to Snyderbros, I don’t mean fans of Snyder in general, but the utterly deluded nutters that do things like review bomb Godzilla vs Kong.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2021 Posts: 15,108
    And they are the ones who basically got rewarded with this JL cut. Any parent will tell you you don’t reward naughty children! :)

    I was listening to an interesting podcast about this film: they agreed this is a superior version of the film and works on its own terms, but I think they made an interesting point in that they thought had this come out in 2017 it still would have been received badly. One year into Trump, after the bad BvS reception etc. it wouldn’t have been the film people wanted, and attitudes have shifted since. Including DC’s approach: at the time the DC films were Snyder whether you liked it or not, but since then we’ve had stuff like Shazam and Aquaman, plus the whole multiple versions of the same characters thing, which means the disappointment of this being the only version of Superman etc. isn’t so stark.
  • mtm wrote: »
    And they are the ones who basically got rewarded with this JL cut. Any parent will tell you you don’t reward naughty children! :)

    I was listening to an interesting podcast about this film: they agreed this is a superior version of the film and works on its own terms, but I think they made an interesting point in that they thought had this come out in 2017 it still would have been received badly. One year into Trump, after the bad BvS reception etc. it wouldn’t have been the film people wanted, and attitudes have shifted since. Including DC’s approach: at the time the DC films were Snyder whether you liked it or not, but since then we’ve had stuff like Shazam and Aquaman, plus the whole multiple versions of the same characters thing, which means the disappointment of this being the only version of Superman etc. isn’t so stark.

    I like to think of it more as the people who were at least positive and weren’t toxic were the ones who were awarded. As I’ve said, I’ve seen them at their most toxic, but I’ve also seen some decent people who love Zack Snyder. But as MakeShiftPython mentioned, to review Bomb other films/fire the hashtag in posts where it doesn’t belong unfortunately does other fans no favors, as is the simple nature of those kinds of things. I for one can’t understand being so insecure in what I like to where I review bomb other films, so it does make me question the sanity of some of the more Toxic Snyder fans.

    I kind of agree with those sentiments about the Snyder cut actually being released back in 2017, but for different reasons. I think nobody was going to want to sit through the entire 4 hours back in 2017. It’s funny how different I guess things are in the wake of Avengers Endgame where people sat in theatres for 3 hours, but I think 4 may have been too much for the mainstream audiences back then.

    I’ve always felt the issue with the DCEU, lies in how it was initially developed. For how much every says they should’ve done solo films before JL like Marvel, I think the issue is of an entirely different sort. I love the Snyder DC films, and I personally like Snyder as a filmmaker, just my opinion, but even I can admit his biggest flaw is being too overly ambitious at times. I’m fine with him adapting these characters for the stories that he’s trying to tell, and whether that works or not is entirely a matter of opinion, but it’s hard to expect the audience to go along for the ride when you aren’t adjusting your style for them, or making them sit through 3-4 hour films and expect them to remain satisfied along the way. In many ways, yes perhaps Snyder was the wrong man to get for the DCEU in that regard. If WB wanted the purest form of the DC Universe on film, then they should’ve hired somebody who wasn’t more interested in telling their own revisionist versions, but somebody who would’ve followed the material, and tried to be as close to the material as much as possible, at least in spirit. But as much as some people may want to pin all the failures of the DCEU on Snyder, I think it’s really WB. For everything the Ray Fisher, and Chris Terrio interviews have exposed, it’s that WB has absolutely no clue what to do with DC, and yeah they may have a hit every now and then, but in some ways I feel the DC brand has been a bit tarnished because of their incompetence, and it’s really depressing to see.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2021 Posts: 15,108
    I think the 2017 version would possibly have been more like 3 hours or so if he'd finished it. There's certainly stuff in that cut which could be trimmed out, plus the whole knightmare epilogue just wouldn't be there. Would Darkseid have featured if it had been in 2017?

    With any luck someone would persuade to lose a load of the slo-mo too and play that at the normal speed- that would make it shorter! :) For one thing, if you've chosen to show Flash's superspeed using slo-mo (which is a valid choice) then you're just confusing your storytelling to use slo-mo for everyone else too.


    I do think Endgame was too long though. I remember it cutting to that other planet where Hawkeye and Black Widow had gone to and thinking "oh God, there's another infinity stone to collect". My bum fell asleep in the cinema watching The Dark Knight too- another one far too long. I remember mentally editing out that storyline with the Wayne Enterprises employee who tries to blackmail Bruce even as I was watching it, because it has no reason to be in the movie. I think it was just there to give Morgan Freeman something to do.
    I watched that Palm Springs movie last night: it's absolutely great, but what really sold it to me was it's 90mins long :) That's all you need.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Darkseid would have been there, yes, but I assume there was originally a Steppenwolf introduction we didn't get, because the Amazons just know who he is without having fought him during the flashback.

    They could definitely have cut most if not all of the slow-mo. It enhances nothing except that one Flash scene during the Superman fight. We certainly fidn't need to see a sesame seed falling from a cheeseburger. Supposedly 10% of the movie is slow-mo, which at a 4 hour runtime equates to about 24 minutes. Cut that out, you're down to a little over 3.5 hours, which is much more reasonable for a film of this scope.

    Of all the epilogue, the only bit I'd keep is the Knightmare (with or without the Joker). The Deathstroke scene only serves to set up a Batman movie and none of the other moments don't help this movie or others, while the Knightmare at least moves the myth arc ahead a bit. Neither of the film's two Martian Manhunter scenes were necessary from anything but a fanservice perspective. Manhunter didn't once try to help a bit.

    Snyder had a vision, I'll give the man a lot of credit for that, he just wasn't the best at execution.
  • edited April 2021 Posts: 440
    I think it's also worth keeping in mind that even if the executives hadn't wanted to change course, Snyder would still have done reshoots in 2017.

    Even with skilful editing, cutting the film down to around two and a half hours would still have created a number of small holes that would need to be papered over with new scenes

    Not to mention that pretty much every blockbuster has reshoots built into the schedule, especially ones that have so many characters and plot points.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2021 Posts: 15,108
    Darkseid would have been there, yes, but I assume there was originally a Steppenwolf introduction we didn't get, because the Amazons just know who he is without having fought him during the flashback.

    They could definitely have cut most if not all of the slow-mo. It enhances nothing except that one Flash scene during the Superman fight. We certainly fidn't need to see a sesame seed falling from a cheeseburger. Supposedly 10% of the movie is slow-mo, which at a 4 hour runtime equates to about 24 minutes. Cut that out, you're down to a little over 3.5 hours, which is much more reasonable for a film of this scope.

    Of all the epilogue, the only bit I'd keep is the Knightmare (with or without the Joker). The Deathstroke scene only serves to set up a Batman movie and none of the other moments don't help this movie or others, while the Knightmare at least moves the myth arc ahead a bit. Neither of the film's two Martian Manhunter scenes were necessary from anything but a fanservice perspective. Manhunter didn't once try to help a bit.

    Snyder had a vision, I'll give the man a lot of credit for that, he just wasn't the best at execution.

    Wasn't the knightmare bit basically Snyder in 2020 saying 'this is what the sequel would have been' though? So I'm guessing it was never the plan to have that in the film he was planning to release in 2017.

    I don't really get why Manhunter was in the 2021 version- it doesn't do anything apart from just mentioning a character from the comics or setting up a sequel that everyone knows isn't happening. Or is it some sort of cynical move from Snyder to try to mobilise the fanbase to get him another big movie? I don't quite get it.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    mtm wrote: »
    Darkseid would have been there, yes, but I assume there was originally a Steppenwolf introduction we didn't get, because the Amazons just know who he is without having fought him during the flashback.

    They could definitely have cut most if not all of the slow-mo. It enhances nothing except that one Flash scene during the Superman fight. We certainly fidn't need to see a sesame seed falling from a cheeseburger. Supposedly 10% of the movie is slow-mo, which at a 4 hour runtime equates to about 24 minutes. Cut that out, you're down to a little over 3.5 hours, which is much more reasonable for a film of this scope.

    Of all the epilogue, the only bit I'd keep is the Knightmare (with or without the Joker). The Deathstroke scene only serves to set up a Batman movie and none of the other moments don't help this movie or others, while the Knightmare at least moves the myth arc ahead a bit. Neither of the film's two Martian Manhunter scenes were necessary from anything but a fanservice perspective. Manhunter didn't once try to help a bit.

    Snyder had a vision, I'll give the man a lot of credit for that, he just wasn't the best at execution.

    Wasn't the knightmare bit basically Snyder in 2020 saying 'this is what the sequel would have been' though? So I'm guessing it was never the plan to have that in the film he was planning to release in 2017.

    I don't really get why Manhunter was in the 2021 version- it doesn't do anything apart from just mentioning a character from the comics or setting up a sequel that everyone knows isn't happening. Or is it some sort of cynical move from Snyder to try to mobilise the fanbase to get him another big movie? I don't quite get it.

    That's pretty much exactly what the Knightmare was, though I imagine a form of it might have been in the original script. Certainly the Joker's overextended monologue wasn't in the cards back in 2017. Tacked on as it is, it's the only part of the epilogue that actually feels sort of necessary, had the film been released as intended and sequels commissioned.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,028
    Snyder said that it’s less about setting up actual sequels and more on how comic books always had an ongoing story so he wanted to replicate that feeling that more stuff would happen even if he had no intention of telling those stories.
  • Posts: 5,834
    Meanwhile, in the second Shazam! movie, Fury of the Gods, Lucy Liu (Ally McBeal, Elementary) will play the villainous Kalypso :

    https://www.cbr.com/shazam-2-lucy-liu-kalypso/
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,152
    https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-movie-logo/

    The Flash movie has started filming, with Michael Keaton to return as Batman!

    https://www.cbr.com/cyborg-flash-film-cameo-warner-bros-apology-ray-fisher/

    I hope he doesn’t, honestly. I can’t think of Cyborg in movies without thinking of his one sided (more often than not) whining about everything.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,152
    Some happy news we can all agree with!

    https://www.cbr.com/dc-fandome-virtual-event-2nd-year/
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,556
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Some happy news we can all agree with!

    https://www.cbr.com/dc-fandome-virtual-event-2nd-year/

    Cool I enjoyed last years event.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,152
    Batman 89’s Wayne Manor will be back!

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,556
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Batman 89’s Wayne Manor will be back!


    If I was not up for this film before I certainly am now, this is going to me great.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,108
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Batman 89’s Wayne Manor will be back!


    Well that is fun.
    I would be rather excited if he had rebuilt the (best) Batmobile.
  • Posts: 9,784
    Again what is funny to me is as a Batman only fan I could care less about The flash movie but with Keaton and AFFLECK coming back HELL YES I AM SEEING THIS
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited May 2021 Posts: 8,028
    It’s “I COULDN’T care less”.
  • edited May 2021 Posts: 302
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Again what is funny to me is as a Batman only fan I could care less about The flash movie but with Keaton and AFFLECK coming back HELL YES I AM SEEING THIS

    I'm mosty waiting for the return of Batman played M. Keaton (my first superhero watched in TV).
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