Rank the Fleming Bond Novels-Readability

2

Comments

  • Posts: 4,762
    Creasy47 wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    I picked up Goldfinger and a collection of Fleming Bond novels in one volume consisting Thunderball, For Your Eyes Only, and The Spy Who Loved Me at a cheap used bookstore for a good price of around $10.00. It was a steal!

    Nice! It's really hard to ignore great deals like that, no matter how low on cash you may be. It's just like when I saw the Skyfall edition of the Empire magazine the other day: I had to purchase it.

    I know, I was actually on my way out of the store when I realized that the fiction section "F" was off the my left, and I immediately stopped and looked for Fleming, and lo and behold, there they were!
    00Beast wrote:
    I picked up Goldfinger and a collection of Fleming Bond novels in one volume consisting Thunderball, For Your Eyes Only, and The Spy Who Loved Me at a cheap used bookstore for a good price of around $10.00. It was a steal!
    I'm so glad to see that you got ahold of some Fleming novels! :)

    Thanks man! I've been reading Goldfinger, it's quite enjoyable, despite my dislike for the movie.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2012 Posts: 5,921
    I just finished DAF. While it has its moments, it is in my eyes the weakest of the first four novels. At times it is such a plotless travelogue that it feels like another chapter of Thrilling Cities.

    And why does he keep the Spangs mostly offscreen? Time and again, M, Felix, etc. states how dangerous they are, but we never see it. Fleming clearly enjoys writing Wint and Kidd more; he should have made them the main villains.

    Still, it is amazing how much was skipped in adapting it to the screen: the Spang brothers' name, the hot mud torture (changed for the worse), the horse cheating (appropriated for AVTAK), Tiffany as the blackjack dealer (eventually used in LTK), the roulette sequence, the train and Wild West town (shades of, perhaps, the TMWTGG funhouse).

    The highlight, for me, was the Tiffany character. Her "American" dialogue is a bit cliche and over the top, but her backstory is fascinating and I had forgotten that Bond basically falls in love with her. The "love 'em and leave 'em" Bond is so much more a creation of the films--it seems that more often, Fleming's Bond gets his heart broken or has circumstances pull him away from the woman.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,418
    It’s either On Her Majesty’s Secret Service or You Only Live Twice, then

    From Russia With Love
    Casino Royale
    Live and Let Die
    Doctor No
    Thunderball
    Goldfinger
    Moonraker
    Diamonds Are Forever
    The Man With The Golden Gun.

    All Fleming’s Bond are readable, but some are more readable than others.

    echo wrote:
    I just finished DAF. While it has its moments, it is in my eyes the weakest of the first four novels. At times it is such a plotless travelogue that it feels like another chapter of Thrilling Cities.

    And why does he keep the Spangs mostly offscreen? Time and again, M, Felix, etc. states how dangerous they are, but we never see it. Fleming clearly enjoys writing Wint and Kidd more; he should have made them the main villains.

    Still, it is amazing how much was skipped in adapting it to the screen: the Spang brothers' name, the hot mud torture (changed for the worse), the horse cheating (appropriated for AVTAK), Tiffany as the blackjack dealer (eventually used in LTK), the roulette sequence, the train and Wild West town (shades of, perhaps, the TMWTGG funhouse).

    The highlight, for me, was the Tiffany character. Her "American" dialogue is a bit cliche and over the top, but her backstory is fascinating and I had forgotten that Bond basically falls in love with her. The "love 'em and leave 'em" Bond is so much more a creation of the films--it seems that more often, Fleming's Bond gets his heart broken or has circumstances pull him away from the woman.

    Oh, good catch.

    Spolier, for anyone who hasnt read the MR novel....


    And the last paragraph, I quite agree.. I feel pity for Bond. In MR, especially, when he’s comparing himself to Gala and her fiancée, saying he’s too cold to burden her.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    edited May 2012 Posts: 1,874
    I find MR a blast to read. I could read it twice in the same week and still enjoy it. And yes, I'll be 'controversial' again : When I read this novel I picture Moore from TMWTGG as Bond. MR's novel is full of benign bizarre that feels the same like watching DAF or TMWTGG.
    Darn. I'm about to read it and already I feel lukwarm towards it.
    :( Too bad all the Fleming can't be like CR, a truly realistic espionage book instead of over the top tripe.

    No no read it, it's an exceptional novel.

    I am just re-reading it now. It is one of my favourite Fleming's, with its slightly different structure, a great scene at Blades, some great action and a great Bond girl in Gala Brand
    - the one that got away!
    Also the only book to take place wholly in England. Read and enjoy!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2012 Posts: 28,694
    I was pleasantly surprised by MR, and @Lancaster007, please use spoiler tags ASAP on
    the comment on Gala!
    Some haven't read MR, and that is quite the bombshell.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    edited May 2012 Posts: 1,874
    echo wrote:
    I just finished DAF. While it has its moments, it is in my eyes the weakest of the first four novels. At times it is such a plotless travelogue that it feels like another chapter of Thrilling Cities.

    And why does he keep the Spangs mostly offscreen? Time and again, M, Felix, etc. states how dangerous they are, but we never see it. Fleming clearly enjoys writing Wint and Kidd more; he should have made them the main villains.

    Still, it is amazing how much was skipped in adapting it to the screen: the Spang brothers' name, the hot mud torture (changed for the worse), the horse cheating (appropriated for AVTAK), Tiffany as the blackjack dealer (eventually used in LTK), the roulette sequence, the train and Wild West town (shades of, perhaps, the TMWTGG funhouse).

    The highlight, for me, was the Tiffany character. Her "American" dialogue is a bit cliche and over the top, but her backstory is fascinating and I had forgotten that Bond basically falls in love with her. The "love 'em and leave 'em" Bond is so much more a creation of the films--it seems that more often, Fleming's Bond gets his heart broken or has circumstances pull him away from the woman.

    Quite agree Echo - weakest of the early Bonds. Also my big bugbear is that Bond seems to be lax in it. Several times his doesn't put two and two together re: clues to the bad guys!
    thumbsucking!
    .
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    I was pleasantly surprised by MR, and @Lancaster007, please use spoiler tags ASAP on
    the comment on Gala!
    Some haven't read MR, and that is quite the bombshell.

    Oops, sorry about that! Have just worked out how to do spoiler tags! Will try to remember in future!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I was pleasantly surprised by MR, and @Lancaster007, please use spoiler tags ASAP on
    the comment on Gala!
    Some haven't read MR, and that is quite the bombshell.

    Oops, sorry about that! Have just worked out how to do spoiler tags! Will try to remember in future!
    No problem, mate. There are long time members here who forget them, most crucially in regards to Skyfall. Don't feel ashamed. ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    This is one of my favorite threads. I love even passing nods to Fleming in the films.

    Do you think the name Gala Brand can be used in a future film, or will it seem too dated? Something about "Gala Brand" screams 1950s to me. And yet the dialogue about her full first name I could see easily fitting into a film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    echo wrote:
    This is one of my favorite threads. I love even passing nods to Fleming in the films.

    Do you think the name Gala Brand can be used in a future film, or will it seem too dated? Something about "Gala Brand" screams 1950s to me. And yet
    the dialogue about her full first name
    I could see easily fitting into a film.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote:
    This is one of my favorite threads. I love even passing nods to Fleming in the films.

    Do you think the name Gala Brand can be used in a future film, or will it seem too dated? Something about "Gala Brand" screams 1950s to me. And yet the dialogue about her full first name I could see easily fitting into a film.

    The name does feel dated, yes. It is lost in the plethora of the common names we now have. It could still work though, I have faith.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I read MR and I don't see what all the fuss is about. Everyone talks about the great card game, but I think CR's Casino parts were much better.

    But GF is still the best out of the books I've read.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    When I first read the Flemings as a teenager in the early/mid 70s, Dr No was always my favourite (I even wrote my own spy 'novel' which was basically a direct rip off of Dr No!), but as I've grown older the order has changed. Now my favourite film, FRWL, is also my favourite book. Other top books are: OHMSS (brilliant film too!), CR (ditto), Goldfinger, MR, Thunderball, and I also like YOLT. I was most upset on seeing the film on TV when it first aired to find no Dr Shatterhand or Garden of Death! Two elements that should be incorporated into some future film.
    Least liked is TSWLM and DAF - but I still read 'em all.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    I read MR and I don't see what all the fuss is about. Everyone talks about the great card game, but I think CR's Casino parts were much better

    .quote]

    Couldn't agree with you more TLR. The way people on this site raved about MR you'd think it was OHMSS. Which it definitely is not! And you're right, the card game in CR is much better.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    What's everyone's take on Thunderball? Reading it now, it's quite dense in terms of espionage and Blofeld's organization. You need to be alert to read it. The Shrublands section drags a bit but it's nevertheless a great passage.
  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Fleming's early books are so well written and engaging.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    I'd say my three are "Casino Royale," "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," and "From Russia With Love."
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    Although now I enjoy and appreciate all of his works immensely, when I started reading Fleming's novels I was 11 and really struggled with some of them, so basing the 'readability' on someone coming into the books with only the films as a point of reference, I would suggest:

    Dr No
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Moonraker
    Live And Let Die
    Thunderball
    Goldfinger
    Casino Royale
    From Russia With Love
    Diamonds Are Forever
    The Man With The Golden Gun
    The Spy Who Loved Me
    You Only Live Twice
  • Posts: 14,800
    All of them are readable. I find DAF the most difficult one to get through because it drags a bit at some point, but still it has its fair share of moments. And I was happily surprised about TSWLM. It was actually a great read and I never got bored once.
  • edited May 2013 Posts: 802
    To answer DB7's question - here is the definitive response:
    1= OHMSS
    1= FRWL
    3= Thunderball
    4= Goldfinger
    5= Dr.NO
    6= Moonraker
    7= Casino Royale
    8= YOLT
    9= LALD
    10= TMWTGG
    11= DAF
    12= TSWLM
    For me, there is a huge difference in quality between my top 8 and the bottom 4.
    Ironicaly, with the exception of the fabulous "Skyfall", the 1= also made the best movies.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    RC7 wrote:
    If you like Blofeld you'll love TB. It's got some great exposition.

    Reading it now. Heavy on the Blofeld and SPECTRE.

    The passage on Domino is one of the best bits of writing on a Bond girl you will read. Amazing.
  • edited May 2013 Posts: 546
    FRWL
    CR
    TSWLM
    MR
    DAF
    GF
    OHMSS
    TB
    MWTGG
    DN
    OP
    YOLT
    FYEO
    TLD/OP

    All of Ian Fleming's novels are a great read.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    As are his short stories, especially "The Living Daylights," and "For Your Eyes Only."
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    saunders wrote:
    Although now I enjoy and appreciate all of his works immensely, when I started reading Fleming's novels I was 11 and really struggled with some of them, so basing the 'readability' on someone coming into the books with only the films as a point of reference, I would suggest:

    Dr No
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Moonraker
    Live And Let Die
    Thunderball
    Goldfinger
    Casino Royale
    From Russia With Love
    Diamonds Are Forever
    The Man With The Golden Gun
    The Spy Who Loved Me
    You Only Live Twice

    High praise for Dr. No.

    I'm surprised you put YOLT last behind even TSWLM.

    Here's my (ever-changing) list with short stories:

    Casino Royale
    Moonraker
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Goldfinger
    From Russia With Love
    Dr No
    For Your Eyes Only
    Octopussy & The Living Daylights
    Live And Let Die
    Thunderball
    The Man With The Golden Gun
    Diamonds Are Forever
    You Only Live Twice
    The Spy Who Loved Me

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Ludovico wrote:
    All of them are readable. I find DAF the most difficult one to get through because it drags a bit at some point, but still it has its fair share of moments. And I was happily surprised about TSWLM. It was actually a great read and I never got bored once.
    I concur!
  • Posts: 2,400
    Least to Most Readable:

    First off, I think the novels are (obviously) much more readable than the short stories by convention; multiple short stories with unrelated plots in succession will always make for a haphazard read.

    The Short Stories

    FYEO - Very haphazard, and just outright bland. It's not Fleming's worst, but it's quite dull and certainly is not even close to showing what made Fleming a great author
    OP & TLD - These are better, but again, the conventions of short stories make these less readable than the novels. I can read any of them on their own, but the pacing is uneven from story to story. I actually prefer this collection to several of the novels, but this is ranking readability, not greatness

    The Novels

    TSWLM - Let's be honest. There are a lot of problems with this one, and they all revolve around the lack of a certain individual named James Bond. Makes for a terribly bland read, and I've only ever gone through it once; I intend to never do so again
    Moonraker - I found this one to have the most filler out of all of Fleming's books; its' length is evidence of that, but at the same time, DAF is a page longer yet is much more readable than Moonraker
    LALD - I really think Fleming went out of his comfort zone with Live and Let Die, to be honest. It's his most awkwardly-written book and it really comes across as just being written by a man who pushed his boundaries as an author too far. At 20 pages longer, it's quite difficult to read following Casino Royale. Also one of his worst Bond books, which doesn't help for quality of reading
    Goldfinger - This is the first easy read of Fleming's. I don't breeze through it like I do with FRWL or OHMSS, but nonetheless, it's very engaging and enjoyable
    DAF - Very good book. I'd say Goldfinger is better, but this is more fun to read. About all there is to say
    Dr. No - This is the first "great" book in the list for me. I was thrilled my whole way through the book, and while it's a bit unsatisfying as a followup to the magnificent FRWL, on its' own it's a near masterpiece
    Thunderball - Very readable, very engaging. It's quite long, though, only a few pages behind Moonraker, and accordingly contains a bit of filler here and there. Besides, it starts the Blofeld Trilogy, and that alone makes it worth the price of admission
    TMWTGG - I know, I know, I'm crazy for not having this at the bottom and instead having it in my top five. Yes, it's haphazard, and so un-Bondlike compared to the other books, and yes it does fall short due to Fleming's death after the first draft, but it's still a lot of fun to read and is really just enjoyable, if not a particularly good book. It's basically my Octopussy of the book series; it's ranked high, even though it really shouldn't be
    YOLT - This is really close to tying with my top three, as I think YOLT is the first of Fleming's true masterpieces in this list. It's just a great, fun, enjoyable, exciting read. And the only reason it's 4th on the list is because the other three have all of those things at higher doses
    Casino Royale - It's a bit uneven, and you can tell that Fleming still has some work to do to be the truly great author he became, but it is a thrilling introduction to the Bond character, and I think it's the fact that this was the first piece of media dealing with our favourite fictional character that makes this retrospectively such an easy read
    OHMSS - Brilliant. Absolutely fucking brilliant. This is, from an objective viewpoint, the best, highest-quality written book out of them all. And I'd say subjectively it's my #1 as well. The only book that comes above this one, at least in terms of readability alone, comes just because this book - even though it's perfect - can be a much longer read, especially as it's 35 pages longer

    And the easiest read out of them all...

    FROM RUSSIA, WITH LOVE

    What can I say? This was my first Bond book, ever. I was just a kid, probably 10 or 11, when I first read it, and by God was I in love with it! Even though I was by this point well-versed in most of the films and knew exactly who James Bond was as a character, this completely re-introduced me to him. I was thrilled from the first page to the last. This is just beyond magnificent and, quite honestly, the film (which is possibly in my top five if not top three of the Bond films) has absolutely nothing on its' respective book. I read this within a week, maybe less. And I return to it just as often as I do to the Blofeld Trilogy (OHMSS in particular).
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Excellent post @stirrednotshaken

    Still feel Moonraker is Flemings best though ;)

    Admittedly I haven't read all the books but I have read the majority at least once:

    -My rankings:

    -Moonraker
    -From Russia With Love
    -Casino Royale
    -On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    -Dr No
    -Live and Let Die
    -Goldfinger
    -You Only Live Twice
    -Man With The Golden Gun
    -Thunderball
    -Diamonds are Forever
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I'm currently reading TB. First three chapters and I'm hooked.
  • JRPennJRPenn Global
    Posts: 1
    #12. DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER - This was the only novel in the Bond canon I can say I disliked. I just couldn’t get into it; it was boring, I don’t think the villains were strong enough to sustain my interest, and I remember very little of it.

    #11. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME - I actually liked this, even though most 007 fans don’t seem to, and Ian Fleming basically disowned it after he wrote it. I still think it’s a lower end Bond novel, because this is basically the autobiography of Vivienne Michel and Bond is only really a supporting character. However, it shows Fleming’s range as a writer and by this point in the series I think Fleming did need to shake things up and experiment to keep the books from becoming repetitive.

    #10. THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN - Not the strongest novel in the series, but I enjoyed Scaramanga as a villain. HIs brashness was a sharp contrast from the mostly smooth-talking, calculating villains Bond had typically been going after.

    #9. GOLDFINGER - An entertaining story, but loses points for implausibility. Goldfinger’s plan to rob Fort Knox is unrealistic even by Bond novel standards, not to mention it’s hard to believe the richest man in England would resort to mass murdering everyone at a military base to make more money he clearly doesn’t need, or that he would hire Bond, who has been clearly trying to undermine him, to work as his employee… there’s also his name, “Auric Goldfinger”… a guy who’s name is basically “Gold Goldfinger” who coincidentally happens to be obsessed with gold, is literally like something out of a cartoon. On the positive side, Goldfinger and Oddjob are 2 of the most colorful villains in the Bond canon. The most unrealistic book in the Bond series, but entertaining if you can manage an extremely strong suspension of disbelief.

    #8. ON HER MAJESTY’S SECRET SERVICE - The final scene in this book, where a newly widowed Bond is too in shock to fully process that his new bride has been killed, might be the best individual scene in the entire Bond series, and the novel is worth reading for that. Aside from that, the action seems a bit more subdued here than in other Bond stories, and Blofeld is at his least menacing in this episode.

    #7. MOONRAKER - Good story, though I thought it started a little slow, before picking up in Acts 2 and 3, and I think Hugo Drax is a little overrated as a villain. Stands out for the curve balls of being the only Bond novel entirely in England, and the only one where he doesn’t get the girl.

    #6. THUNDERBALL - Another good story, with one of the best climactic battles in the series.

    #5. LIVE AND LET DIE - I’d say this, Bond’s sophomore outing, establishes the typical “Bond formula” most of the books would follow, moreso than its predecessor. The elements of voodoo, fortune telling, shark and barracuda attacks, trap doors, buried treasure, and Bond’s first true megalomaniacal villain, Mr. Big, give this story an exotic flavor to it.

    #4. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE - SMERSH conspires to kill James Bond by using a pretty girl to lure him onto an Orient Express train ride, where they will send an assassin to meet him. There’s a lot to like about this one, including the colorful villains, unorthodox plot structure, and the cliffhanger ending. Two complaints - the story did lull a little in the middle, and the identity of the assassin at the end can be seen from a mile away, and should have been seen by Bond.

    #3. CASINO ROYALE - Ian Fleming starts the James Bond series off with a bang here. The casino scenes where Bond and Le Chiffre compete at Baccarat are exciting, Le Chiffre’s subsequent torture of Bond is shuddering, and the final twist at the novel’s end, leading to Bond’s vow to make it his life’s mission to take on SMERSH, make this a great “pilot episode” for the Bond series. I considered ranking this #1, because my enjoyment of this was what pushed me to read all of the Bond books. But on the negative side, the action is smaller scale than future Bond adventures, and the villain is probably dispatched too early in the story, resulting in a too-relaxed final act.

    #2. YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - I was surprised at how much I liked this, and I also considered ranking it #1. After spending almost the entire series in Europe and the Americas, it’s a breath of fresh air to see Bond immersing himself and learning about a radically different culture he knows nothing of: Japan. Bond’s mission in this book - infiltrating Blofeld’s Garden of Death and taking him down - have to be considered the biggest mission of his career, from both Blofeld’s stature as the founder of SPECTRE, his repeated elusiveness in comparison to other Bond villains who are all one and done, and of course the very personal reason that Blofeld killed Bond’s wife, Tracy. Blofeld’s death gives a sense of closure in the series that never really happened with Bond’s nemesis in the earlier books, SMERSH. Bond’s presumed death at the end, followed by the publishing of his obituary, and the news of Kissy’s pregnancy, collectively pack a bigger punch than maybe any other Bond novel’s ending. My opinion is that Fleming could easily have ended the series here, with Bond living out his days presumed dead in Japan with Kissy, (similar to what Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Rises did with Batman), and not even bothered with TMWTGG.

    #1. DOCTOR NO - My vote for the platonic ideal for a Bond story. Bond goes after one of his best villains, the ominous Doctor No, loses a good friend, goes through immense torture, and gets the girl. A terrific read. If I could only recommend one Bond novel to someone, this is likely what I would go with.


    For the sake of completion, I’ll also rank the Bond short stories:
    #1. For Your Eyes Only
    #2. Octopussy
    #3. Quantum of Solace
    #4. The Property of a Lady
    #5. The Hildebrand Rarity
    #6. The Living Daylights
    #7. From a View to a Kill
    #8. Risico
    #9. 007 in New York
  • PussyNoMore has to confess to finding this thread a little bizarre - of course they are all extremely readable, that’s the whole point!
    The very best thing for any novice to do is to start with ‘Casino Royale’ and work their way through chronologically.
    What a delight that would be. To be reading these treasures for the first time.
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