Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2014 Posts: 17,691
    Ludovico wrote:
    I didn't either, until I read an interview when Michael Apted said Elektra was the first credible female Bond villain... and then I saw TWINE in a very different light, and pretty much as a labour of arrogance.

    Again, who CARES what these idiots say? Judge the product, not the comments after the production.
    I've never had a dude buy a phaser replica from me & later quibble that since I made comments online concerning America needing background checks on gun purchases, I'm a pacifist & my phaser was made by a person who hates guns so it must suck.... :-O
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2014 Posts: 16,330
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I didn't either, until I read an interview when Michael Apted said Elektra was the first credible female Bond villain... and then I saw TWINE in a very different light, and pretty much as a labour of arrogance.

    Again, who CARES what these idiots say? Judge the product, not the comments after the production.
    I've never had a dude buy a phaser replica from me & later quibble that since I made comments online concerning America needing background checks on gun purchases, I'm a pacifist & my phaser was made by a person who hates guns so it must suck.... :-O

    I agree with @chrisisall. I don't care about Apted's comments. I enjoyed his one time go at Bond and while it isn't a perfect film. I stand by my comments. Joke about my comparison about OHMSS if you want. (not referring to anyone in particular.) The proof is in the movie. Heck the movie is taken from Bond's family motto mentioned in OHMSS. "The World is Not Enough."

    After Bond's injury he is ignored from being given the mission. He has to prove to M he can take on the mission and catch the perpetrators.

    Electra asks Bond if he ever lost a loved one and Bond takes a brief silence before brushing the comment aside and changing the Subject.

    The Ski chase is very similar to the one near the latter half of OHMSS and Elektra is dressed very similar to Tracy, even wearing a puffy snow hat. Mirroring the peaceful moment together as they ski before the Parahawks come in and ruin the party. Bond defeats the last parahawk creating an avalanche.

    While the plot is nothing new, if you look past the criticisms, you can find a lot of good and some nice twists on classic Bond elements. It's easily Brosnan's second best Bond film.

    Apted's arrogant comments don't ruin the film for me. Nor does Tom Cruise's off camera activities make me think less of his movies.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Murdock wrote:
    Apted's arrogant comments don't ruin the film for me. Nor does Tom Cruise's off camera activities make me think less of his movies.

    Exactly! It's about the ART, not the artist.
  • From what I've gathered and browsed over, it's almost impossible to make a controversial statement about TWINE. It seems to be probably the most divisive of any Bond film. I see it in plenty of Top 10's and even Top 5's and in plenty of bottom 5's as well.

    A very divisive film it seems.
  • From what I've gathered and browsed over, it's almost impossible to make a controversial statement about TWINE. It seems to be probably the most divisive of any Bond film. I see it in plenty of Top 10's and even Top 5's and in plenty of bottom 5's as well.

    A very divisive film it seems.

    Well you could argue that it has the best pre title sequence in the series, but then there can be no dispute - it has

    Some would say Viktor Zokas is the main antagonist, while it is in fact Elektra King. I have in fact made, would some would see, as a controversial statement as saying it's Brosnan's best James Bond release, while most others would favor Goldeneye

    Is that controversial ? Dependant on one persons perspective, but I always stand by that decision, right or wrong
  • Posts: 14,831
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I didn't either, until I read an interview when Michael Apted said Elektra was the first credible female Bond villain... and then I saw TWINE in a very different light, and pretty much as a labour of arrogance.

    Again, who CARES what these idiots say? Judge the product, not the comments after the production.
    I've never had a dude buy a phaser replica from me & later quibble that since I made comments online concerning America needing background checks on gun purchases, I'm a pacifist & my phaser was made by a person who hates guns so it must suck.... :-O

    The thing, the idiot in question directed the movie and made an idiotic comment regarding the movie, but also passing a specific judgment on the whole franchise. So his comment made me see it in.a new light. But it is his arrogance that really got me.

    Regarding the pts of TWINE, I find it overrated. And overlong.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    chrisisall wrote:
    doubleoego wrote:
    In the end and this is pure speculation, money and the association of being Bond for a guy that wanted the role so badly took precedence over artistic integrity and any proposed depth that Brosnan had hoped to explore.
    Heh heh, more humour here.
    And what did Lazenby hope to explore besides maybe a paycheck, fame & a bunch of Sixties hippy chick's panties? Was Moore in it for Fleming's character, or his own 'Saint-ly' interpretation?

    :)) \m/

    The thing is, Lazenby didn't really give a damn about the role. He was on a hunt for fame and glory but without the passion and appreciation for the character that Brosnan has/had Lazenby was still able to make the role his own without aping Connery. As for Moore, again, his interpretation brought his own conspicuous style and made the role his own but like I said, none of the actors wanted the role as badly as Brosnan and for someone who wanted the role so badly, eventually got it and wanted to take the character to new heights, he didn't do anything particularly interesting or make the role his own in a unique way unless that's how you see generic box-ticking to be. Brosnan was a good Bond but was more serviceable than anything particularly special and I do feel he was overwhelmed by the role not just because of his comments but because of his lack of reinforced contribution to the creative process and because of what I can see in his performances in all of his 4 movies. Watch some of his non Bond films during his tenure as Bond and his post Bond career, the guy is a very capable actor and really could have done something interesting with the Bind character but in the end he really didn't.
  • Posts: 6,396
    From what I've gathered and browsed over, it's almost impossible to make a controversial statement about TWINE. It seems to be probably the most divisive of any Bond film. I see it in plenty of Top 10's and even Top 5's and in plenty of bottom 5's as well.

    A very divisive film it seems.

    Well you could argue that it has the best pre title sequence in the series, but then there can be no dispute - it has

    Some would say Viktor Zokas is the main antagonist, while it is in fact Elektra King. I have in fact made, would some would see, as a controversial statement as saying it's Brosnan's best James Bond release, while most others would favor Goldeneye

    Is that controversial ? Dependant on one persons perspective, but I always stand by that decision, right or wrong

    I will argue that it's nowhere near the best PTS of the series. It's way too long and the boat chase is actually quite boring. The barrell roll in particular isn't helped by the multiple camera cuts or the fact you can see how the stunt is done.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 7,570
    From what I've gathered and browsed over, it's almost impossible to make a controversial statement about TWINE. It seems to be probably the most divisive of any Bond film. I see it in plenty of Top 10's and even Top 5's and in plenty of bottom 5's as well.

    A very divisive film it seems.

    Well you could argue that it has the best pre title sequence in the series, but then there can be no dispute - it has

    Some would say Viktor Zokas is the main antagonist, while it is in fact Elektra King. I have in fact made, would some would see, as a controversial statement as saying it's Brosnan's best James Bond release, while most others would favor Goldeneye

    Is that controversial ? Dependant on one persons perspective, but I always stand by that decision, right or wrong

    I will argue that it's nowhere near the best PTS of the series. It's way too long and the boat chase is actually quite boring. The barrell roll in particular isn't helped by the multiple camera cuts or the fact you can see how the stunt is done.

    It's not even the best PTS from the Brosnan films. GE's PTS has more satisfying elements than TWINE. And TND has more tension.
  • Posts: 6,396
    NicNac wrote:
    From what I've gathered and browsed over, it's almost impossible to make a controversial statement about TWINE. It seems to be probably the most divisive of any Bond film. I see it in plenty of Top 10's and even Top 5's and in plenty of bottom 5's as well.

    A very divisive film it seems.

    Well you could argue that it has the best pre title sequence in the series, but then there can be no dispute - it has

    Some would say Viktor Zokas is the main antagonist, while it is in fact Elektra King. I have in fact made, would some would see, as a controversial statement as saying it's Brosnan's best James Bond release, while most others would favor Goldeneye

    Is that controversial ? Dependant on one persons perspective, but I always stand by that decision, right or wrong

    I will argue that it's nowhere near the best PTS of the series. It's way too long and the boat chase is actually quite boring. The barrell roll in particular isn't helped by the multiple camera cuts or the fact you can see how the stunt is done.

    It's not even the best PTS from the Brosnan films. GE's PTS has more satisfying elements than TWINE. And TND has more tension.

    I'm not a massive fan of TND's either but it probably is better than TWINE. But there's no question that GE is Brosnan's best and most satisfying PTS.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Linked to this I sometimes feel I'm the only one who doesn't mind Brosnan's "forgot to knock" line.
  • Posts: 6,396
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Linked to this I sometimes feel I'm the only one who doesn't mind Brosnan's "forgot to knock" line.

    It's not the greatest line ever, but compared to some of the dialogue that was to follow in the next three films, it's positively Dickens!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Linked to this I sometimes feel I'm the only one who doesn't mind Brosnan's "forgot to knock" line.

    Worst introduction ever. Hanging upside down, smiling goofily at a Russian taking a dump. Wow, what class, the stage is set.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 2,400
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Linked to this I sometimes feel I'm the only one who doesn't mind Brosnan's "forgot to knock" line.

    Worst introduction ever. Hanging upside down, smiling goofily at a Russian taking a dump. Wow, what class, the stage is set.

    I do completely agree it's the worst "new Bond actor" introduction in the series. Completely takes away from the excellent Dam jump. Moore's was pretty goddamn awful but Brosnan's is still worse. Thankfully it's the biggest misstep of the movie and is out of the way right at the beginning. The rest of the PTS is excellent.

    For sake of reference, we've got...

    "I admire your courage..."
    "Good morning! My name is Bond, James Bond."
    "*Italian*"
    No dialogue, just a badass shot of the world's biggest badass ever.
    "Beg your pardon, forgot to knock."
    "M doesn't mind you making a little money on the side, Dryden. She'd just prefer it if it wasn't selling secrets."
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited January 2014 Posts: 45,489
    I agree the dam jump was impressive, but the real introduction is when you see his face and he speaks. You can practically smell the shit, it was just cringeworthy. And yes, the Moore introduction was rather weak as well. At least it was in his own flat, and not in some toilet. :(
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Whatever. I thought It was fine. I honestly havent cringed once in the many times ive seen it. In fact its made me smile a bit. Broz delivers it well and makes an admittedly cheesy line work. There's FAR worse dialogue in the series whether it be from the leery Moore or indeed Brosnan later on. "Forgot to knock" is comparatively pretty mild.
  • Posts: 2,400
    I think the other four are all great. Sean's is the most iconic moment in the series, George has that great fight sequence and I also think visually it's really nice looking, Tim's is just start to finish badass, and Dan has one of the best movie openings in the history of cinema.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    George has a good fight scene and build up but his delivery of the intro line and "this never happened to the other fella" ruin an otherwise excellent PTS a little for me. I just can't stand that line for some reason...and I don't care what Laz said about him saying it regularly on
    set.

    Tims is very good although I'm a bit iffy about the last few seconds on the boat.
  • I don't mind "forgot to knock" one bit, on topic. I can see why people wouldn't like it though.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    @doubleoego. Back to your earlier post about Laz I think its worth noting that both he and Broz had a rather "boyish" attitude to playing Bond. (Ie. this is going to be so much fun and I'll now be a big star). Both craved the role to a certain extent but Laz probably had to work harder to get it. Whatever you may think of him in the film one does have to admire his balls for convincing the producers he was the man for the job.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,570
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @doubleoego. Back to your earlier post about Laz I think its worth noting that both he and Broz had a rather "boyish" attitude to playing Bond. (Ie. this is going to be so much fun and I'll now be a big star). Both craved the role to a certain extent but Laz probably had to work harder to get it. Whatever you may think of him in the film one does have to admire his balls for convincing the producers he was the man for the job.
    It was possibly the greatest piece of blagging ever. He doesn't get enough credit for what he achieved.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 23,548
    Perhaps this is rather controversial but here goes: TWINE builds so hard on coincidence, its story is one of the least competent ever written for the Bonds.

    Bond is in the casino and who happens to drop by? Electra! Valentin's nephew happens to be the captain of a nuclear submarine Renard and Electra need. Bond doesn't know what's in the bags Davidov brought with him but he picks the right one for the guy from the plane. The alarm clock Renard puts conveniently within M's reach just happens to be connectible to the card which they coincidentally neglected to search for on M's body. Valentin coincidentally drops in a pool of beluga, which is lucky because now Bond can interrogate him. What a coincidence that Valentin storms the tower at the exact moment Bond was about to get his neck snapped. What a coincidence also that Valentin's cane has a gun in it, which we never learned about before...
  • Posts: 6,396
    Here's one:

    Brosnan gives a more 'Bondian' performance in the The Thomas Crown Affair than any of his four Bond films.
  • "Forgot to knock" just shows why Goldeneye would have been about 700 times better with Dalton not Brosnan (I don't even mind Brosnan that much, aside from the fact he was fairly engaging, and sometimes bland). Doesn't have a thing on the intros for Connery, Lazenby, Dalton or Craig (don't talk to me about Moore's. I just hope there's a parallel universe where both that scene and the entire Roger Moore era didn't happen).

    Anyway, I don't know whether this is controversial or not since I haven't been here that long, but I think that Fleming would have HATED Moore's Bond. With a passion.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like Moore but I've said before that he's always the actor I see the least in my head when I read the books.
  • Posts: 107
    Mayday is more attractive than Rosie Carver and Countess Lisl.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Chang wrote:
    Mayday is more attractive than Rosie Carver and Countess Lisl.

    Should've gone to Specsavers...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Brosnan's intro line is nowhere near as bad as some if you are making out. I mean sure, it's not as sophisticated as Connery's intro but still, it was a throwaway quip. You guys are being too harsh.
    Also @Chang, I'm inclined to agree with @Willy.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @doubleoego. Back to your earlier post about Laz I think its worth noting that both he and Broz had a rather "boyish" attitude to playing Bond. (Ie. this is going to be so much fun and I'll now be a big star). Both craved the role to a certain extent but Laz probably had to work harder to get it. Whatever you may think of him in the film one does have to admire his balls for convincing the producers he was the man for the job.

    I completely agree with you, it's just that his attitude during production and him returning didn't seem like that of someone who coveted the role as something incredibly precious. Brosnan is the only actor I think that felt genuine devastation from no longer being able to continue in the role.

  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Linked to this I sometimes feel I'm the only one who doesn't mind Brosnan's "forgot to knock" line.

    Worst introduction ever. Hanging upside down, smiling goofily at a Russian taking a dump. Wow, what class, the stage is set.

    I do completely agree it's the worst "new Bond actor" introduction in the series. Completely takes away from the excellent Dam jump. Moore's was pretty goddamn awful but Brosnan's is still worse. Thankfully it's the biggest misstep of the movie and is out of the way right at the beginning. The rest of the PTS is excellent.

    For sake of reference, we've got...

    "I admire your courage..."
    "Good morning! My name is Bond, James Bond."
    "*Italian*"
    No dialogue, just a badass shot of the world's biggest badass ever.
    "Beg your pardon, forgot to knock."
    "M doesn't mind you making a little money on the side, Dryden. She'd just prefer it if it wasn't selling secrets."

    If you're going to count Dalton's shocked/angry look, than you should probably count Brosnan's dam jump. And the Lazenator's introduction was worse than Brosnan's, considering that he sounds way too cheerful for a secret agent rescuing somebody from drowning.
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