Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 12,837
    I've always had a soft spot for NSNA. Connery is great, Largo is a brilliant bad guy, Blush is an even better henchwoman, and them actually acknowledging Bond's age sets it apart, and as it's the only film so far where Bond has a Q Branch fitted motorbike I'll defend it til the day I die. Shame it was Yahama though, surely he should be on a Triumph? If anyone EON is reading this: if you have Wishaw's Q give him a Bonneville in Bond 25, I promise I'll finally forgive you for Quantum of Solace.

    But yeah I quite like NSNA. I think it's hindered by the terrible score and by them having to follow the plot of TB. But how can you not love a film where Bond beats the henchman from Indiana Jones by throwing piss in his face, and where later the OTT, prototo henchwoman has a chance to kill Bond, but first wants him to leave a note saying she was his best shag ever, allowing him to shoot her with his pen's hidden explosive dart launcher? I think it's a really fun watch. A nice little self aware take on an older Bond. It doesn't need to exist, but I'm glad it does because it does have some stuff going for it, and it's another couple of hours of Sean Connery (who seems to be enjoying himself) as James Bond.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited April 2019 Posts: 4,423
    I still would have loved to see the deleted scene with Severine at the Shanghai airport
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,531
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    They often take up too much screen time and to be ignored. Some of the best (Severine, for example) are gone in blink.

    Which raises the question - if Severine had, say, another twenty minutes of screen time, would you like her less?

    We will never know. Though I’m sure that the answer is really dependent on how she would be utilized.

    Leave the audience wanting more.... and that's what they did with Severine (and Mathis before her), in spades....
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,048
    Oh, I want more Sévérine. On the other hand, the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

    And she burns so very very brightly. Some very good choices by the filmmakers there.
  • Posts: 1,595
    Severine is on the very short list of Bond girls who have gotten very little screen time and made an absolute meteoric impact. She probably cracks my top 5, or comes close, of Bond girls and the other ones on that list are given scene after scene after scene whereas she really only gets one (and a half?). That's impressive.

    Every time I rewatch Skyfall, no matter how many times I've viewed the film, I'm always surprised at how little of her she actually is, and how much of an impact she has on the film as a whole. Huge props to the actress and the writers for accomplishing that.
  • Posts: 7,500
    Severine is on the very short list of Bond girls who have gotten very little screen time and made an absolute meteoric impact. She probably cracks my top 5, or comes close, of Bond girls and the other ones on that list are given scene after scene after scene whereas she really only gets one (and a half?). That's impressive.

    Every time I rewatch Skyfall, no matter how many times I've viewed the film, I'm always surprised at how little of her she actually is, and how much of an impact she has on the film as a whole. Huge props to the actress and the writers for accomplishing that.


    Sovereign Severine supreme!
  • Posts: 1,883
    Okay, here's my controversial opinion regarding the recent Severine love fest, somewhat inspired by a similar conversation on the QoS appreciation thread about the Camille character.

    Is Severine that interesting, or as a poster above said made "an absolute meteoric impact"? That's way overstating it. I'm not telling people what to like or not, but she's not exactly Tracy or Vesper. Her appearance doesn't really have an impact on the film as a whole, really. I never felt the film suffered after her demise in the way TB did somewhat after Fiona's death or NSNA after Fatima's.

    I like the Severine character and thought she was used just right in SF, much better than the Moneypenny character. There's nothing not to like. One of the things I like about SF is its not needing to rely on a woman to be an integral part of the story just because the series was has done that for 50-plus years.

    But ultimately she's not that much different than TMWTGG's Andrea Anders, a sex slave who the villain turns into a sacrificial lamb after she's been with Bond in the hopes he'll free her.



  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,978
    I've always had a soft spot for NSNA. Connery is great, Largo is a brilliant bad guy, Blush is an even better henchwoman, and them actually acknowledging Bond's age sets it apart, and as it's the only film so far where Bond has a Q Branch fitted motorbike I'll defend it til the day I die. Shame it was Yahama though, surely he should be on a Triumph? If anyone EON is reading this: if you have Wishaw's Q give him a Bonneville in Bond 25, I promise I'll finally forgive you for Quantum of Solace.

    But yeah I quite like NSNA. I think it's hindered by the terrible score and by them having to follow the plot of TB. But how can you not love a film where Bond beats the henchman from Indiana Jones by throwing piss in his face, and where later the OTT, prototo henchwoman has a chance to kill Bond, but first wants him to leave a note saying she was his best shag ever, allowing him to shoot her with his pen's hidden explosive dart launcher? I think it's a really fun watch. A nice little self aware take on an older Bond. It doesn't need to exist, but I'm glad it does because it does have some stuff going for it, and it's another couple of hours of Sean Connery (who seems to be enjoying himself) as James Bond.

    To be honest I find it the weakest of the Austin Powers' films.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,950
    I've always had a soft spot for NSNA. Connery is great, Largo is a brilliant bad guy, Blush is an even better henchwoman, and them actually acknowledging Bond's age sets it apart, and as it's the only film so far where Bond has a Q Branch fitted motorbike I'll defend it til the day I die. Shame it was Yahama though, surely he should be on a Triumph? If anyone EON is reading this: if you have Wishaw's Q give him a Bonneville in Bond 25, I promise I'll finally forgive you for Quantum of Solace.
    Yeah, Bond should ride more bikes, and definitely have another Q-bike! There was a Norton Dominator SS in Q's workshop in Spectre - outfitted with front machine guns, but sadly, wasted as background dressing. I've been hoping Craig gets to ride it this time around.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUaH-0OWUAErVGl.jpg:large
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,700
    I've always had a soft spot for NSNA. Connery is great, Largo is a brilliant bad guy, Blush is an even better henchwoman, and them actually acknowledging Bond's age sets it apart, and as it's the only film so far where Bond has a Q Branch fitted motorbike I'll defend it til the day I die. Shame it was Yahama though, surely he should be on a Triumph? If anyone EON is reading this: if you have Wishaw's Q give him a Bonneville in Bond 25, I promise I'll finally forgive you for Quantum of Solace.

    But yeah I quite like NSNA. I think it's hindered by the terrible score and by them having to follow the plot of TB. But how can you not love a film where Bond beats the henchman from Indiana Jones by throwing piss in his face, and where later the OTT, prototo henchwoman has a chance to kill Bond, but first wants him to leave a note saying she was his best shag ever, allowing him to shoot her with his pen's hidden explosive dart launcher? I think it's a really fun watch. A nice little self aware take on an older Bond. It doesn't need to exist, but I'm glad it does because it does have some stuff going for it, and it's another couple of hours of Sean Connery (who seems to be enjoying himself) as James Bond.

    To be honest I find it the weakest of the Austin Powers' films.
    While I like your satirical effort, I do think (quite without irony) that NSNA is overall more entertaining than TB, even though TB is no doubt the original and superior in other aspects. But not more (re-)watchable.

    But yet again, my judgment is influenced by having seen NSNA several times before ever getting around to watch TB, and I never thought it was an improvement compared to its later copy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I will take Pippi Longstocking over Bond any day.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 13,950
    Pippi for female 007!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    QBranch wrote: »
    Pippi for female 007!

    She is more of a hero than him. She would never work for those people.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,978
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I've always had a soft spot for NSNA. Connery is great, Largo is a brilliant bad guy, Blush is an even better henchwoman, and them actually acknowledging Bond's age sets it apart, and as it's the only film so far where Bond has a Q Branch fitted motorbike I'll defend it til the day I die. Shame it was Yahama though, surely he should be on a Triumph? If anyone EON is reading this: if you have Wishaw's Q give him a Bonneville in Bond 25, I promise I'll finally forgive you for Quantum of Solace.

    But yeah I quite like NSNA. I think it's hindered by the terrible score and by them having to follow the plot of TB. But how can you not love a film where Bond beats the henchman from Indiana Jones by throwing piss in his face, and where later the OTT, prototo henchwoman has a chance to kill Bond, but first wants him to leave a note saying she was his best shag ever, allowing him to shoot her with his pen's hidden explosive dart launcher? I think it's a really fun watch. A nice little self aware take on an older Bond. It doesn't need to exist, but I'm glad it does because it does have some stuff going for it, and it's another couple of hours of Sean Connery (who seems to be enjoying himself) as James Bond.

    To be honest I find it the weakest of the Austin Powers' films.
    While I like your satirical effort, I do think (quite without irony) that NSNA is overall more entertaining than TB, even though TB is no doubt the original and superior in other aspects. But not more (re-)watchable.

    But yet again, my judgment is influenced by having seen NSNA several times before ever getting around to watch TB, and I never thought it was an improvement compared to its later copy.

    It's called Stockholm syndrome.... ;-)

    I find everything better in the original. Domino actually feels like the book-Domino, as does Adolfo as Largo, instead of a raving mad man akin to Zorin (both very well executed, just the wrong story). Fiona is a temptress and the hottest thing on two legs ever to grace the silver screen, without trying to. Fatima on the other hand is an overblown cardboard copy.

    NSNA is a parody, and not a very good one. Thunderball oozes sixties style and charisma. NSNA oozes TV-remake.
  • edited April 2019 Posts: 14,839
    I don't find that old lady with the machine gun in GF detrimental to the movie. Old women can be nasty and evil too.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,985
    Controversial opinion: I can't warm to FRWL. I know it's Fleming and I know it's early Connery but I just can't make myself fall in love with it. The closest I come to love are those four recurring notes of Barry's score...
  • Posts: 17,295
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I can't warm to FRWL. I know it's Fleming and I know it's early Connery but I just can't make myself fall in love with it. The closest I come to love are those four recurring notes of Barry's score...

    giphy.gif

    Shock aside, I can see how FRWL can be challenging to warm to for some. I've seen comments about it's pacing, and I guess pre-GF Bond isn't for everyone. A lot of elements only fall in place with that film.

    Still a top three film for me.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't find that old lady with the machine gun in GF detrimental to the movie. Old women can be nasty and evil too.

    That had to be Guy Hamilton's idea. He liked the idea of putting sweet little old lady characters who look like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths turning out to be criminals(that lady in GF and Mrs. Whistler in DAF). Wasn't aware anyone didn't like them.
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I can't warm to FRWL. I know it's Fleming and I know it's early Connery but I just can't make myself fall in love with it. The closest I come to love are those four recurring notes of Barry's score...

    No prob. I feel the same way about FYEO. I don't find it bad but with the absence of John Barry's music, the absence of a supervillain(after the PTS, anyway), the basically platonic relationship between Bond and the leading lady and a kind of underwhelming finale it's always felt more like an impressive episode of The Saint to me rather than one of the all time great Bond films that it's often referred to as.

  • Posts: 14,839
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't find that old lady with the machine gun in GF detrimental to the movie. Old women can be nasty and evil too.

    I’ve never heard anyone say anything negative about the character.

    I did read it was unnecessary silly.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2019 Posts: 6,791
    Not sure if this is controversial, but Cec Linder is by far my least liked Felix. Actually I quite like pretty much all of them. Cec, however,is too much of an anti-Jack Lord which makes him a bit of an old, useless bore to have around.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Not sure if this is controversial, but Cec Linder is by far my least liked Felix. Actually I quite like pretty much all of them. Cec, however,is too much of an anti-Jack Lord which makes him a bit of an old, useless bore to have around.
    He was playing Felix's uncle. Uncle Felix.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Not sure if this is controversial, but Cec Linder is by far my least liked Felix. Actually I quite like pretty much all of them. Cec, however,is too much of an anti-Jack Lord which makes him a bit of an old, useless bore to have around.

    He's definitely one of my least favorites. John Terry is probably at the bottom despite TLD being my #3 film.
  • Posts: 7,500
    This is probably not so controversial, but on the subject of Felixes, I think Jack Lord and Jeffrey Wright are both head and shoulders above the rest! The only two really satisfying portrayals of the character for me. The rest vary from quite forgettable to shamefully bland...
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    jobo wrote: »
    This is probably not so controversial, but on the subject of Felixes, I think Jack Lord and Jeffrey Wright are both head and shoulders above the rest! The only two really satisfying portrayals of the character for me. The rest vary from quite forgettable to shamefully bland...

    I'd add Nutter and Hedison to that list.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,791
    Jack Lord is my favourite with Rik Van Nutter coming in second. Though I have to admit that I have a soft spot for Bernie Casey too, one of the best things about NSNA. David Hedison and Jeffrey Wright complete the top 5. John Terry and Norman Burton would be next. Don’t think either of them are as bad as many claim. Last place would go to Cec Linder, the only Felix I did not like myself.
  • Posts: 14,839
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Not sure if this is controversial, but Cec Linder is by far my least liked Felix. Actually I quite like pretty much all of them. Cec, however,is too much of an anti-Jack Lord which makes him a bit of an old, useless bore to have around.

    I think it's pretty consensual around here.
  • edited April 2019 Posts: 17,295
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I take Cec over Terry or Van Nutter. Nutter looks the part but he comes off like a complete imbecile. Lord just plays it as a straight G-Man; basically the antithesis of Fleming’s Leiter.

    Can't help but love a Felix Leiter wearing cat-eye sunglasses. He's so cool!

    Jack-Lord-Felix-Leiter.jpg
  • Posts: 1,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Not sure if this is controversial, but Cec Linder is by far my least liked Felix. Actually I quite like pretty much all of them. Cec, however,is too much of an anti-Jack Lord which makes him a bit of an old, useless bore to have around.
    Completely agree. He's one of the factors - albeit a minor one - that prevents GF from being a top-notch Bond film for me. The scene of Linder in that goofy hat in the beginning reminds me of the one of Ted Knight in the pro shop in Caddyshack wearing a similar hat. Knight and Linder look very much alike, which doesn't help.

    Terry gets a lot of flack, but the guy isn't in TLD that long to make that much of an impression. I at least get the feeling he would be in the thick of the action with Bond and is a contemporary if necessary. Then again, the Felix character rarely is even in on the action with Bond, save for LTK and NSNA. He's too busy coordinating things or supporting Bond.

    The more I think about it the more I find Lord's Leiter somewhat overrated. Somebody commented he just seems like a G-man and that's a great description. He looks cool but is just a lot of talk and pretty colorless. If Jack Lord hadn't become Steve McGarrett of Hawaii 5-0 fame would anybody even remember him or his Leiter outside of Bond fans?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Rik Van Nutter still gets my vote.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Jack Lord is the top guy when it comes to Felix Leiter actors for me. Unsurpassed by a wide margin.

    As to who portrays the character close to Fleming's creation, that'd be Rik Van Nutter.

    As far as my rankings go:
    1. Jack Lord
    2. David Hedison
    3. Bernie Casey
    4. Jeffrey Wright
    5. Rik Van Nutter
    6. Cec Linder
    7. Norman Burton
    8. John Terry

    Did I forget anyone?
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