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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Spectre is only now seen as having been involved in the events of CR-SF because they got the Blofeld/Spectre rights back and Mendes wanted it to be that way come SP. Before that, Le Chiffre and Greene were part of QUANTUM and Silva was simply a rogue agent. Why would Blofeld lie about Spectre's involvement?

    I think I was making that very point - that the retconning is stupid.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.

    Agreed. I really enjoy it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2016 Posts: 11,189
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.

    I actually used to like it, but it's not stood the test of time IMO. It's certainly not the sort of song that would fit the end of a Bond film.

    I say that as someone that likes parts of the Serra score.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.

    It is also my favorite end credits song, not necesserily Bond like but simply a beautiful song. Also Goldeneye seems to be the only movie where it fits. LTK maybe too, i think that one would have worked as well. OHMSS and CR were to dark at the end, and Spectre was to casual. Needless to say that Connery's and Moores final scenes had little to do with love :D
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I don't think Quantum were a direct arm of Spectre. I think Spectre likely had members in all sorts of criminal organisations. Mr White and Green were probably the only Quantum members to even know if Spectre's existence. That's how I see it anyway, they have members in high ranking criminal organisations across the globe so they can manipulate said organisations from behind the scenes. It's been a while but isn't this stated in the novels too, that SPECTRE have members in the Triads, Mafia, etc?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    I don't think Quantum were a direct arm of Spectre. I think Spectre likely had members in all sorts of criminal organisations. Mr White and Green were probably the only Quantum members to even know if Spectre's existence. That's how I see it anyway, they have members in high ranking criminal organisations across the globe so they can manipulate said organisations from behind the scenes. It's been a while but isn't this stated in the novels too, that SPECTRE have members in the Triads, Mafia, etc?

    That is correct.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Here's probably my most controversial opinion - Dr No isn't that great. It's fallen out of my top ten now and I don't think it'll ever get back up there.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.

    The funniest thing I've read in a long time.

    The fact that you have other people agreeing that the musical equivalent of Rory Kinnear is good just goes to explain why the likes of Trump and IS have followers.

    There really are some worrying people out there.
    ForYourEyesOnly wrote: »
    Here's probably my most controversial opinion - Dr No isn't that great.

    Nah that's not really controversial mate. It's just wrong. DN gets better and better with age.

  • stun_harvestingstun_harvesting
    Posts: 337
    Licence to Kill comes in 24th for me. I'd imagine that among any collection of Bond fans that that'd be quite controversial.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    For me LTK is firmly slotted in the middle tier. Not a bad film, but lacks any real charm and elegance.
  • stun_harvestingstun_harvesting
    Posts: 337
    For me, Dalton came off as way too dour, and the attempts at humour (or whatever they were) were downright bad. I liked Sanchez but that was about it.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    To me Dalton comes off as too "dramatic". I can't help but feel that he THINKS his performance is going to blow the audience away.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.
    For the win. In terms of being a controversial point of view.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To me Dalton comes off as too "dramatic". I can't help but feel that he THINKS his performance is going to blow the audience away.

    i can't stop imagining this now :)
    i have to say even though i like Dalton overall, one aspect of his portrayal was very lacking to me, and that was the ladies man. He seems genuinly desinterested in women. Thats why i don't really understand why Fleming purists like him that much. Bond is mission driven, yes UNTIL the point he gets a pretty face in his sights, thats where his lower part of the brain takes over. He's just a guy who wants to enjoy his short life expectancy as much as he can. I never got that feeling from Dalton, he's just an obsessed man.
    Craig totally got that aspect right from the start.
    Dalton had to act probably pretty hard to convey it in the minimum he did.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Just speaking about the 'ladies man' aspect, I don't find Craig all that convincing either. I thought he was very convincing in CR, but that to me was more on account of superb script work and the incredible leading ladies he had to work with (Green & Murino did a lot of the heavy lifting in their scenes together and both were more than up to the task).

    Since then, I've found him strangely unconvincing & even unappealing in this respect. In fact, in SP, he even comes across downright creepy to me both in Sciarra's residence and also in the clinic when meeting Swan for the first time.

    Dalton couldn't sell it either, I agree. He just seemed uncomfortable rather than creepy.

    That's my controversial take.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    Extremely controversial opinion: The Experience of Love is beautiful.

    Listening to it right now actually.
    On its own, I really enjoy it.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    I like Pierce Brosnan
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    bondjames wrote: »
    Since then, I've found him strangely unconvincing & even unappealing in this respect. In fact, in SP, he even comes across downright creepy to me both in Sciarra's residence and also in the clinic when meeting Swan for the first time.

    That's my controversial take.

    i see what you mean, but with craig he is just extremely pushy and aggressive about it, he makes no secret about what he wants and he has no time for BS.
    With Dalton he wasn't even pushing, he wasn't trying at all. His Bond girls seemed to want him more than he wanted them
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    00Agent wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Since then, I've found him strangely unconvincing & even unappealing in this respect. In fact, in SP, he even comes across downright creepy to me both in Sciarra's residence and also in the clinic when meeting Swan for the first time.

    That's my controversial take.

    i see what you mean, but with craig he is just extremely pushy and aggressive about it, he makes no secret about what he wants and he has no time for BS.
    With Dalton he wasn't even pushing, he wasn't trying at all. His Bond girls seemed to want him more than he wanted them
    Fair point. I always found Dalton a little awkward with the ladies. It wasn't credible that they would throw themselves at him. Yes, that's my view on Craig too. Pushy in an aggressive manner imho. Again, not all that credible in my view, but in a different way.

    I don't think either actor is all that comfortable with that element of Bond, and that's why it comes off a little odd on screen.

    If you see some of the outtakes of Connery or Moore during their run, one can always find shots of them having a blast with their leading ladies and playing around. That comes across on screen too.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I like every Moore film and probably wouldn't have any in my bottom five.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    bondjames wrote: »

    If you see some of the outtakes of Connery or Moore during their run, one can always find shots of them having a blast with their leading ladies and playing around. That comes across on screen too.

    Absolutely, thats what i mean.
    Maybe Cubby should have gotten Dalton a Prostitue for his audition just to be sure.
    Same as they did with Lazenby :D
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To me Dalton comes off as too "dramatic".

    Agree with this.

    Compare the two scenes of Saunders death with him finding Felix and Della.

    The first is absolutely electric and probably Dalton's best moment as Bond the second is extremely hammy and the anguished howl of 'Della' really isn't good.

    Saunders is just a bloke he knows a bit but when he reads the note you can feel his rage and see it in his eyes.

    Felix and Della were close friends so I was expecting when he read the note to see fireworks that surpassed the TLD scene but it all just feels a bit flat.

    The scenes on the Wavekrest and the finale with Sanchez are the only bits where he really reaches the heights of his TLD performance for me.

    The stuff in the warehouse with Killifer and the scene with M just come across as being conspicuously 'acted' rather than natural.

    Mind you it still doesn't make LTK deserving of being bottom. It's solidly midtable.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    royale65 wrote: »
    I like Pierce Brosnan

    Shocking... positively shocking

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 14,824
    I'll add my own controversial statement about LTK in regard to what has been said above: LTK is not the character driven drama his fans sometimes claim it is and the drama is barely more than an excuse to get the plot in motion. That doesn't make the movie bad but it does make it average.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    The Living Daylights is incredibly overrated. It's an average Bond, with a overly complicated plot and two of the worst villains in franchise history. Dalton is good in the role, and his relationship with Kara is one of the best in the series, but the movie never really goes anywhere with his darker take on the character, unlike LTK or the Craig movies. The movie also spends far too much time in Afghanistan and slows to a crawl before the final battle. And some of the jokes are absolutely cringeworthy: who thought the sequence with Rosika Miklos was funny? Who thought the cello chase was a good idea?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,469
    TLD has grown on me a lot lately, and I've really enjoyed it with the last few viewings, even going out of my way to select it to watch by itself one night (something I rarely do with that movie), but I will agree, @Soundofthesinners, that there are some pretty weak villains in the movie; I love Necros, though he's a henchman.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'll add my own controversial statement about LTK in regard to what has been said above: LTK is not the character driven drama his fans sometimes claim it is and the drama is barely more than an excuse to get the plot in motion. That doesn't make the movie bad but it does make it average.

    I agree. It tries to be more character driven but the setup between Bond, Della, Felix and Sanchez feels very generic a lot of the time. Hedison's performance also ranges from good to pretty bad.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    bondjames wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Since then, I've found him strangely unconvincing & even unappealing in this respect. In fact, in SP, he even comes across downright creepy to me both in Sciarra's residence and also in the clinic when meeting Swan for the first time.

    That's my controversial take.

    i see what you mean, but with craig he is just extremely pushy and aggressive about it, he makes no secret about what he wants and he has no time for BS.
    With Dalton he wasn't even pushing, he wasn't trying at all. His Bond girls seemed to want him more than he wanted them
    Fair point. I always found Dalton a little awkward with the ladies. It wasn't credible that they would throw themselves at him. Yes, that's my view on Craig too. Pushy in an aggressive manner imho. Again, not all that credible in my view, but in a different way.

    I don't think either actor is all that comfortable with that element of Bond, and that's why it comes off a little odd on screen.

    If you see some of the outtakes of Connery or Moore during their run, one can always find shots of them having a blast with their leading ladies and playing around. That comes across on screen too.


    I think Criag got that aspect of Bond much better than Dalton. I didn't fijd Criag Oushy or Creepy at all its just that his seductions were more bussy hehe.
    All his seductions were very much in the style of what Connery did with the nurse in Thunderball or with Pussy Galore. Very controversial seduction moments but Still vert memomarble.

    I do belive Craig as a Ladies man Bond.
    The problem Dalton is a little difficult to explain. He is belivable that ladies like him and he likes woman but he is not belivable as a womanzier he is too much of a husband material for Bond he looks to much like a nice guy.

    The other Bonds reflected more that they could be with any woman in their way and enjoyed being with all the others.

    If I would rank the Bond actors as ladies man id go this way

    Pierce Brosnan
    Sean Connery
    Daniel Craig
    Roger Moore
    George Lazenby
    Timothy Dalton








  • josiahjosiah
    Posts: 1,386
    Szonana wrote: »
    The problem Dalton is a little difficult to explain. He is belivable that ladies like him and he likes woman but he is not belivable as a womanzier he is too much of a husband material for Bond.

    The other Bonds reflected more that they could be with any woman in their way and enjoyed being with all the others.
    @Szonana
    It's been a couple years since I read the Fleming novels (and anyone please feel free to step in & correct me if I'm wrong on this point) but I seem to recall Bond only really being interested in one woman per book (with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 of the 14 books). I agree 100% that Dalton is very different in this department and more of an old school romantic in a way than a womanizer, but I think that was part of his wanting to return to the novels (which will not be to everyone's taste), but I think that's why he is so different than the others. I've also heard the 80s AIDS epidemic may have had something to do with this. I have a difficult time ranking actors. I believe I tried to in one thread, but I really do enjoy them all.
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