Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    "Jinx is the worst Bond girl ever.

    And the award for least controversial comment ever made goes to @Gobi-1. And ironically it appears in a thread about controversial comments."

    Well, fair enough, some people think that Dr. Chrismas Jones, Stacey Sutton or Goodnight are even worse. So there is at least some controversy on that ..:-)
    Dr. (cough cough) Christmas Jones for the win in my opinion. A living disgrace. Richards couldn't even deliver her simpleton lines appropriately and with proper intonation.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited March 2016 Posts: 10,588
    Here's another one:
    While exiting the theatre after seeing Spectre the first time, I overheard one woman saying something along the lines of, "It was OK, the Bond movies never really have good stories." Following a casual eye roll I found myself debating on whether or not this is the general public opinion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    Here's another one:
    While exiting the theatre after seeing Spectre the first time, I overheard one woman saying something along the lines of, "It was OK, the Bond movies never really have good stories." Following a casual eye roll I found myself debating on whether or not this is the general public opinion.
    I know many hardcore on this forum will vehemently disagree, but that probably is more the general opinion than not.

    She was likely expressing it because of SP itself not hitting the mark for her (controversial on this forum no doubt as well).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    IMO I think a big portion of the general audience would have a hard time giving an exact description of the plot of most Bond films.
  • Posts: 3,336
    For Your Eyes Only has a very good score and song
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Here's another one:
    While exiting the theatre after seeing Spectre the first time, I overheard one woman saying something along the lines of, "It was OK, the Bond movies never really have good stories." Following a casual eye roll I found myself debating on whether or not this is the general public opinion.
    I know many hardcore on this forum will vehemently disagree, but that probably is more the general opinion than not.

    She was likely expressing it because of SP itself not hitting the mark for her (controversial on this forum no doubt as well).

    I would say this is fairly representative. The general public don't really go to see Bond for the story.
  • Posts: 9,771
    a few more controversial ones


    1. the following actors could/would make great 007's
    Sam Neill (in fact Mcllory should of gotten him to do never say never again)
    Adrian Paul
    James Brolin (American so what if he could do the accent he would of been fine)
    Peter Wingfield (yes I know grabbing two from highlander)
    Liam Neeson

    2. I prefer Craig in Goldeneye over Brosnan. sorry the ruthlessness of the film just doesn't work for me with Brosnan.

    3. Moore was able to be more believable a brutal and Dark then Brosnan

    4. If Craig for whatever reason doesn't come back Honestly I would want Liam Neeson as bond for 1 brutal revenge bond film taking place at the end of bond's career one final bond versus Blofeld match up and then discuss what happened between Spectre and Blofeld (bond 25) In the next few actor's tenures (doesn't get more controversial then that)

    5. as it stands now there is still plenty of Fleming to adapt

    6. From Russia with Love On Her majesties Secret Service For your eyes only Octopussy The living Daylights Licence to Kill Goldeneye The World is not Enough Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace are the bext spy thrillers in the bond cannon and are also my top 10 bond films

    7. Purivs and Wade do not get enough Credit

    8. Paul Haggis and Sam Mendes get too much credit

    9. Lazenby was ok in OHMSS.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,790
    For Your Eyes Only is the most forgettable Bond film of all.
    It's neither bad nor very good.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    Risico007 wrote: »
    a few more controversial ones


    1. the following actors could/would make great 007's
    Sam Neill

    That's almost too controversial for me.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,093
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    For Your Eyes Only is the most forgettable Bond film of all.
    It's neither bad nor very good.

    I agree with this.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Risico007 wrote: »
    3. Moore was able to be more believable a brutal and Dark then Brosnan

    9. Lazenby was ok in OHMSS.
    Agreed on both counts
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    bondjames wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    3. Moore was able to be more believable a brutal and Dark then Brosnan

    9. Lazenby was ok in OHMSS.
    Agreed on both counts

    3. Don't know why Brosnan should not be believable in that role. I only thought that the killing of some random goons (especially the maschine-gunning) was a little overused in his films. But both, Brosnan and Moore had some great coldblooded moments.

    9. Well, it depends on what "ok" means.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    3. Moore was able to be more believable a brutal and Dark then Brosnan

    9. Lazenby was ok in OHMSS.
    Agreed on both counts

    3. Don't know why Brosnan should not be believable in that role. I only thought that the killing of some random goons (especially the maschine-gunning) was a little overused in his films. But both, Brosnan and Moore had some great coldblooded moments.

    9. Well, it depends on what "ok" means.
    I can't speak for Risico007, but from my standpoint, Moore was more (pun intended) believable as a cold blooded killer than Brosnan ever was, particularly in TMWTGG, FYEO & the ending of TSWLM. I realize this is not the conventional view around these parts.

    Regarding Lazenby and 'ok', he is somewhat idolized here, and I personally think it's unwarranted. He was serviceable in a well above average film. Nothing more, nothing less.

    So both opinions are indeed controversial, and I happen to agree with them.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 4,325
    I agree Moore was better than Brosnan at doing cold blooded killer, as much as he played the light touch. Brosnan's scene with Renard in the bunker in TWINE is some of the worst acting of a Bond across the series in my opinion.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,195
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I agree Moore was better than Brosnan at doing cold blooded killer, as much as he played the light touch. Brosnan's scene with Renard in the bunker in TWINE is some of the worst acting of a Bond across the series in my opinion.

    But what about the killings of Ourumov, Dr. Kaufmann and Elektra? I have always thought that had been great sequences.
  • Posts: 4,325
    GBF wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I agree Moore was better than Brosnan at doing cold blooded killer, as much as he played the light touch. Brosnan's scene with Renard in the bunker in TWINE is some of the worst acting of a Bond across the series in my opinion.

    But what about the killings of Ourumov, Dr. Kaufmann and Elektra? I have always thought that had been great sequences.

    Point taken.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Re: Ouromov - not much acting required there. Just point and shoot

    Re: Kaufmann - agreed. That was good as was the buildup.

    Re: Elektra - controversial opinion here - I think that one is terribly overrated and overacted. Including typical necrophaliac kiss.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I used to hate Moore's darker moments because I found them really out of character and thought he never was very at ease in them but then I realized that's probably precisely the point.

    The sense of uncomfortableness is in line with the books. Fleming's Bond wasn't cold blooded. He hated killing and did it only when he was forced to. The only Bond actors I think that truly embody this are Dalton (my favourite Bond and the only one who really seemed to have a conscience, you got the sense that every kill weighed heavily on his mind), Craig in Casino Royale (the scene after the stairwell fight where he cleans the blood of himself and pauses to look at the mirror is so good, very reminiscent of the airport scene in Fleming's GF where Bond stares at his hands and comes to terms with how he killed a man with them the day before, which makes the shift towards the Bourne/Terminator archetype in QoS all the more disappointing) and Roger Moore.

    And as it for it being out of character, I still think that's true but I think that actually is what makes them so good. I realized that I didn't like seeing Moore's Bond in the darker moments (executing villains when he'd got all the info he needed, etc), because that's not who I thought he was. But that's exactly the point. That's why they work. The audience is enjoying Roger suavely quipping his way around the world, drinking, pulling, beating up henchmen then nonchalantly dusting himself off afterwards, just generally having a nice breezy adventure. But then the darker moments shock us because they remind us that this is still James Bond and James Bond is still an assassin, just a government sponsored one. His job is to kill people without a second thought. It's not all fun and games. The juxtaposition reminds us that Bond is far from a morally perfect character, he's an anti hero at best. Moore's darker moments are that much more effective because of how sophisticated, light hearted and gentlemanly he is normally. It makes them more shocking and perfectly demonstrates how cold Bond can be. It's actually more effective than if he's like that all the time.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I used to hate Moore's darker moments because I found them really out of character and thought he never was very at ease in them but then I realized that's probably precisely the point.

    The sense of uncomfortableness is in line with the books. Fleming's Bond wasn't cold blooded. He hated killing and did it only when he was forced to. The only Bond actors I think that truly embody this are Dalton (my favourite Bond and the only one who really seemed to have a conscience, you got the sense that every kill weighed heavily on his mind), Craig in Casino Royale (the scene after the stairwell fight where he cleans the blood of himself and pauses to look at the mirror is so good, very reminiscent of the airport scene in Fleming's GF where Bond stares at his hands and comes to terms with how he killed a man with them the day before, which makes the shift towards the Bourne/Terminator archetype in QoS all the more disappointing) and Roger Moore.

    And as it for it being out of character, I still think that's true but I think that actually is what makes them so good. I realized that I didn't like seeing Moore's Bond in the darker moments (executing villains when he'd got all the info he needed, etc), because that's not who I thought he was. But that's exactly the point. That's why they work. The audience is enjoying Roger suavely quipping his way around the world, drinking, pulling, beating up henchmen then nonchalantly dusting himself off afterwards, just generally having a nice breezy adventure. But then the darker moments shock us because they remind us that this is still James Bond and James Bond is still an assassin, just a government sponsored one. His job is to kill people without a second thought. It's not all fun and games. The juxtaposition reminds us that Bond is far from a morally perfect character, he's an anti hero at best. Moore's darker moments are that much more effective because of how sophisticated, light hearted and gentlemanly he is normally. It makes them more shocking and perfectly demonstrates how cold Bond can be. It's actually more effective than if he's like that all the time.

    I agree with everything you've said.

    This is why I think Moore is a vastly underrated Bond around these parts.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Remember the Quail hunt in MR?
    You missed Mr. Bond.
    Did I really?
    And Drax knew that 007 was to be eliminated as soon as possible. Bond was more dangerous than he looked.
  • Posts: 14,836
    Gobi-1 wrote: »
    Timothy Dalton was a placeholder for Pierce Brosnan. The pretitle sequence to GolenEye is better then The Living Daylights and Licence to Kill combined.

    Thunderball is Connery's worst film.

    Quantum of Solace is underrated.

    Writing's On the Wall is a good song.

    The Aston Martin Vanish is one of the highlights of Die Another Day.

    Jinx is the worst Bond girl ever.

    It won an Oscar, so I don't think saying it is a good song is controversial.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,486
    Winning an Oscar and something being good are not synonymous in this day and age. Saying WOTW is a good song on these forums is pretty controversial in that the overall consensus on the boards seemed to lean towards the negative side of things and how bad of a song it was.
  • Posts: 14,836
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Winning an Oscar and something being good are not synonymous in this day and age. Saying WOTW is a good song on these forums is pretty controversial in that the overall consensus on the boards seemed to lean towards the negative side of things and how bad of a song it was.

    On these forums maybe, but even here is it disliked overall? In any case, the Oscar shows some recognition that I think prevent positive opinion for truly being controversial.

    For the record, I think it's a great song, but Sam Smith should have let someone else sing it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @Ludovico, do you think the lyrics are great? I found them extremely confusing as they pour cold water on arguments that Bond didn't 'love' Swann. Rather, they seem to suggest that his heart was melting for her, which is at odds with how Craig plays it during SP. One wonders if there may have been some changes in the concept during all the script revisions. Or whether Smith just completely misunderstood what he read (since he based the song off the script apparently).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Winning an Oscar and something being good are not synonymous in this day and age. Saying WOTW is a good song on these forums is pretty controversial in that the overall consensus on the boards seemed to lean towards the negative side of things and how bad of a song it was.

    On these forums maybe, but even here is it disliked overall? In any case, the Oscar shows some recognition that I think prevent positive opinion for truly being controversial.

    For the record, I think it's a great song, but Sam Smith should have let someone else sing it.

    In the social media the song got ripped apart. For whatever reasons, I won't comment again on that.

    But in the "real" world the song was and still is a huge success in the charts. If it has sold that many units (and streamed) it is generally liked.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,486
    I didn't hear the song until I heard it attached to SP for the first time, but in that month leading up to the release when the song's unveiling was a big talking point, I recall a great deal of people having pretty big complaints with it.
  • Posts: 14,836
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, do you think the lyrics are great? I found them extremely confusing as they pour cold water on arguments that Bond didn't 'love' Swann. Rather, they seem to suggest that his heart was melting for her, which is at odds with how Craig plays it during SP. One wonders if there may have been some changes in the concept during all the script revisions. Or whether Smith just completely misunderstood what he read (since he based the song off the script apparently).

    Great might be too generous, but I found them beautifully ominous. And the lyrics of a song does not have to fit 100% a story.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, do you think the lyrics are great? I found them extremely confusing as they pour cold water on arguments that Bond didn't 'love' Swann. Rather, they seem to suggest that his heart was melting for her, which is at odds with how Craig plays it during SP. One wonders if there may have been some changes in the concept during all the script revisions. Or whether Smith just completely misunderstood what he read (since he based the song off the script apparently).

    Great might be too generous, but I found them beautifully ominous. And the lyrics of a song does not have to fit 100% a story.

    Yes exactly, someone tell me how the lyrics of AVTAK or TLD or TB or YOLT or DAD or AWTD have anything to do with those films...
  • For Your Eyes Only has a very good score and song

    This comment here was ignored. And it is very controversial, though I would agree that the song is good and the score is good to listen to but not fitting for the film.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The song was fitting and the PTS sort of segued well into it. The score is just bizzare - it has its ups and downs. I'm one of those who enjoyed the screaming disco soundtrack in the gunbarrel/PTS and the theme during the ski chase. I also really liked the instrumental version of the theme song during the underwater sequence. The rest of the score was forgettable to me.
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