The Future of Sex in the Bond films

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  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,929
    Yes, the gaze was definitely on Bond rather than Solange in the first beach scene in CR. Pity...
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,697
    But not while having sex with Bond, but while strangling the Canadian colonel between her thighs...or am I remembering that wrong? Not my idea of "sex in the Bond films".
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,733
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    But not while having sex with Bond, but while strangling the Canadian colonel between her thighs...or am I remembering that wrong? Not my idea of "sex in the Bond films".

    Canadian colonel?

    Are you by any chance talking about...

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    Note: I didn't make the third image, that, that... masterpiece that equals the Sistine Chapel in divine beauty.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,961
    Funnily enough, Billy J Mitchell who played the Chuck Farrell in GoldenEye, played a character in the movie Top Secret who also died in the middle of a shag. Slightly odd career coincidence there.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,697
    I'll have to re-watch "Top Secret".
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,733
    Was there a kinky recurring theme in the Mitchell filmography?

    -What's new, Janet?
    -Well, Billy Jay, they've offered you the lead role in a West End production of Hamlet. Sounds like a great role!
    -Does he die in the middle of a shag?
    -Well, no, but...
    -Then it's crap! Turn it down!

    I don't know what I'm waiting for to start the Billy J. Mitchell fan thread. Sounds like a great idea.

    Except for the fact I'm his only fan.

    Well at least I could start a Billy J. Mitchell-thon and post my reviews of his films and performances in the movie thread.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,697
    Go ahead. I wasn't even aware of who played the "Colonel" before now, so I couldn't comment on Billy J. Mitchell.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,034
    That's Canadian ADMIRAL to you guys!

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  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I'll have to re-watch "Top Secret".

    Me too! Watched it loads of times but never spotted that!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,551
    That's Canadian ADMIRAL to you guys!

    moYySqO.jpg

    I like a member who enjoys pulling rank.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,697
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That's Canadian ADMIRAL to you guys!

    moYySqO.jpg

    I like a member who enjoys pulling rank.

    Yes, really ADMIRAbLe.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    For your thighs only.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,929
    Famke Janssen in 1995 - what a way to go...
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 203
    echo wrote: »
    JustJames wrote: »
    There’s at least one orgasm in Amelie, and Fallen Angels, and none in Bond.

    Onnatop.

    Does she ever get to finish it though?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,733
    Venutius wrote: »
    Famke Janssen in 1995 - what a way to go...

    Fun fact: Billy J. Mitchell didn't pass away in 1999, but in 1995, crushed between Famke Janssen's thighs. To avoid a potentially embarrassing situation, this information was concealed from the press, and only in 1999 they were told he had passed away that same year. Several fake roles were invented to make it seem as if he had continued to work after GoldenEye. But he didn't need to. He had fulfilled humankind's maximum potential. Gotten onatopp of Mount Everest. He had crushed it, or rather, had been crushed.

    And he left with a smile on his face. I salute you, Billy Jay!

    And thanks Famke for making it all possible! (P.S. Call me let's talk some more about this whole thighs situation.)
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Not a red herring
    edited June 2023 Posts: 565
    The expression on Bond's face when he finds the body says it all. He is indeed looking at the face of a man who has ascended to the peak of human experience. Few of us can aspire to the same, but we can dare to dream. Godspeed Billy Jay.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2023 Posts: 2,929
    Pretty sure I had several dreams about Famke back in the day. Well, I say 'dreams'...
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    Billy J Mitchell is ascending to the ranks of Lenny Rabin and Ed Bishop. And rightfully so.
    He's appeared in films opposite three different Bond actors, Sean Connery, Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan.
    He's appeared in two different Bond films, Never Say Never Again and GoldenEye.
    He's appeared in many film and tv roles, in particular the Superman, Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchises.
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    Billy J, we salute you.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,977
    Sex is a part of the Bond formula. A Bond movie without it seems weird. TLD came the closest to not having any sex featured all off camera. Again due to the AIDS pandemic it was felt that Bond shagging multiple partners wouldn't be a good idea. I would say Brosnan's Bond was the last one who engaged in flirtation and dialed the sex back up. I didn't appreciate them shoe horning Wai Lin and Bond having a smooch at the end of the film as there really hadn't been a hint of attraction between the two.

    Picking up on another idea a few pages back, smoking in the films would change the rating here in Canada. I believe it is an automatic PG-13 for the film if smoking is featured. There may also need to be a disclaimer in the credits? I remember when Rango was released a number of years ago, some felt that having a character in an animated film marketed to children wasn't cool and I believe the film ended up being rated PG-13.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 1,518
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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,551
    Interesting point, @CrabKey. I think they're going to go after Bond, no matter what. He's big and famous for his appetite in women. Some groups cannot let that pass. I, for one, hate those groups. They are quite good at spoiling the fun for us all. :-)

    While I don't think Bond is defined by his sex drive, I don't want him entering celibacy either. He's probably not going to 'blackmail' a nurse into some serious doing-it in the sauna anymore -- and isn't that a good thing, frankly? -- but I hope he can still tell a widow that her late husband was a fool for not paying more attention to her before making love to her.
  • Posts: 705
    They need a very good looking and sexy guy to sell this.
  • Posts: 2,901
    It’s a bit like Bond’s drinking in recent films. I suspect we’ll see two sides of it. On the one hand both these vices are a part of the character and point to a man who is under the presumption he won’t live into old age, so indulges where he can. A sort of ‘live for the day’ type thing which can be quite fun (so long as we don’t drift too far into blackmailing nurses or tricking women with a fake deck of cards territory).

    On the other hand, to ignore the character’s faults in this area would be disingenuous too. The Craig era showed that when some women got too close to Bond (and indeed Bond slept with them in order to gain something) it led to their deaths. It’s a bit of a well worn trope, but an acknowledgment of how Bond uses sex in his profession and the consequences even of ‘getting too close’ to him should be acknowledged.
  • edited April 18 Posts: 1,518
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  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    The introduction of the pill for birth control in the early sixties; emergent feminism; women in the workplace and much more all contributed to changing attitudes (more liberal) towards sexuality coincident with the start of the Bond films.

    The whole idea of no-consequence sex (and without moral judgement) became a crucial aspect of the Bond films' appeal. From the very beginning sex was something not to be taken seriously as anything but enjoyable for its own sake, and which very importantly is seen to be enjoyed by women (cf. Sylvia Trench) as much as by men.

    It was a conceit present in the very advertising for Bond himself ('Every man wants to be him/Every woman wants to have him'). It was a fanciful notion, this fantasy sex, recognized by contemporary audiences as simultaneously attractive and a little ridiculous, but not to be taken too seriously.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited March 1 Posts: 8,505
    I think the notion of sex in Bond films is the least of the worries in the upcoming era.

    Stick with what they started in the Brozz era, that improved mightily in the Craig years: write strong female characters like Natalya, the concept behind Mrs Carver and Elektra, Vesper, Camille, Mrs. Sciarra, Madeleine...

    Cast the best women for these roles...

    Write the sexual dynamic with respect.

    If women aggressively pursue Bond for their pleasure, great! This is happening across major cities as I write this.

    And if Bond desires a woman, have her be an active participant. That's all.

    Write these scenes with a heightened sense of adult playtime, have it be fun and sexy, with simple actions between Bond and the love interest showing this is clearly a consensual transaction.

    If anyone feels the need to complain at that point, the filmmakers and others will shrug, knowing we can't please everyone.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 1 Posts: 5,869
    100% @peter

    For example, I think the infamously controversial shower scene in Skyfall could've been solved if they added just a little scene on the boat before the shower scene where Bond reveals he's aboard and then we get the opportunity to see Severine have more of an active part in that sexual dynamic and her pursuing him - maybe even leading him to the shower at the end of the scene - so it feels less like Bond just assumed he could have sex with this woman who has a difficult past involving the Macau sex trade. I understand time constraints and all that but a two-three minute scene, if that, where there's more active flirting on Severine's part would've been nothing in the grand scheme of things.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,505
    Denbigh wrote: »
    100% @peter

    For example, I think the infamously controversial shower scene in Skyfall could've been solved if they added just a little scene on the boat before the shower scene where Bond reveals he's aboard and then we get the opportunity to see Severine have more of an active part in that sexual dynamic and her pursuing him - maybe even leading him to the shower at the end of the scene - so it feels less like Bond just assumed he could have sex with this woman who has a difficult past involving the Macau sex trade. I understand time constraints and all that but a two-three minute scene, if that, where there's more active flirting on Severine's part would've been nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    I love this scene, but I get your point 💯%!

    I do think Mendes tried to show this via imagery vs dialogue: the camera pans across an ice bucket of champagne and two glasses.

    Although the sex trade history is twisted, I think it's clear Severine wanted Silva dead and she was going to use her body as a transaction so Bond would make good on his word (can he kill Silva? He answers: yes (no pausing, 😂!)...

    But, I do see your point, fully.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, I get you, especially what you mention about Silva, no matter what way you spin a character like that, you end up coming to those same conclusions I think. I also don't have a huge issue with the scene as is to be honest, these are just what I think could've been done in response to what I know was a real problem for some more casual viewers.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,505
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Yeah, I get you, especially what you mention about Silva, no matter what way you spin a character like that, you end up coming to those same conclusions I think. I also don't have a huge issue with the scene as is to be honest, these are just what I think could've been done in response to what I know was a real problem for some more casual viewers.

    Absolutely. I have read what some of our members thought and I you’re absolutely right: a scene could have been slipped in just to show a little more of Severine willfully “giving “ herself to Bond.

    But I really love that entire sequence from entering the Casino, Severine on the staircase, the discussion of buying a drink, to their deadly conversation about killing her “employer” (I wasn’t a fan of the fight— I get it’s a little bit of comedy, but I’d have rather have seen a more grounded punch up), and I love how Bond enters the shower (it’s uncomfortable, but I love it!).
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