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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 21 Posts: 19,159
    Heh! Fair point, got a bit turned around there :D

    Interesting Mazda were doing it that long ago though, back to the late 80s/early 90s. I think it was a bit more of a passive mechanical system than today’s maybe.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,179
    mtm wrote: »
    I think quite a few cars have used it over the years, moreso recently because I guess the tech has become more affordable.

    Well, I don't know about any production car that has it right now. But I'm happy to be enlightened.

    As an auto journo, I promise it's been on higher end cars for years. Currently a few Porsche products, I think the new Lotus EVs, but yes many new cars have the tech and it's really very cool and useful.

    If you can't reckon that modern technology has made cars safer as more vehicles join the road, then you should be able to get over it. Many new cars will get a "dumb" button to easily turn off many of the lane-keep and steering assist controls, but that's up to the company.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,929
    LucknFate wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think quite a few cars have used it over the years, moreso recently because I guess the tech has become more affordable.

    Well, I don't know about any production car that has it right now. But I'm happy to be enlightened.

    As an auto journo, I promise it's been on higher end cars for years. Currently a few Porsche products, I think the new Lotus EVs, but yes many new cars have the tech and it's really very cool and useful.

    If you can't reckon that modern technology has made cars safer as more vehicles join the road, then you should be able to get over it. Many new cars will get a "dumb" button to easily turn off many of the lane-keep and steering assist controls, but that's up to the company.

    Thanks for the elaboration (also thanks @mtm ).
    I'm not sure all 'safety features' are actually making driving safer. I always turn lane assist off, as it has a habit of interfering with my driving. i.e. when I intent to overtake, it pushes back. Which is far from safe.
    I think all efforts to solve problems with technology is making the drivers more unsafe. An interesting documentary that gives you the same idea is on netflix, about the Thunderbirds, the US Air Force demo team. Due to some accidents in the past the team had made the space between the planes larger. Their new captain decided that was the wrong course of action, and let them fly closer together again. Because only in that way would he ensure all pilots had 100% of their attention on flying.
    Cruise control, lane assist, frontal collision detection, etc. etc. are all technologies that give the driver a false sense of security, to which many respond by not payin attention, and getting back on their phone. Hence the need for more technology. It ends with self-driving cars. And that, indeed, ends the joy and freedom of self-driving. How much fun is driving through the countryside in a convertible if you're not driving yourself at all?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,159
    Not everyone drives for fun though. I enjoy the sensation as well, but for lots of people it’s simply a means to an end.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,179
    Statistically, cars have gotten safer and more new cars score higher on independent crash tests than ever before. In a world with cell phones I think any of these assistance features are going to be necessary for the masses. Maybe even required installed breathalyzers one day.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,159
    Yeah people complained about seat belts being too much back in the day and they’ve saved an awful lot of lives.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,471
    The more driving-assist technology goes into a car, the greater the likelihood of technical failures. No one can open the bonnett of a modern car and figure out what's wrong with it without some sort of electronic diagnosis system. I say, keep your old cars in good shape and keep driving them for as long as possible.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,392
    zebrafish wrote: »
    ... I say, keep your old cars in good shape and keep driving them for as long as possible
    ...just remember that you may not have airbags, side-impact protection, ABS etc. just in case you do crash it, or some idiot does. (Disclaimer: We still have that 17-year old BMW which already has those features, but its predecessor, a 1992 MX-5, had none of the above, which was part of the reason we sold that one after 16 years.)
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,179
    zebrafish wrote: »
    The more driving-assist technology goes into a car, the greater the likelihood of technical failures. No one can open the bonnett of a modern car and figure out what's wrong with it without some sort of electronic diagnosis system. I say, keep your old cars in good shape and keep driving them for as long as possible.

    Do you work on your own dishwasher? Clothes machines? House electrical box? Septic system? No, you call a specialist. Modern cars aren't worse for being safer, and many can be just as fun to drive. Considering hundreds of millions of cars on the road do just fine most of the time, reliability for a machine with thousands of moving parts at high temperatures, modern stuff is frankly incredible.

    Not to say I don't also support sustaining what's come before with classics, which I very much do support.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,929
    mtm wrote: »
    Not everyone drives for fun though. I enjoy the sensation as well, but for lots of people it’s simply a means to an end.

    true. But the problem is, cars are made for the masses and thus most affordable cars are more and more autonomous, taking away from the joy of driving. In 50 years you'll have to be rich (or own an oldtimer) to be able to drive yourself.

    And yes, up until now, safety features have saved countless lives (allthough I don't think lane-assist saved anyone, other than those who were doing something else behind the wheel than they should be doing) and in general I appreciate their existence. I'm just not too happy about the self-inflicting necessaty.
    It's the modern day and age and as inevitable as driving electric, just as much as steam trains have been replaced by electric or dieselelectric ones, and radial props have gone out of fashion beeing replaced by jets and turboprops, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't stay critical of the side effects.

    If we wanted safer, we should stay away from SUV's, but the opposite is happening, even in Europe where roads are generally old and town streets too small for big cars.

    So we're compensating with technology for ego-extentions and the inability of people to understand the danger of what they're doing, for taking their responsibility serious.

    I'm not quite sure that's the right way foreward. I'd love it if there were manufacturers who'd go a different direction. But with even Alfa coming up with a rather dull 'junior', i'm afraid real enjoyable cars will be spread thinly in the future.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 22 Posts: 19,159
    mtm wrote: »
    Not everyone drives for fun though. I enjoy the sensation as well, but for lots of people it’s simply a means to an end.

    true. But the problem is, cars are made for the masses and thus most affordable cars are more and more autonomous, taking away from the joy of driving. In 50 years you'll have to be rich (or own an oldtimer) to be able to drive yourself.

    Sure, but that's probably a minority interest. Regardless, the likes of Porsche and Ferrari aren't going anywhere, and there doesn't seem to be a lack in sporty models lower down the chain.
    And yes, up until now, safety features have saved countless lives (allthough I don't think lane-assist saved anyone, other than those who were doing something else behind the wheel than they should be doing) and in general I appreciate their existence. I'm just not too happy about the self-inflicting necessaty.

    Chances are it has saved quite a few people, including in cars with dodgy blind spots. And if some of those people are doing something they shouldn't, it doesn't mean they -and the people they crash into- deserve to have a dangerous accident.
    If we wanted safer, we should stay away from SUV's, but the opposite is happening, even in Europe where roads are generally old and town streets too small for big cars.

    I don't like SUVs either, but they are safer for the occupants. That's a big reason why people buy them: they feel safer in them.
    So we're compensating with technology for ego-extentions and the inability of people to understand the danger of what they're doing, for taking their responsibility serious.

    Tsk, kids today, eh? :D
    To be fair, the counterpoint might well be that we need fewer cars which are fun to drive and encourage fast driving, as that's clearly a source of accidents.
    I like fun cars too, but I really don't think that a bit of added safety features means that they're going anywhere. Quite a lot of safety features over the years have come from performance cars which then trickles down. Making cars safer is not a bad thing.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,471
    Looking at the accident statistics (in the U.S.), most fatal accidents happen with light trucks (25 K) compared to passenger cars (18 K). I am not aware that many light trucks are equipped with safety features such as a lane- and blind-spot assistant. To me, that would be a priority.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited September 22 Posts: 2,179
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Looking at the accident statistics (in the U.S.), most fatal accidents happen with light trucks (25 K) compared to passenger cars (18 K). I am not aware that many light trucks are equipped with safety features such as a lane- and blind-spot assistant. To me, that would be a priority.

    Every modern light vehicle including pickup trucks have the same safety standards regards braking and steering. Most modern trucks are rather well equipped and do come with the same safety tech. My dad's 2024 F-150 has hands-free driving and lane change ability on the highway. This thread is full of people either thinking 15 years in the past or just unwilling to Google the basics of their concerns. Please try harder
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,159
    The US has absolutely appalling road safety statistics compared to the rest of the world, they really need to do something. I've heard the driving test is pretty perfunctory for starters.
    I guess not killing people on roads is 'woke' or something(!)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,929
    mtm wrote: »
    The US has absolutely appalling road safety statistics compared to the rest of the world, they really need to do something. I've heard the driving test is pretty perfunctory for starters.
    I guess not killing people on roads is 'woke' or something(!)

    That's my main point - driving becomes more safe drivers are actually driving, and for the US - if they actually learned to drive. There's a reason why in Germany (and most other European countries) teaching is done by certified instructors, not by parents or other family members.
    And yes, SUV's are safer for the occupants - in an accident. But they're more likely to end up in one as they're far heavier and higher, which makes avoideing a crash far more difficult. And that's definately not safer for everyone around.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,392
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Looking at the accident statistics (in the U.S.), most fatal accidents happen with light trucks (25 K) compared to passenger cars (18 K). I am not aware that many light trucks are equipped with safety features such as a lane- and blind-spot assistant. To me, that would be a priority.
    Part of those statistics is due to the fact that those light trucks are possibly more numerous in the U.S. than normal passenger cars. The Ford F-150 has been the best-selling vehicle in the States for decades, always before any normal passenger car. Adding to those the Chevy, GMC and RAM trucks (and a few others), I find it likely that their sheer number accounts for their share of fatal accidents. Plus, I'm guessing that a higher percentage of pickup drivers just don't give a shit about wearing seat belts than those driving regular family cars.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,471
    LucknFate wrote: »
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Looking at the accident statistics (in the U.S.), most fatal accidents happen with light trucks (25 K) compared to passenger cars (18 K). I am not aware that many light trucks are equipped with safety features such as a lane- and blind-spot assistant. To me, that would be a priority.

    Every modern light vehicle including pickup trucks have the same safety standards regards braking and steering. Most modern trucks are rather well equipped and do come with the same safety tech. My dad's 2024 F-150 has hands-free driving and lane change ability on the highway. This thread is full of people either thinking 15 years in the past or just unwilling to Google the basics of their concerns. Please try harder

    I was thinking of delivery trucks and small white mini vans, the heart of small companies and delivery services. Their drivers are usually in a hurry, more often on the road than most people, and abundant everywhere. I do not know if these vehicles are predominantly ordered with all safety features (unless they come as standard), but I know that they can be among the fastest driving cars on the autobahn, pressuring you to leave the left lane at 150-160 km/h.
    But I agree (and did my research), the Ford Transit comes with pre-collision and lane assistants - point taken.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,749
    Mustang Dark Horse CS800DH

    Looks like a Mad Max car.

    New Quad-Turbo V12, 2127bhp, £2.5m Italian Hypercar!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,929
    That 🐎 is insane. Can't help but like it.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,817
    Bumped into this on YT and it made me smile from ear to ear. That noise, just... wow :)

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