NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,037
    @jetsetwilly

    For me - it has been all downhill since CR, and I really want Craig to leave on a high note. Arnold's that is. And yes I think that the director, editor(s) and DOP are given too much creative control. Broccoli would never have allowed that awful color grade in large parts of SP, for example or the confusing blink-and-you-missed it editing from QoS.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Zekidk wrote: »
    SJK91 wrote: »
    While I am not anything close to a musician myself, I find that I am quite passionate about film scores.
    (...)
    I always thought David Arnold did solid work, but as some of you have mentioned, he never created truly classic cues. Some of his action work is a good listen, but I find his much of his slower paced music (particularly the romantic cues) a bit dull.

    Dull, you say? Why do many of us love Arnold? Because of cues like these:





    Great examples of Arnold at his peak. Sure, Arnold would go off tangent with techno stuff at times, but to me, these clips stand shoulder to shoulder with Barry's best scores, and shows he could fill Barry's big shoes.

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    Can't say I agree they are shoulder to shoulder to Barry. That bit of the DAD score is a direct lift from YOLT.

    But there are some genuinely original themes in there and the scores generally improve the films (not hard in some cases) rather than detracting from them.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    I think the best stuff Arnold did was when he didn’t riff Barry, such as that electronic music when breaking into Carver’s building in Hamburg to find the decoder. Part of why I think QOS is his best is that he didn’t fall back on the Bond theme the way he used to in the Brosnan era. Even Barry didn’t overuse the theme so much during his time.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Zekidk wrote: »
    SJK91 wrote: »
    While I am not anything close to a musician myself, I find that I am quite passionate about film scores.
    (...)
    I always thought David Arnold did solid work, but as some of you have mentioned, he never created truly classic cues. Some of his action work is a good listen, but I find his much of his slower paced music (particularly the romantic cues) a bit dull.

    Dull, you say? Why do many of us love Arnold? Because of cues like these:





    This is a fair retort. The following is all personal preference:

    - I find the Paris & Bond track from TND to be a little overly mushy in the middle, almost as if it's trying too hard to be INCREDIBLY ROMANTIC with those massive sweeping strings. Compare this to the romantic cues in Octopussy, A View to a Kill or The Living Daylights - all of which I find superior and more effective.

    - Love the first 30 seconds of the DAD track, though it does borrow from You Only Live Twice around 25 second mark, no? Perhaps it also just reminds me of the terrible dialog Brosnan and Berry share in that scene.

    - I love Casino Royale, it's my favorite Bond film. But the provided track never did much for me when I listen to it on its lonesome. Works well in the film, though.

    - Night at the Opera is indeed an excellent track, perhaps the best track in the entire QOS score. One of the best tracks Arnold has ever done for Bond.

    For me, it's not a hard and fast rule that all of Arnold's action cues are gold and all of his other work is dull - far from it. It's just that I find myself listening to his more energetic cues more often than his others.

    With all that being said, if Arnold had come back to score Bond 25, I'd be more happy than not.
  • Posts: 10,536


    Obviously, the real best track in Bond history :))

    In all seriousness though, there are tracks off GoldenEye that I really enjoy like the overture or Whispering Statues.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,037
    Getafix wrote: »
    Can't say I agree they are shoulder to shoulder to Barry.
    I really don't get this. Arnold used an orchestra and sounded like Barry hence he was unoriginal? That's like arguing that every grungeband in the 90's were copying the 80's heavy metal bands, because they all used drums and electric guitars.

    For me, I would much rather listen to the TND or CR OST, than the OST from OP or AVTAK where Barry most certainly overused the Bond theme (he redeemed himself with TLD).
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,422
    Very disappointed that Arnold hasn't got the gig, but as time went on it was looking more and more unlikely. Probably in the minority but i didn't mind Newman's scores although i think they work better with the films than on their own.

    Arnold's last two Bond scores were IMO fantastic soundtracks, and it seemed to me he was just getting better and better before Mendes brought his own composer in. 'You Know My Name' is one of my favourite Bond songs and whenever i hear it it never fails to give me goosebumps!

    Never heard of this new chap Romer and to be fair the stuff members have been posting on here isn't exactly filling me with confidence. But i'll wait until the finished product before passing judgement.
  • Posts: 3,924
    Im happy to give Romer a chance, but every track of his I’ve sampled sounds like Tangerine Dream. Is there a track of his that is upbeat or actionish?
  • Posts: 2,372
    Zekidk wrote: »
    @jetsetwilly

    For me - it has been all downhill since CR, and I really want Craig to leave on a high note. Arnold's that is. And yes I think that the director, editor(s) and DOP are given too much creative control. Broccoli would never have allowed that awful color grade in large parts of SP, for example or the confusing blink-and-you-missed it editing from QoS.

    Totally agree with everything you said there, pal. SP colour was indeed awful, as was the Bourne style editing in QoS.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,729
    Éric Serra was hired on Goldeneye because Luc Besson was at a popularity peak in the early nineties, with La Femme Nikita and The Professional which influenced many thrillers. They also took Tchéky Karyo in the cast, and a few months later the first Mission: Impossible had Jean Reno as one of the bad guys.
    And his score is a big misfire to my ears. It is quite a relief when they use another composer for the tank chase in Moscow.

    For what it’s worth, Serra got the gig back in ‘95 because John Barry recommended him to EON based on his synth score for LEON: THE PROFESSIONAL.

  • Posts: 3,133

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 2,372
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.
  • Posts: 40
    Count me among the many not happy with Arnold not getting a job. Yes I know it has been over a decade since he has done Bond but this new guy does not fill me with confidence.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.

    On the contrary, Nolan has been in talks with them as far back as SPECTRE. Word is he’s only interested when the time comes for a new actor to take the part, so he can kickstart that tenure like Martin Campbell has for Brosnan and Craig.
  • Posts: 2,372
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.

    On the contrary, Nolan has been in talks with them as far back as SPECTRE. Word is he’s only interested when the time comes for a new actor to take the part, so he can kickstart that tenure like Martin Campbell has for Brosnan and Craig.

    I really hope that is true.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,133
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.

    On the contrary, Nolan has been in talks with them as far back as SPECTRE. Word is he’s only interested when the time comes for a new actor to take the part, so he can kickstart that tenure like Martin Campbell has for Brosnan and Craig.

    Not only that, it'd also be a question of business because of Nolan and his production company's deals with Warner Bros. If he were ever to direct, WB would have to take over distribution. Creative control aside, for EON to get Nolan it may be more hassle than it's actually worth.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,729
    antovolk wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.

    On the contrary, Nolan has been in talks with them as far back as SPECTRE. Word is he’s only interested when the time comes for a new actor to take the part, so he can kickstart that tenure like Martin Campbell has for Brosnan and Craig.

    Not only that, it'd also be a question of business because of Nolan and his production company's deals with Warner Bros. If he were ever to direct, WB would have to take over distribution.

    It’ll be interesting to see what deal is made. Maybe a similar one EON has with Universal? But I’m sure no one is going to say “no” to EON and Nolan wanting to make a Bond film. Nolan certainly has the clout to get that gig.


    Then I’d finally get my Zimmer Bond score!
  • Posts: 154
    Cary has said in an interview that he is a fan of tradition, so I'd expect the score to reflect this. A modern take on the classic theme? Also encouraged by the fact that Romer is a songwriter. Hopefully we'll get a theme song composed by Romer.
  • Posts: 3,133
    antovolk wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »

    I am still very annoyed he hasn't been picked to come back for Craig's final outing. Babs is bending too much to the whim of any new director she recruits. Are you telling me a director would walk away from the film if they were told Arnold will be doing the score?

    It's just a clear change of approach as soon as they got Mendes - letting bigger-name and more auteur directors lead the way and have more of their own personal stamp on the respective films, rather than being just a journeyman cog in the machine. That's how the likes of Boyle or Villeneuve were ever in conversations for this film in the first place.

    And yet waiting in the wings, we have the best action director of his generation (Chris Nolan) who loves Bond, but hasn't been asked to direct a Bond film. Instead, Babs wants to entertain conversations with art-house directors, while Nolan has to go off to direct his own spy movie.

    Like I said before, Babs time is done with the franchise. She needs to move on rapidly.

    On the contrary, Nolan has been in talks with them as far back as SPECTRE. Word is he’s only interested when the time comes for a new actor to take the part, so he can kickstart that tenure like Martin Campbell has for Brosnan and Craig.

    Not only that, it'd also be a question of business because of Nolan and his production company's deals with Warner Bros. If he were ever to direct, WB would have to take over distribution.

    It’ll be interesting to see what deal is made. Maybe a similar one EON has with Universal? But I’m sure no one is going to say “no” to EON and Nolan wanting to make a Bond film. Nolan certainly has the clout to get that gig.

    In this scenario I'd imagine it being like that and, to use a Nolan example, Interstellar. That was originally set up at Paramount with Steven Spielberg to direct, then to get Nolan on board WB went and took over international distribution for the film, as well as arguably called the shots on the whole marketing campaign. It would basically be a question of pissing of an existing distribution partner like Universal.

    This would then really leave the creative control question - we already saw Boyle part ways with EON over the script and Barbara wanting to bring someone else on to rework what he and Hodge have done. Nolan would be similarly protective over it too.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    The Universal deal is only for B25, so I imagine when hiring Nolan they’d partner up with WB to give them international distribution rights while UA distributes in the US.
  • Posts: 15,557
    Nolan directing Bond would give me nightmares.

    As for Dan Romer, I'll likely just stay away from his scores until I see the film or get my hands on the soundtrack album. I don't want to form an opinion based on what he's done before.
  • Posts: 11,425
    My concern about Romer is that he will create a downbeat melancholy vibe like Newman when the visuals we are seeing suggest we need something much lusher and muscular.
  • PavloPavlo Ukraine
    Posts: 323
    To people who criticized Dan Romer work after listening his soundacks - film music must work not as isolated piece, but as part of movie, its dynamics. Film music is created not for listening in Youtube or on vinyl, but for perception in movie's dynamics. Dan Romer music in Cary's works perfectly fits tone, dynamics, emotional notes of films. Let's hope that the same will be the case in Bond 25.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    As long as it sounds as funky as “Silver Wraith”, I’ll have no complaints.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    I think the score will be fine. Just perhaps not very memorable.
  • MalloryMallory Are you ready to get back to work?
    Posts: 1,444
    I cant speak for his movie scores, but I have just spent the last six weeks playing Far Cry 5, which he did the music for, and I thought that was excellent.

    At least we Bond fans can give him some pointers on Twitter 😂
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think the score will be fine. Just perhaps not very memorable.

    By “memorable” do you mean something you could easily hum? I ask because I notice fans, especially Bond traditionalists, tend to think of them as being the same thing. While I can’t physically hum something like “Shanghai Drive”, I vividly remember every second of that piece as much as Barry’s “Bond Lured to Pyramid”.

    Depending on execution, I can find rhythmic music as memorable as melodic music. Of course, so many scores these days are far more veered towards ambient/rhythmic types of music as that has become prevalent in our culture since the turn of the century, just as the big band sound was in the 20th century. It’s understandable those who want more of the melodic music are upset with film scores. I’m kind of upset too, because today’s generation of composers who try going for big melodic themes like Michael Giacchino leave me utterly cold. They don’t quite have the punch that past composers like Barry, Goldsmith, and Williams had.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Pavlo wrote: »
    To people who criticized Dan Romer work after listening his soundacks - film music must work not as isolated piece, but as part of movie, its dynamics. Film music is created not for listening in Youtube or on vinyl, but for perception in movie's dynamics. Dan Romer music in Cary's works perfectly fits tone, dynamics, emotional notes of films. Let's hope that the same will be the case in Bond 25.

    True, but the best thing about Bond scores is that they're amazing pieces to listen on YouTube and on Vinyl.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited July 2019 Posts: 16,058
    Walecs wrote: »
    Pavlo wrote: »
    To people who criticized Dan Romer work after listening his soundacks - film music must work not as isolated piece, but as part of movie, its dynamics. Film music is created not for listening in Youtube or on vinyl, but for perception in movie's dynamics. Dan Romer music in Cary's works perfectly fits tone, dynamics, emotional notes of films. Let's hope that the same will be the case in Bond 25.

    True, but the best thing about Bond scores is that they're amazing pieces to listen on YouTube and on Vinyl.

    100% this. There's no reason why film music can't be memorable and be fitting to a scene at the same time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,729
    And I hope it’s as enjoyable in soundtrack form as Newman’s.
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