NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • Posts: 15,810
    Murdock wrote: »
    I disagree. KD Lang's song was spectacular and the TWINE score is wonderful. It's not Barry but it's better than any of the experimental scores, especially Newman's.

    This. Whatever one's music tastes are, what Arnold was doing wasn't a cheap pastiche or ripoff. I'm sorry to say (not really) that bombastic orchestra and brass is the Bond sound. It's as simple as that. He took the Bond sound and modernized it.

    Totally agree
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    Dan Romer - like director Fukunaga - not just represents a new era of directors, but a canny, astute one where creatives are being asked to bring a bit of new 2020 dust to proceedings. We, Bond and the world are not in the era of John Barry and the 1960s anymore.

    PASSING THE BOND BATON – Composer Dan Romer joins 007’s Thunderball of Fame
  • Posts: 11,425
    This worries me a little:

    "Taking that millennial melancholy of Thomas Newman and imbibing it with a modern, often restful sensibility, one of the traits of Romer is he does not overproduce his work. Simple, clear and often clean sounds are one of his tropes. Romer is more Thomas Newman and Michael Nyman than John Barry or David Arnold. "

    The little on location in Jamaica appetiser video suggested a different vibe. I don't particularly want millennial anxst.
  • Posts: 3,929

    Getafix wrote: »
    This worries me a little:

    "Taking that millennial melancholy of Thomas Newman and imbibing it with a modern, often restful sensibility, one of the traits of Romer is he does not overproduce his work. Simple, clear and often clean sounds are one of his tropes. Romer is more Thomas Newman and Michael Nyman than John Barry or David Arnold. "

    The little on location in Jamaica appetiser video suggested a different vibe. I don't particularly want millennial anxst.

    I’ve been trying his work out on YouTube, and to my tin ear he seems to go for holding long notes and chords to build up a soundscape. Going for feeling and not melody. It may be even more ambient than Newman.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,821
    I like bombastic music in Bond scores, but I feel Arnold indulged in that too much to the point his scores became ruinous. One that sticks to mind is in CR, right after Bond hangs up his phone on the banker, it’s just these loud pounding notes that sound like they’d be more suited to a shoot em up action scene, but it’s just Bond scoping around Venice for Vesper. Even watching with my dad he had to ask “what’s with the score?”. I can’t help but think the scene would be better off with something more subtle that built up the tension, something Barry was a master at conjuring up with a repetitive note structure that would slowly add up more layers to rack up the suspense.

    The suspense in that track (The Switch??) is definitely there. Particularly just prior to him entering the house or when Vesper looks behind her back. But I do agree that Arnold's biggest fault is sometimes being too enthusiastic with the score and perhaps taking you out of the film like you mentioned. Although in Arnold's defense, it's not up to the composer to dictate how loud the music should be playing during a scene. That might've made it less obtrusive in the final cut.
  • Posts: 3,045
    Dan Romer - like director Fukunaga - not just represents a new era of directors, but a canny, astute one where creatives are being asked to bring a bit of new 2020 dust to proceedings. We, Bond and the world are not in the era of John Barry and the 1960s anymore.

    PASSING THE BOND BATON – Composer Dan Romer joins 007’s Thunderball of Fame

    "Dan Romer is perhaps the first composer of a new era that is less about the gargantuan orchestral sounds of Barry, Arnold and Newman"

    Okay, he is not an orchestra guy. So Cary "I respect the Bond tradition" Fukunaga first choice of composer is a guy who will most likely deliver a very untraditional score?
  • PavloPavlo Ukraine
    edited July 2019 Posts: 323
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Dan Romer - like director Fukunaga - not just represents a new era of directors, but a canny, astute one where creatives are being asked to bring a bit of new 2020 dust to proceedings. We, Bond and the world are not in the era of John Barry and the 1960s anymore.

    PASSING THE BOND BATON – Composer Dan Romer joins 007’s Thunderball of Fame

    "Dan Romer is perhaps the first composer of a new era that is less about the gargantuan orchestral sounds of Barry, Arnold and Newman"

    Okay, he is not an orchestra guy. So Cary "I respect the Bond tradition" Fukunaga first choice of composer is a guy who will most likely deliver a very untraditional score?

    Tradition can be in many, many other aspects of the film. It can't be totally traditional as Bond viewer is changing and franchise must adapt to new environment in order to be successful.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 12,839
    I'm really picturing this score being about as different a Bond score as NSNA was.
  • Posts: 3,045
    Pavlo wrote: »
    franchise must adapt to new environment in order to be successful.
    Using classic big orchestral scores with strings, horns and brass, isn't a determining factor for the success or failure of a movie. With few exceptions, the score rarely is.

    If the producers were really that much into "adapting to new environment", the Bond score in the late 60's would have been a rock template, the score in the 70's would have been disco, and the score in the 90's would have been grungemusic.

    They did go contemporary when Barry took a break and wasn't around. And today the score from TSWLM and FYEO stand out as some of the weakest because they now largely sound dated.

    The Bond franchise is successful because the producers and main crew respect and usually honor the legacy. Not all things in the world should change in order for it to stay a success. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want any fancy contemporary synth and weird sounding experiments from Romer. I just want a Bond score.
  • Posts: 3,929
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'm really picturing this score being about as different a Bond score as NSNA was.

    That one was ever so jazzy, and Barry has a jazzy background, but for some reason Legrand’s effort was too strident at times and often seemed at odds with the movie.

    Romer seems to do quiet stuff that won’t spoil a scene, we just might not whistle it on the way home.
  • PavloPavlo Ukraine
    Posts: 323
    Not trying to offend anyone, but sometimes reading many comments with a list of wishes for B25 (sometimes even requests) about importance and necessity of traditional elements (and list with them is very long and detailed), I am starting to think that many (not all! and, I hope, minority) fans of Bond subconsciously want Marvel-type franchise with many strict rules that bite creative freedom for interpretation, conveyer-type films. I really do not want this! Sometimes notion "Bondian" is too broad in interpretation of meaning by fans and it makes a space for creativeness very tight.
  • Posts: 3,929
    Bond has always had formulaic elements and I guess over the decades people have got used to this.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    It might be worth noting that the best beats of Bond music history have always been when someone did something DIFFERENT. Casting John Barry, giving a torch song to a pop singer from Wales, getting an ex Beatle to come up with a totally non-Beatles sound, allowing a pop band to create new sounds in '85, having a jazz veteran the kids didn't know anymore come in the heat of flower power come and record a love ballad for '69, giving a title song to a TV talent show winner so soon after she won and giving a song to a '90s rock star with zero linkage to Bond, Britain and cinema. Different is never the same as wrong. This Bond film will have a younger zeal to it - for many reasons.
  • Posts: 5,731
    Walecs wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I disagree. KD Lang's song was spectacular and the TWINE score is wonderful. It's not Barry but it's better than any of the experimental scores, especially Newman's.

    This. Whatever one's music tastes are, what Arnold was doing wasn't a cheap pastiche or ripoff. I'm sorry to say (not really) that bombastic orchestra and brass is the Bond sound. It's as simple as that. He took the Bond sound and modernized it.

    +1

    Yes, when he used orchestral pieces and not electronics he was amazing.

    We need the brass back.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    One score I would suggest folk catch at some point is Dan Romer's work for Far Cry 5. There is more traditional film composing and skillsets in that work than not.

  • Posts: 3,929
    There’s not much consensus here
  • Posts: 788
    One score I would suggest folk catch at some point is Dan Romer's work for Far Cry 5. There is more traditional film composing and skillsets in that work than not.


    Yes! It's a stellar score. And probably the best predictor of what he'll bring to Bond action sequences, which—as indicated by his FarCry work—Dan is more than capable of handling.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,324
    Univex wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I disagree. KD Lang's song was spectacular and the TWINE score is wonderful. It's not Barry but it's better than any of the experimental scores, especially Newman's.

    This. Whatever one's music tastes are, what Arnold was doing wasn't a cheap pastiche or ripoff. I'm sorry to say (not really) that bombastic orchestra and brass is the Bond sound. It's as simple as that. He took the Bond sound and modernized it.

    +1

    Yes, when he used orchestral pieces and not electronics he was amazing.

    We need the brass back.

    giphy.gif

    Sorry, @Univex ... I am triggered. My ex-wife left me for a trombone player. True story. LOL
  • I found Arnold to go a little overkill with the brass Particularly with TND. It always struck me as a Bond score trying way too hard to be a Bond score and I'm not sure if that overtly bombastic/flamboyant style suits the Craig films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 5,134
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Pavlo wrote: »
    franchise must adapt to new environment in order to be successful.
    Using classic big orchestral scores with strings, horns and brass, isn't a determining factor for the success or failure of a movie. With few exceptions, the score rarely is.

    If the producers were really that much into "adapting to new environment", the Bond score in the late 60's would have been a rock template, the score in the 70's would have been disco, and the score in the 90's would have been grungemusic.

    They did go contemporary when Barry took a break and wasn't around. And today the score from TSWLM and FYEO stand out as some of the weakest because they now largely sound dated.

    The Bond franchise is successful because the producers and main crew respect and usually honor the legacy. Not all things in the world should change in order for it to stay a success. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want any fancy contemporary synth and weird sounding experiments from Romer. I just want a Bond score.

    Except Barry himself changed his sound throughout the years, likely so not to have it feel stale. First thing he did to reflect the change in a new Bond in 1969? Throw in some new synth and bass sounds for the OHMSS score. And Barry would continue to change it up all the way to 1987, never sticking to what his music sounded like in the early 60s.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'm really picturing this score being about as different a Bond score as NSNA was.

  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    AgentM72 wrote: »
    One score I would suggest folk catch at some point is Dan Romer's work for Far Cry 5. There is more traditional film composing and skillsets in that work than not.


    Yes! It's a stellar score. And probably the best predictor of what he'll bring to Bond action sequences, which—as indicated by his FarCry work—Dan is more than capable of handling.

    It's all very pleasant noodling. Just hope he can also write at least one memorable theme and give us something that gets the pulse racing when required.

    I don't personally understand composers like Newman who just write soporiphic background stuff regardless of the context. Hoping Romer doesn't fall into this category.

    This kind of music has its place and I'm not saying it's bad but I don't really feel anyone has risen to the challenge of trying to match or outdo what Barry achieved with Bond.

    I actually don't want Barry lite. I'd love something new and fresh, but it has to have some drive and life to it.
  • Posts: 486
    While I certainly don't want a pastiche (ie. Incredibles), it does seem like the mentality now is that as long as bits and pieces of the Bond theme is thrown in once and a while, the composer can do whatever he/she wants. I'm all for having a fresh sound, but to me, they're going too deep in the black hole of unrecognizable thematic soundscapes.

    Part of what drew me into Bond was the memorable melodies being woven through a film. Particularly with Barry (but not exclusively), a lot of the themes had a certain gravitas and urgent-ness to them (ie. OHMSS's Gumbold's Safe, DAF's 007 and Counting, MR's Corrine Put Down and Flight into Space, TSWLM The Tanker, and the list goes on). The thing is, they are all melodic and as such, instantly recognizable and memorable.

    Don't get me wrong, thematic soundscaping can be really effective and has its place. But I see it as more of a tool in the toolbox than a sole methodology for creating a score. Sometimes it's better to zoom out and create music that isn't for the specific moment, but rather for the entire scene. That's what this era of soundtracks is missing.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Agree. So many scores are super bland.

    I feel Bond needs someone talented enough that they can write a great thematic melody and also subvert it all at the same time. That true talent is very rare. So pleasant noodlings are what we're likely to get I suspect.

    The good thing about Romer is that he's also a music producer, has worked on hit pop songs and seems happy to collaborate. So if Fukunaga brings in some talented artists for the title song and (I am really hoping) some of the music woven into the actual scenes (e.g. the night club sequence) then I am hopeful Romer will rise to the occasion and bring it all together.

    This is what Monty Norman did on Dr No with Byron Lee.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Riding a white swan to Matera
    edited July 2019 Posts: 12,364
    Thanks, @CatchingBullets . I agree with you. For me, I also genuinely want something fresh, as long as it fits the film appropriately, and I do want a few Bondian touches in the score. But I'm not set in cement for Bond 25 to have the same sound and feel as many previous Bond films.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,045
    And Barry would continue to change it up all the way to 1987, never sticking to what his music sounded like in the early 60s.
    This from '87 could might as well have been from TB or any of the others from the 60's:

  • edited July 2019 Posts: 11,425
    Are you seriously criticising Barry for sounding like Barry? The TLD score is a work of genius.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 5,134
    Zekidk wrote: »
    And Barry would continue to change it up all the way to 1987, never sticking to what his music sounded like in the early 60s.
    This from '87 could might as well have been from TB or any of the others from the 60's:

    It could, albeit it feels more in line with his sound of that era. Not as jazzy as the 60s. I’m really referring to pieces like this that mixed orchestration with synth and drum machines that could not be mistaken as a piece from the 60s. And best, it holds up rather than dating.


    Getafix wrote: »
    Are you seriously criticising Barry for sounding like Barry? The TLD score is a work of genius.

    Who’s criticizing Barry?
  • Posts: 5,731
    Do you guys think Romer won't research all of that? Including our very own love for Barry? Does he have Thomas Newman ego to do his own thing without acknowledging the very foundations of it? I don't know. But I do hope he'll bring his eclecticism and versatility to the table, while trying to update the "Bond sound" on his own way. In a way, he has a lot of pressure upon him. If he manages to create something truly great for this film, he'll have his career set on stone, for the History books, specially after Newman, who I truly respect and admire and was disappointed with most of his contributions (mostly in SP).
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    Can't believe 'Severine' by Thomas Newman doesn't get mentioned on here. It's such a stunningly beautiful piece of music. The music he wrote for the Shanghai section of Skyfall is brilliant too. The homage to Herrmann is perfectly timed with the Hitchcockian part of that scene (where Craig jumps on the lift). I thought Mendes, Deakins and Newman elevated Bond to new heights in that section of the film.
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