Tanner....important ? not important ? wasted ?

barryt007barryt007 Getting counselling by Sir Roger over Kara Milovy
edited July 2018 in Actors Posts: 17,936
Tanner,one of Bond's best friends (not in the films though.)

In the Craig era Villiers was almost a scared attempt to test the response to Tanner returning....Michael Kitchen was a revelation as him in GE & TWINE but then gone,after the Brosnan tenure.

Rory Kinnear was brought in with QOS and basically has been awful,which is,once again,a waste of a good actor who we know has a better range.

Should Kitchen be brought back and Kinnear disposed ,with the new 007 ?
Should Tanner be got rid off altogether ,and another bit of Fleming gone ?

What do you think peeps ?

For me personally,Kitchen still looks great,and could come back.
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Comments

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited July 2018 Posts: 928
    Bill Tanner has the same curse as Felix Leiter: there's not much you can do with them. Or at least the stories haven't which is a shame. It's always focused on 007, M, Q and Moneypenny. I'm still waiting for May the housekeeper to make a cinematic appearance.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 9,811
    I miss Kitchen in the role, that's for sure! He was perfect. Rory Kinnear is hardly used in the role, and has next to nothing to work with as far as scripts go. The current Tanner is just boring.

    Of course it's not meant to be a role that's the focus of attention, but the way he is presented to us in the Craig era just makes you wonder if the role is worth including. I guess it's probably unlikely for Kitchen to return, but it would be great. Brilliant actor.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 233
    I think Rory Kinnear is a good actor, but he isn't the right one for Tanner. Tanner in the books is a good friend of bond. We can not feel this in the Craig Movies. He looks cold and has nothing interesting to do. So better say goodbye to the character or write him a nice conversation between him and bond, so that we can realite that they are buddies.

    The scene in SP, where Tanner wants to give him a hand after leaving the boat, is very strange.

    Liked their chat in GE.

    Nice fact: Tanners first appearance in the Movies was already in TMWTGG.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 233
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for May the housekeeper to make a cinematic appearance.

    That would be interesting. Love her in the books.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 928
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for May the housekeeper to make a cinematic appearance.

    That would be interesting. Love her in the books.

    I say wait until DC is done though. It can be a nice recurring character for the next 007 (with a more humorous portrayal in mind) to bounce off of. Like Q, Felix and Moneypenny.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited July 2018 Posts: 928
    We talk about how MI6 has helped 007 too much. I feel that it's time for Felix and Tanner to get more in the field. If M could pull off her own movie (Skyfall) and his own comic book story, and Leiter can handle his own comic book series, why give both characters screen time in the action with 007?
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,393
    Kitchen was a great Tanner. For the Craig era, I wish they'd stuck with Villiers.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 31,927
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    We talk about how MI6 has helped 007 too much. I feel that it's time for Felix and Tanner to get more in the field. If M could pull off her own movie (Skyfall) and his own comic book story, and Leiter can handle his own comic book series, why give both characters screen time in the action with 007?

    I shudder at the thought of Tanner being out in the field any more than he was in SP. Now Felix, I'm all in - he needs to return more often, and be given much more to do.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 4,874
    Keep Rory Kinnear, give the Tanner important ways to help Bond, doesn't have to be in the field or a lot of screen time.

    Easy. Not essential, but remains a great opportunity to add to the film.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited July 2018 Posts: 3,074
    Tanner is not his friend, but M assistent. Very clear that he whas not happy with her. We will see how long he is happy with the new guy. His father ;) (Kitchten) has more to say.

    I stil don't mind if there created scene that Tanner Jr is kild at his house and be very clear that Quantum did it with Q ear thing from QOS find on his body. There can even make it more intresting that send him earlier ear thing and he think he whas messages from his college to made clear we know you are a talker/trater.

    In my Bond 21 with Brosnan 5th movie, Kitchen Tanner have died at his house by mystrious shadow in pretitles and turn out Falco kilt him. But since Brosnan not get his fifth Moneypenny and Charles are settled in Australia with there daughter (Eve) and Tanner Jr father past a way by choose.

    Felix is wasted, but i hope he will return.
  • BennyBenny Welcome to Japan Mr. BennyModerator
    Posts: 8,600
    Tanner in the books was Bond's best friend within the service. Around the same age as Bond as far as I recall.
    As much as I like Michael Kitchen in the role, I think he's bit old for that role now.
    (Maybe a future M down the track though???)

    I'd like a recast of the role, with a much more confident Tanner in place. Someone who looks like he can organise things. Maybe a scene with Bond and Tanner playing a round of golf, discussing work in a casual manner.

    Rory Kinnear is a nice enough chap, and not a terrible actor. But he's not Bill Tanner I'm afraid.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 9,811
    Benny wrote: »
    Tanner in the books was Bond's best friend within the service. Around the same age as Bond as far as I recall.
    As much as I like Michael Kitchen in the role, I think he's bit old for that role now.
    (Maybe a future M down the track though???)

    I'd like a recast of the role, with a much more confident Tanner in place. Someone who looks like he can organise things. Maybe a scene with Bond and Tanner playing a round of golf, discussing work in a casual manner.

    Rory Kinnear is a nice enough chap, and not a terrible actor. But he's not Bill Tanner I'm afraid.

    Mentioned that in a discussion with @barryt007 in the Bond...Comments while you watch.... thread. Think he'd make a really good M. Can easily imagine a scene with Kitchen M having to deal with other high-ranking government officials at the MI6 building or at Blades (or similar)!

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,408
    As opposed to the novels, Tanner is...not important in the films, and doesn't really need to be in any of them. His presence is never dramatically justified in these stories.

    I like GE Kitchen the best. I believe he wasn't available for TND, which gave us Robinson as a replacement. And then with TWINE we get to cast bloating with both Tanner and Robinson, and that trend has infected the Craig era, with a whole host of side characters at MI6.

    Do we really need anyone other than M? Give us Q and Moneypenny if they must.

    I know the Moore era used the Defense Minister in addition to M but the beauty of those characters is that they were just cameos. Less is more.
  • Posts: 598
    In answer to the OP: wasted.

    He's just an another anonymous Mi6 hanger-on, nothing distinguishing about him. I'm surprised so many thought Kitchen was memorable as I've always thought opposite. Robinson on the other hand is a guy I can see going into the field or being useful as in the VR sequence in DAD.

    The difference between the books and films is there's more room for character exploration in the novels and not so in the films, thus Tanner becomes just another guy in the office in the series. Maybe if they'd added a scene with Bond and Tanner having a drink or interacting, like they're trying to do with Moneypenny then it may change it but till that happens I won't buy it.
  • Posts: 11,985
    Not really important at all but they could do a better job with him. Colin Salmone basically played the same character even if he wasn't called Tanner and the difference was night and day. He's actually a fairly charismatic actor, which made the exposition more interesting than when Kinnear delivers it. Also, instead of making him Bond's bitch, they put in a few little moments/touches that showed they were mates. Robinson is honestly one of my favourite minor characters.

    Actually I preferred the Brosnan era regulars in general to be honest. I liked Dench more than Fiennes, and Brosnan Dench a lot more than Craig era Dench because I never liked the surrogate mum angle. I preferred Brosnan and Dench, very business like and terse but with a mutual respect there. Naomi Harris is a brilliant actress but she just doesn't work for me as Moneypenny, don't know if it's her or the direction or what but she doesn't seem to have much chemistry with Craig at all to me. Samantha Bond meanwhile had great chemistry with Pierce even when the dialogue was horrific. I think Robinson is way better than any Tanner, and I think Kitchen was better than Kinnear too. Wishaw is brilliant. I hope he plays Q until he's as old as Desmond was, and he's better than Cleese (I do like Cleese as Q in DAD but Wishaw just owns it imo). But you can't beat the original and even though Desmond was probably too old at this point I still really like his scenes with Brosnan because you can tell that he's loving getting to have a scene with Q.

    So overall, even though they now go for prestigious actors for even the most minor roles and have beefed up their screentime, I actually preferred the MI6 crew in the Brosnan films.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Never go full Petachi
    Posts: 3,273
    I friggin' love Kitchen as Tanner. They should've kept him around.
  • Posts: 11,985
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I friggin' love Kitchen as Tanner. They should've kept him around.

    I think he's alright but feels a bit pointless with Robinson there. I wish they'd just cast Colin Salmon as Tanner in GE and merged them into one character. No point having both really.
  • Posts: 9,811
    I didn't mention Colin Salmon in my previous comment, as he plays a different character - but he was of course brilliant as well. As with Kitchen, I think he too could be a really interesting M!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Area 52
    Posts: 32,538
    Tanner could have been a nice adition to a few films, if they portrayed him properly, as Bond s friend in the service. And as someone believable as Chief of Staff. Kitchen was the only good Tanner. Kinnear is the worst.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 16,446
    I have nothing against Kinnear as an actor but his Tanner feels quite underwhelming, almost as if people were worried that he might duel with Craig for the spotlight position. Kitchen, by contrast, was delicious as Tanner. His GoldenEye scenes, much more so than what little he was given in TWINE, were great. Both he and Brosnan were stepping it up; what could have been boring talky scenes ended up being very enjoyable, not in the least thanks to the wonderful screenwriting, but also because Brosnan, Kitchen and Dench gave an impressive performance.

    To answer @barryt007's question--yes, I'd love for Kitchen to return, but let's not forget that he's pushing 70... A younger Tanner, more like a peer of the next Bond, could work too, provided that they know what to do with the character. Tanner mustn't merely "be there"; he ought to bring something to the game that Bond cannot.

    In other words, someone needs to dig up his or her Fleming and start compiling material to then remould it into an interesting but never overused supporting character.
  • NicNacNicNac Moderator
    Posts: 6,661
    I sort of sit alone on the Tanner issue. I've never really been a fan of Kitchen as an actor, because he barely ever seems to vary his 'techniques'. His Tanner is the same as Foyle who is the same as his character in Always & Everyone (a TV medical drama). Those annoying momentary pauses between words. Irritating.

    Rory Kinnear is actually an actor of greater range in my opinion. His turn as the PM in the first Black Mirror episode is actually heart breaking, and whether he takes on heavy drama or comedy (Count Arthur Strong) he is always on the mark. He is employable because he will never be a star, will never stand out, he will always be the Everyman.

    On film Kinnear's Tanner isn't Bond's best friend in the service, regardless of Fleming's work. He is M's sidekick, a stuffed shirt, the true bean counter of MI6 who would probably love to be as Gung Ho as Bond, but can never break away from sticking rigidly to his duty. He is the flip side of Bond. They respect each other but neither would really want to step into the other's shoes. I actually like his performance.

    His Tanner is incredibly dull, but that's the point.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited July 2018 Posts: 2,207
    @NicNac It seems we've got different opinions on Kinnear's acting skills. I thought he was awful in Black Mirror and The Imitation Game, and was slightly better in Penny Dreadful but still very bad.
  • NicNacNicNac Moderator
    Posts: 6,661
    Walecs wrote: »
    @NicNac It seems we've got different opinions on Kinnear's acting skills. I thought he was awful in Black Mirror and The Imitation Game, and was slightly better in Penny Dreadful but still very bad.

    :)) Ah well. I just think he is dull as Tanner because that’s the character he plays.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Hamburg, near the Atlantic Hotel
    Posts: 3,926
    I must admit that Tanner was pretty much under my radar for the past twenty-some years. I wouldn't even have known who he was and who played him. He's an entirely dispensable character for me, and I really don't care who portrays him. The older JB movies got along without him all right.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 928
    All this saying of Tanner being useless has me thinking the same about Felix Leiter. He's got fake limbs and is in a wheelchair in the books minus CR. But the books still make him useful and give him something to do. The only thing that was bad that Felix did was give Bond the OK to sleep with his daughter. Other than that, not much importance for either one in the movies.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 16,446
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    All this saying of Tanner being useless has me thinking the same about Felix Leiter. He's got fake limbs and is in a wheelchair in the books minus CR. But the books still make him useful and give him something to do. The only thing that was bad that Felix did was give Bond the OK to sleep with his daughter. Other than that, not much importance for either one in the movies.

    See? That's part of the reason I don't like reading any of the continuation novels.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 2,207
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    All this saying of Tanner being useless has me thinking the same about Felix Leiter. He's got fake limbs and is in a wheelchair in the books minus CR. But the books still make him useful and give him something to do. The only thing that was bad that Felix did was give Bond the OK to sleep with his daughter. Other than that, not much importance for either one in the movies.

    See? That's part of the reason I don't like reading any of the continuation novels.

    Same. I stopped halfway through For Secret Services three years ago and I have no interest in reading more of Gardner's.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Area 52
    Posts: 32,538
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    All this saying of Tanner being useless has me thinking the same about Felix Leiter. He's got fake limbs and is in a wheelchair in the books minus CR. But the books still make him useful and give him something to do. The only thing that was bad that Felix did was give Bond the OK to sleep with his daughter. Other than that, not much importance for either one in the movies.

    See? That's part of the reason I don't like reading any of the continuation novels.

    Same here.
    Screen-Shot-2016-08-07-at-9.17.48-AM.jpg
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython Crab Key
    Posts: 377
    Let's be honest, there never really has been anything notable about Tanner in the films. Even Kitchen, aside from the ONE brief character moment referring to M as "the evil queen of numbers", has mostly been just exposition data dump, and the character has continued to be as such in TWINE and the Kinnear version.

    I'm not sure why EON has tried to include the character since GE if they never bothered to give him a personality. They might as well try to bring in Loelia Ponsonby and have her played as much of blank slate.

    It's all quite odd, because Rory Kinnear has proven to be a good actor in a lot of other non-Bond productions. I recall Sam Mendes saying in the SKYFALL commentary that he hoped to make more use of Kinnear. I guess he couldn't work that out with SPECTRE.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 928
    Let's be honest, there never really has been anything notable about Tanner in the films. Even Kitchen, aside from the ONE brief character moment referring to M as "the evil queen of numbers", has mostly been just exposition data dump, and the character has continued to be as such in TWINE and the Kinnear version.

    I'm not sure why EON has tried to include the character since GE if they never bothered to give him a personality. They might as well try to bring in Loelia Ponsonby and have her played as much of blank slate.

    It's all quite odd, because Rory Kinnear has proven to be a good actor in a lot of other non-Bond productions. I recall Sam Mendes saying in the SKYFALL commentary that he hoped to make more use of Kinnear. I guess he couldn't work that out with SPECTRE.

    I would really Loelia Ponsonby to be in the movies one day. You make it a Moneypenny rivalry as a starting subplot.
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