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You've been lied for years. Hitler himself never renounced his Catholicism, Himmler remained a practicing Catholic and they had "God With Us" on the buckle of their belt and so on. If you want to extend this to the allies of Nazi Germany, Franco in Spain was a Catholic too (albeit Spain did not enter the war, it was still a fascist tyranny) and the Japanese emperor was a god on earth. Only Mussolini was an atheist.
As usual, you got it, @TheWizardOfIce. Whether it's meant by the speaker or not, the decision to not drop the G-bomb in a speech won't get you far.
Judging by this thread they were right to feel under attack.
How so?
when people started turning against it ;-) Just because you feel under threat, does not
mean you are right
Well said Sir. Religion has had more than a good run but the party is over now so you'd better get used to it. If you still want to live in a society that's in thrall to this garbage move to the States or the Middle East because ever so slowly Europe is waking from its slumber.
I like the way the religionists bleat. I don't think any of us atheists have said that you can't be religious in the privacy of your own home (an outright ban would be nice but unenforceable) just that we should have absolutely no truck with it in public life. But of course that's not enough for the religious. It's not enough that they can be allowed to indulge their fairy tale fantasies privately, they're only happy if the rest of us are forced to bow down to them as well.
Well, the figures show that there are more atheists in the UK than believers, hence they are on the "losing side" of popular opinion in an increasingly secular society.
I never said one would be. It would depend the belief involved.
That doesn't make Christians under attack. They can still practice their faith freely they just cannot impose it as policy. Or they shouldn't. I'm not Christian and thus I do not have to follow Christian doctrine or have my life ruled by Christian dogmas. I won't attack anyone for their belief as long as they don't try to preach or proselytise.
But in any case, it's Theresa May who made a fool of herself in that stupid made up Cadbury eggs controversy, jumping in the C of E''s bandwagon, it's Tim Farron who brought up the contradictions of his beliefs and the policies of his party, why should they feel under attack?
Haha. Of course it's only your God that it's right to believe in. Believing in far fetched stuff like Allah or Buddha or Vishnu would be ridiculous.
Draggers, please don't play that victim card. Everyone of that lot does it these days, and it's so tired and not at all becoming.
The "religion is under attack/there's a war against Christianity" defense is always thrown out quite pathetically in the states when a religious individual can't find any other way to dance out of the question/s they're being asked. The trouble is that, by the way they get cut up over other peoples' human rights, you can tell how they are purposefully or inadvertently using their religion to stop everyone else from living their lives if they don't agree with the fabled tome they've unwisely chosen to live their lives according to.
Letting two gays get married harms nobody, but to the Christians it's an attack on the bible and everything God's word stands for! Women who are raped and impregnated can be given the choice of whether to keep their child or not, but if they exercise that right to abortion it's an attack on the Christian ethic of creationism; you don't decide what lives and what dies, God does! You don't think Jesus was a white Brad Pitt of Nazareth? You're spreading lies about a great (caucasian) man, a savior of our species who totally didn't have a darker skin color, and to spread those lies is an attack on God and Christians! Lies you are spreading, lies, lies!
These are the kinds of nutters we're talking about here:
People made so robotic by their "faith" that they can't comprehend equal treatment for others. It's so fascinating how anal (forgive the pun) these people get over other peoples' sex lives that have nothing to do with their own, when the religious almost seem to despise sex and any feeling that doesn't have guilt attached to it, because what are we but sinners reaching for the glory of God (ugh). There's no time for happiness!
In the end, what exactly will change in the world if gay people are allowed to simply get recognized as a couple? Will all human decency die the first moment federal law is passed? Will the ground crumble beneath our feet and send us tumbling to "hell" beneath? Will God pop out of the clouds and start zapping us with finger lasers? Treating people the way other people are already treated isn't religious oppression, it's an egalitarian revolution against narrow-minded thought that represents actual oppression.
I don't think you're going to find a probable cause to call out atheists for unfairly targeting religious "values" or attacking "faith," because we actually spend our time standing against things that actually matter with reasons for doing so. Our choices are clear: human rights instead of balmy religious ones that have nothing to do with how reality actually works, true freedom to everyone no matter if they fit a majority or minority lifestyle, and a stand against regression and oppression in society as we know it, as we are far too held back in a non-secular world (as we've seen and subsequently started to grow out of).
Atheists wouldn't be so up in arms if religion was about reality, not delusion, and about progression, not regression. But it's not and hasn't been for centuries now, if it ever was to begin with. It's quite clear that the religious arms of the world, including the Catholic arm of religion, aren't interested in progressing our collective lives as we know them, because that progression will lead to the disbandment of religion. If laws are passed that normalize human rights for gays, the bible will be the text that is viewed as cruel and oppressive (I think most people already see this). If science and rational thinking are upheld, the delusional and fabled text of religion will be seen as the acid trip storybook it is, and less people will follow it as a historical artifact or lead their lives according to its "teachings." In short, religion would be undervalued or completely snuffed out in a truly secular, progressive and rational society, and so the churches must do their damnedest to stop that from happening, as they've got some moola to make and some gullible sheep to herd.
I'm still drooling over your post. Strong case you built there, buddy, and those two clips show us how in utter shambles a large part of America is.
No, I say each to their own. I believe in the freedom to practice whatever religion one chooses. The state agrees with me as it's protected by law.
Nobody said here they should not practice their beliefs, as long as they don't impose them on others or want to be exempt from obeying laws or ask for privileges because of their faith.
And freedom of belief does NOT mean immunity from criticism.
I don't particularly want that either, as long as it doesn't mean a free-for-all and a state of anarchy ensuing.
Quite honestly (and our side have argued this many times), I think the world would be far more stable, safer and altogether more harmonious without religion. I don't think its absence would lead to anarchy, as people sin no matter what and I think (or hope) most of the religious don't believe their texts so earnestly anyway.
I'm honestly not following you here. What would lead to or mean a state of anarchy?
And you have to admit, it's utterly ludicrous that the most obvious sign of Christian oppression the PM could come up with was... Cadbury eggs!
You're joking now right?
You can't seriously think that without the guiding hand of religion to keep us on the straight and narrow the world will end up like Mad Max? Would the police and judicial system all collapse overnight without religion to guide them?
Take a look at the Middle East (religion is everything) and Scandinavia (among the highest percentages of atheists) and tell me which one is more civilised.
In such a system, women would be treated as real people, kids would be properly educated in science, people would have to start thinking for themselves and they'd have to accept that death is final. Surely you're asking far too much now.
It's an interesting thought - what exactly would society be like if religion was suddenly eradicated? In the Middle East where lives are ruled by religious laws and beliefs they would still need some reason to live according to their own (now,non religious) beliefs.
@DarthDimi these people wouldn't suddenly treat women as equals, and begin to educate their female minors, just because they no longer had a God. They would think of other ways to control society.
We in Western Europe would simply cherry pick the best bits (Christmas..that's about it) and carry on.
These people would find no moral justification though. And one less source of hatred.
Well, at the very least nobody would be telling them that their "sacrifice" would be met with a paradise. Why people believe this anyway is beyond me, but there is a definite ego angle to religion and the promises that await you, glorious you, if you only meet certain requisites. God has made you in his imagine and designed a holy and enriching path for you in life as his child. It's meant to pander to the side of ourselves that wants to be vindicated and thought of as special, and most certainly the side that demands a meaning for everything; surely the universe can't just exist with no rules or limitations, without no great designer behind it all?!.
Thankfully I'm a self-loathing, rational and modest arse, so that's where my atheism begins. ;)
How dare you. My thinking and my philosophical debating have often been compared to a puddle.
I assume that means I cause ripples in peoples' sub conscious. What else could it mean?
I must say, Thundy, that's quite offensive and insulting to the believers here, scant as they are. These folks are actively propagating the idea that our universe and all of us have been created by an all powerful and all knowing cosmic wizard who has pre-destined our lives on our way to a glorious cloud-laden "heaven." On top of that, they believe that our savior died and resurrected himself to go to heaven and that, on top of all that, we got our start from a man and woman who were fooled by a talking snake in a garden paradise that was really Satan and that a man named Noah really existed who built an ark with doubles of earth's creatures on it to survive a flood like a pirate captain.
These people are bending over backwards to be as unsimplistic in their thinking as humanly possible, and you don't care a lick for it. What gives you the right?!