MI6 Community Bondathon

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  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    You'll be pleasantly surprised up 'till Iceland...
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    edited February 2017 Posts: 4,151
    Just finished watching Die Another Day.. OK, so we know that this movie isn't perfect but I do think that it had a lot of expectation. One, it's the first movie of the 2000's and two, it's the 40th anniversary Bond. That's a lot to make sure you get it right for.

    Unfortunately, it's generally classed as one of the worst Bond movies, if not THE worst.

    However, as it is, I base my rankings on how much I enjoy movie and, on this viewing, I enjoyed it for 60% of the time. The poor CGI, back projection shots and playground one-liners really let it down and I didn't enjoy those parts of the movie.

    I remember going to watch this with the missus when it was released. I came out of the cinema s thinking of seen a great movie (as I generally do on first viewing, probably because it's new Bond etc), but the wife was underwhelmed. Years on, I began to realise why and it's a shame that this Anniversary Bond fell flat.

    Based on this viewing, and because of the amount of enjoyment I got from it, my ranking is as follows:

    New Ranking

    OHMSS
    TSWLM
    GF
    FRWL
    OP
    GE
    LTK
    DN
    TLD
    LALD
    AVTAK
    FYEO
    MR
    TND
    TB
    YOLT
    TMWTGG
    TWINE
    DAF
    DAD

    Previous Ranking

    1. The Spy Who Loved Me
    2. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    3. Casino Royale
    4. From Russia With Love
    5. Skyfall
    6. Goldfinger
    7. Octopussy
    8. Spectre
    9. Dr No
    10. The Living Daylights
    11. Goldeneye
    12. Live And Let Die
    13. Licence To Kill
    14. A View To A Kill
    15. For Your Eyes Only
    16. Moonraker
    17. Thunderball
    18. Quantum Of Solace
    19. Diamonds Are Forever
    20. Tomorrow Never Dies
    21. You Only Live Twice
    22. The Man With The Golden Gun
    23. Die Another Day
    24. The World Is Not Enough

    I really didn't want to do that, I wanted to really enjoy it but, if just wasn't that easy.

    Edit: Apologies, just realised I've done this early but thought that as it was fresh I'd get it posted. Cheers.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DAD brought us CR and the rest of the Craig era, so in some way I should be thankful that it's not good. Much like I thank Schumacher for making crappy Batman movies so I could get Nolan's later on.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    @Birdleson, great story, I've always enjoyed hearing your first experience with most of these movies since you've managed to see nearly all of them in theaters.

    Die Another Day:

    GENERAL THOUGHTS:

    While I would've preferred seeing GE as my first Bond film in theaters, I'm happy to have managed to at least see one from Brosnan's era, and 11-year-old me would catch my very first theatrical installment of this back in 2002. Of course, I was 11, so ALL of it was cool to me; sadly, I can't seem to recall any major complaints that stood out at that time (a mixture of being young and that new Bond feeling probably had me losing my mind with excitement), but I'd like to think some of the spotty CG sequences, particularly the tsunami moment, weren't looked upon favorably by my own eyes.

    This film isn't going for any Oscars, nor is it close to my Top 10, but damn, if I don't have a ball with this anytime I put it in. I'm engaged from the PTS, all the way up to the Cuba sequences, which are a massive highlight in this movie. I'm also a big fan of the Blades scenes, the VR sequence (NOT that it's virtual-reality and doesn't really happen, but I do enjoy watching Bond and Robinson work together to clear MI6 of bad guys), and some bits and bobs scattered throughout the latter half of the film, such as the Bond vs. Zao chase.

    At the end of the day, whether I look upon it a bit more favorably (or a bit less) with a certain viewing, it'll never drop to the 24th spot, simply because it's fun, entertaining, and what it does right, it really does right. Give me an intermingling of good and bad scenes, the former being engaging and fun, over a bloated snoozefest any day. I watch Bond for the fun and escapism, and in terms of that, this movie fires on all cylinders.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    Tomorrow Never Dies

    Tomorrow Never Dies is the first of the modern films in my mind, with GoldenEye straddling the gap between classic Bond the modern Bond. Yet, beginning with TND one gets the impression of the filmmakers to target the teenage market, which will only get worse with TWINE and reached its nadir with DAD.

    Still, I digress. TND serves up the classic Bondian tropes in a more up to date fashion. This is the last proper Bond film – as in a mission focused Bond, plus he gets the girl at the end. TWINE had Bond falling in love with the villainess; DAD has Bond get captured, going rogue and the last 40 minutes of that film dilute the “Bond is back” angle, while in the Craig films one had Vesper and M dying to contend with, plus the more “classic” feeling of Spectre is slightly marred by the whole foster-brother travesty.

    While watching TND this morning, it was refreshing to view a Bond film without any homages – TWINE is clearly reminiscent of Majesty’s; DAD and SF have the baggage of being anniversaries. Even QOS has the blatant GF ripoff with Fields and the oil. I guess one can say that the scene in which Bond is waiting for his supposed assassin bears a resemblance to Bond’s shooting of Dent.

    Which brings me on rather awkwardly to TND’s plot; a neat updating of You Only Live Twice, and with recent events, so topical. Sleek, sophisticated and thrilling. The accent is on high tech sleek thrills, and the film delivers it in spades. Kudos must go to Spottiswoode, who betrays his background as a film editor delivering a taut and pacy film, in which must have been trying circumstances.

    A quick word for Mr Brosnan, who, builds upon his good work in GoldenEye, with a more composed and confident performance as Bond. TND also has a good cast, namely Michelle Yeoh, who is the best of Bond's "comrades in arms", although Teri Hatcher was disappointing - stunt casting. 

    Other strengths are the music by David Arnold. If there was a caveat to Arnold's work, is that he over-scored them, but not on TND; Arnold was almost perfect, and I was left humming the score for a while afterwards, especially "Surrender". I like how Arnold's separates the score into three distinct sections – the classic sounding first third of the movie; the second “techno beat” act, reflecting Germany; final act with Asian influences.

    The look and feel to the film, helmed with great panache by Robert Elswit, is a step up from GE. It could have been filmed yesterday and not 20 years ago. Apart from a few ladies dresses in Carver’s party, the fashion, the music, the cinematography, the technology etc all combine to make TND quite a timeless piece. (Although I was quite amused by Roebuck giving out the terms to GPS)

    This is the perfect film for the 90's; superficial, and proud of it - not a scrap of pretentiousness anywhere.

    Royale’s Ranking -

    1. From Russia With Love
    2. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    3. Dr. No
    4. Goldfinger
    5. Licence To Kill
    6. Thunderball
    7. The Living Daylights
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. Octopussy
    10. For Your Eyes Only
    11. Tomorrow Never Dies
    12. GoldenEye
    13. You Only Live Twice
    14. A View To A Kill
    15. Moonraker
    16. The Man With The Golden Gun
    17. Diamonds Are Forever
    18. Live and Let Die







  • edited February 2017 Posts: 3,564
    Tomorrow Never Dies

    I have to echo @royale65 here: Tomorrow Never Dies may be the last of the “classic” Bond films. Some folks fault it for being too “Check Off All the Boxes” inclusive of all the Bond tropes, but I would counter that it misses one important box: the “Significant Male Ally” category. Does Joe Don Baker’s minute and a half onscreen as Jack Wade check that box? It’s nothing in comparison to the time Quarrel or Kerim Bey get in their films. Others think the film’s final act goes a little overboard with the automatic weapons fire and here I have to agree. But this film has several classic moments, some great gadgets, and a villain whose motivations are all too realistic to my mind. I’ve always enjoyed this film tremendously whenever I get a chance to watch it and this time around was no exception.

    The PTS here seems to be a remake of the PTS for Goldeneye, leaving out the implausible physics of Bond in freefall catching up to a plane in flight. It seems to me that Eon tries this sort of thing from time-to-time -- such as when they reprised Stromberg’s attempt to repopulate humanity in TSWLM without bothering to give us any input on his plans for “breeding stock.” They corrected that flaw in the very next film, MR, with Drax’s perfect human pair bonds going into orbit to keep them safe from the death and destruction set to take place down on Earth. As long as there’s a real need to revisit a scenario immediately…and as long as the film-makers succeed in getting it right the second time, I have no objections. This time around, the reprise also seems to work. We’ll come back to the usefulness of this type of “quickly refried” scenario shortly, with my review of The World is Not Enough

    It’s nice to see M sticking up for 007 when he’s not around to catch her in the act. “What’s he DOING???” “His JOB.” Sad to say, the characteristic inability of Dench’s M to praise her top agent to his face will show up in the next film. This sort of subtle continuity is more acceptable to my way of thinking than the pointless need to have EVERY film in Craig’s tenure all tie together as part of Blofeld/Oberhauser’s master plan. Colin Salmon is a nice addition to the MI-6 home team as Charles Robinson, and Q’s moment as a red-blazered rental car agent is one of his most amusing turns ever as the series’ gadget master. Samantha Bond is again giving Bond better than she ever gets from him, once again teasing 007 for his womanizing ways. All in all, I'd say it's a solid performance from the home team.

    The villains are also a first rate bunch this time out. Jonathan Pryce is exquisite as Rupert Murdock Elliot Carver, a media baron who’s willing to ignite World War III in his quest for a greater share of the world audience. Ricky Jay takes the role of top techno-guy to the main villain, usually a “who’s that?” kind of job, and makes it into something special in his turn as Henry Gupta. Even Gupta’s safe has an unusual collection of details shown to the audience, with Gupta’s taste in porn and his drug preferences shown as well as the GPS encoder that is Bond’s target. One of the film’s best brief villainous turns is with Vincent Sciavelli’s amusingly creepy appearance as Dr. Kaufman. Even the de rigueur blond Aryan super henchman , Gotz Otto’s Stamper, is a notch or two above average.

    Michelle Yeoh gives this film the only credible incarnation of the “Bond Girl as Bond’s Equal” storyline that has caused so many other Bond films to go awry. Her Wai Lin is indeed Bond’s equal in a fight and possibly even his superior in actual spy-craft. She at least seems to be able to get next to her target and interrogate him without announcing, “Hi, I’m here to steal your wife and destroy your carefully laid schemes." Bond could maybe take some lessons from her. And this brings us to the stunt-casting catch of the year, Terri Hatcher as Lois Lane Paris Carver. Hatcher’s Paris is gorgeous, sexy, and either bored or self-destructive to an insane degree. She delivers the line, “Do you still sleep with a gun underneath your pillow?” with about the same lack of inflection as the immortal line “Did I get too close?” When Bond relies, “Yes,” (to either? Both?) you get the sense that he’s clearly lying to her. He ditched her for the same reason he ditches every woman he sleeps with: he’s tired of her. He’s bored. Time for the next girl. Brosnan’s best line in this film, to my mind, is when he tells Wai Lin that she’s found the right “corrupt agent of a decadent Western power” to work alongside. This is Bond, James Bond, and this is what he does on a regular basis. Some folks claim that Brosnan and Yeoh don’t seem to have much chemistry together. I disagree. They may not be very lovey-dovey for much of the film, but their sense of competitive spirit is realistic and palpable throughout. Wai Lin suits this film quite nicely as far as I’m concerned; Terri Hatcher does not. How can I worry about her fate at the hands of Dr Kaufman when I just KNOW a big guy wearing a red cape is going to come bursting through the wall to save her at any moment? Maybe my mind is just too full of comic book scenarios. Why else would I see Wai Lin walking down the walls of Carver’s headquarters on a rope-and-piton device fired from her wrist, and think of Marvel’s Black Widow character long before the Avengers had made the leap from the comics page to the silver screen? (I did, I truly did. More on my overexposure to comic book science will surely be coming shortly, with my review of DAD…)

    The overall plot, with Carver setting the British and Chinese forces against one another in order to scoop the world on the budding war and arrange for his own monopoly of broadcasting rights in China, is an original and somehow believable one to me, and it nets this film substantial points in my evaluation. And the standout automobile for this film, the remote controlled BMW, is the star of one of the most entertaining chase sequences in the entire Bond series, as 007 proves the extreme need for collision coverage on Q’s newest creation. Some people quibble about one aspect of another of this scene…it’s too soon after Paris’ death and Bond is having too much fun after his most recent heartbreak. No, as far as I’m concerned this simply demonstrates how completely Bond has walled off his emotions from his consciousness. Others will complain (and rightly so) that Bond is needlessly endangering innocent civilians who might be in the path of the BMW’s trajectory. I’ll grant there is some validity to that objection -- but I’ll also insist that the car needed to crash spectacularly for this scene to work emotionally…and the scene does indeed work. How many Vietnamese civilians were endangered by the helicopter/motorcycle chase through the busy streets of Saigon in Bond & Wai Lin’s escape? That scene works too, on very much the same sort of level…and yet, you don’t hear too many people complaining about that aspect of this scene. They will complain that a helicopter couldn’t actually turn its’ blades at the angle shown in the film and still stay aloft (also an entirely valid point) but they won’t complain about anybody endangering the (fictional) Vietnamese civilians here. They’d much rather complain about the level of automatic gunfire in the final scene aboard the stealth boat.

    Okay, granted: it’s overwhelming, almost as annoying is the level of *BRATTABRATTABRATTABRAT* in the finale of this film as the squeals of “JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMES!” from Tanya Roberts a few films back. (Will I ever get tired of making fun of poor Miss Roberts in this way? Sorry. Probably not.) But the bottom line for any Bond film at this point is: do the villains die an emotionally satisfying death? Yes, to my mind they do. Once Carver is dead I might not have spent quite as much time as this film does dispensing with Stamper…but Gupta “outliving his contract” is quite amusing, and I think Bond does indeed “give the audience what they want” when he puts the screws to Carver.

    If anything, some of the individual elements of this film score higher with me than the film does itself…but overall, I think the four Bond films of 1987-1997 are as solid a block of films as the series has seen since the initial four of Dr No through Thunderball. Your mileage, of course, may vary -- but all I know is, when I left the theatre after my first viewing of TND, I was about as satisfied a Bond fan as I ever have been.

    MY CURRENT STANDINGS
    1) Goldfinger
    2) From Russia With Love
    3) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    4) Goldeneye
    5) The Spy Who Loved Me
    6) The Living Daylights
    7) Thunderball
    8) Dr. No
    9) For Your Eyes Only
    10) Tomorrow Never Dies
    11) You Only Live Twice
    12) Octopussy
    13) License to Kill
    14) Live And Let Die
    15) A View to a Kill
    16) DiamondsAre Forever
    17) Moonraker
    18) The Man With the Golden Gun
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Die Another Day - Actor Notes

    Final outing for Pierce Brosnan, although no one, especially the man himself thought as much at the time.

    Pierce looks terrific in this film, and irons out all of the annoying actory quirks prevalent in the previous three films (well, most of them).

    Points off for the American drawl of 'Ah'm checkin out' at the hospital.

    Pierce maintains his integrity even at the most challenging times (during some of the more ridiculous stunts and of course the horrific dialogue in the first Jinx scene) and despite everything he comes out of this film with his head held high.

    Halle Berry as Jinx an American agent coming at Graves from a different direction from Bond. She fills a bikini in the most spectacular fashion possible, and with the Peter Pan haircut looks pretty cute as well. However Jinx doesn't come across as a particularly well thought out character. Independent, sassy and tough one minute (although she doesn't think twice about leaping into bed with Bond right after meeting him - he could be anyone), clueless and helpless the next, Jinx simply doesn't wash as a sort of female James Bond.

    Toby Stephens is Gustav Graves a man who came from nowhere (something about an orphan, salt mines and Argentina) and in a year or so is being knighted by the Queen. Believe you me the British press wouldn't be asking the fascicle questions they threw at him outside the Palace, they would be digging around in his past, looking for weaknesses.

    Stephens gives us a manic, larger than life character, well suited to the film's overall comic book sensibilities.

    He and Brosnan are very good in the testosterone fuelled sword fight.

    But his resemblance to the comic actor Rik Mayall is just too apparent for anyone to take him seriously.

    Rosamund Pike is Miranda Frost. Excellent casting (her film debut) and she plays the ice cold good girl turned bad very well.

    Rick Yune is Zao the diamond encrusted sidekick to Graves. He looks the business and his robotic movements add further to the characters other worldly transformation.

    The usual MI6 team of M, Moneypenny, new Q (John Cleese) and Robinson. Judi Dench was less involved in the drama than in The World Is Not Enough so it does feel like she is less apparent.

    Michael Madsen, Kenneth Tsang (as the rather tragic General Moon) and Madonna in a brief cameo as Frost's fencing instructor make up the rest of the main cast.

    A word on Raoul played by Emilio Echavarrio. Some real potential for this character, and apparently an extensive scene between him and Bond was removed. Why in a film running for 2 hours and 12 minutes they saw fit to remove a scene which sounds quite enticing is difficult to comprehend. I sincerely hope it didn't hit the cutting room floor to make way for the tsunami paragliding scene. If it did we should all sign a petition to have Lee Tamahori publically flogged.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    @Birdleson, that hovercraft fist fight has stood out to me with these last few viewings, as well, as pretty impressive and entertaining.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,539
    @Birdleson, I may be in a minority, but I've always loved TSWLM book. Always. I first read it when I was sixteen or seventeen, and then again this past summer (a couple times); I've always found it bloody unique, and to know that Fleming, a hard-boiled-type of writer (with class), was able to realistically write in the voice of Vivienne Michel just shows how talented the man was (brave as well, considering this is a Bond novel where Bond doesn't show up for the first two-thirds).

    Like you, I have respect for Brozzer, but he's not one of my favourite 007s. However, the fantasy you describe above would be absolutely amazing! As you said: no jokes, authentic material; Brosnan would shine in this type of scenario.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    Huh. My flatmate is watching ice skating, so I guess I'll have to DAD...another day.

    Which is a shame, because I was planning to get mildly hammered.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @NicNac , I never noticed the Rik Mayall resemblance before, but that is funny now that you point it out.

    Then I should apologise Birdleson. :)

    Once something like that is in your head it's hard to shake
  • Agent_99 wrote: »
    Huh. My flatmate is watching ice skating, so I guess I'll have to DAD...another day.

    Which is a shame, because I was planning to get mildly hammered.

    Wasn't that a hard-boiled detective character? Mildly Hammered, created by...I dunno...Mikey Spilledsomething?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,422
    God Damn It!

    I wrote up a review on TWINE, when I absent mindlessly closed my word processor without thinking. Smeg.

    That took 2 hours to write up.

    Here's a reheat from one of my other recent Bondathons -

    Ah, Sophie Marceau. Bond thinks he has found found Tracy, but he has actually found Blofeld. From damaged angel with a wing down, to spoilt rich girl with daddy’s issues, Marceau has great fun in the role, hamming in up something rotten during the torture of Bond, and is the highlight to the film. Brosnan looks splendid too. 

    Royale’s Ranking -

    1. From Russia With Love
    2. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    3. Dr. No
    4. Goldfinger
    5. Licence To Kill
    6. Thunderball
    7. The Living Daylights
    8. The Spy Who Loved Me
    9. The World Is Not Enough
    10. Octopussy
    11. For Your Eyes Only
    12. Tomorrow Never Dies
    13. GoldenEye
    14. You Only Live Twice
    15. A View To A Kill
    16. Moonraker
    17. The Man With The Golden Gun
    18. Diamonds Are Forever
    19. Live and Let Die
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 3,564
    The World is Not Enough

    It seems to me that here is one might find the beginning of the modern Bond era. Why here? Because here…here we have too much personal involvement in the case at hand on the part of both Bond, and M. It’s not surprising, I suppose…when you’ve got a big name, high-dollar actor cast in the role of a supporting character, it’s all too understandable that this actor’s role is going to expand to meet the capacities of the performer in question. So: here and beyond, there be more Judi Dench than has ever before been the case for any other M. Perhaps we’ll be getting too much M in future installments of the series, but here she remains a supporting character, albeit one that gets more screen time than Bernard Lee saw in any three Bond films. It’s a slippery slope, and here begins the slippage.

    This storyline has some very interesting ideas…but they’re not always utilized as effectively as they might be. Elektra King: Bond girl or main villain? Hey, why not both? And so it is…and yet, our script shies away from fully acknowledging her villain-hood by trying to cast her as a victim as well as a villain. Is Reynard the true Big Bad? In our initial viewings, we might think as much…but by the time we’ve seen this film three times or more, it’s pretty clear that Elektra is calling the shots and Renard is nothing more than an Oddjob or Jaws-level henchman. Too bad, really: Renard’s inability to feel pain -- or any other physical sensation -- is an interesting twist that the script proposes, one which Renard utilizes effectively up until his final confrontation with Bond aboard the submarine -- and here, he suddenly seems to lose his insensitive state. He appears to feel Bond’s blows in a manner that he really shouldn’t, and the movie loses one of its most interesting qualities because of this (directorial?) lapse.

    This film is about 2/3 brilliant and 1/3 sub-par, and when summing things up I have a hard time giving it a higher grade than a C+. The PTS starts off really nicely with the Swiss banker and the Cigar Girl…then gets even more interesting as MI6 aids & abets the assassination of Sir Robert King…then, finally, goes on just a shade too long as Bond utilizes Q’s fishing boat to pursue the assassin, the previously seen (but never actually named until the credits roll) Cigar Girl. I’d have probably liked this sequence a lot more if they hadn’t had Bond driving the boat across way too many paved streets and through a few buildings in the heart of London. Seen it before and done more realistically in Roger Moore films a decade previously. Cut a few minutes from this sequence and keep Q’s boat in the water, and this sequence would have been brilliant. As it is, we’ve gone just a shade too far and all we have to show for it is Brosnan’s infamous pain face.

    Brosnan’s performance in this film is his most uneven. We follow him perfectly through his various deductions in this film -- realizing that King’s money is booby-trapped, concluding that the amount of money being refunded to King is exactly the same amount as the ransom asked for Elektra many years in the past -- these are the sort of things that are hard to put across in a visual medium, and yet Brosnan makes these mental calculations quite clear to the audience through nothing more than his own skill as an actor. Then we turn around and have a teary-eyed Bond nearly falling in love with the newsreel footage of the captive young Elektra, touching the television screen delicately, as if he were touching the human girl’s face…and I for one have to cringe at the absurdity. Bond is a professional intelligence agent, someone who shouldn’t be so easily touched by several year old television footage. Much of Brosnan’s performance with the human Elektra is quite good really -- comforting her when she gets panicky, buried under an avalanche of snow -- and never is he better than when he is finally forced to shoot her, followed with the observation that “I never miss.” But his confrontation with Elektra once he’s realized that she’s been working with Renard is way too harsh, far too angry. He’s been played and he knows it. So what? He’s played others a thousand times over. The insouciance of Sean Connery when rebuffed by Fiona Volpe in Thunderball would have been a better note for Bond to strike here. I have to think that Brosnan is just playing the script he’s given…and I don’t want to fault Purvis & Wade too much here, as we’re told that uncredited input from a variety of sources had a significant impact on the script as it was shot…but at base, the audience expects Bond to be nothing short of superb over the course of a film, and in this film Bond is pretty much uneven. Brilliant in one scene, played like an amateur in the next, pain-faced from time to time as the script requires it throughout the film as a whole. Does the audience blame P&W? Michael Apted? Barbara and Michael? No. The audience blames Pierce as an imperfect Bond, and this film (followed by DAD) is far more to blame for that assessment than are Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies.

    Denise Richards. Christmas Jones. A nuclear physicist…tasked with disarming Russian nuclear bombs...looking like that. Do I need to say more? This is a film full of high and low points. Her casting is one of those low points. She looks nice in a Lara Croft cosplay outfit…but I don’t believe for a moment that she fits the narrative purpose for which she was intended. And speaking of not fitting the needs of this movie, let us consider...

    John Cleese as R. Like Teri Hatcher in the previous film, his presence here simply disrupts the course of this film for as long as he is onscreen. The presence of Basil Fawlty (or whichever Monty Python character Cleese most fully represents to you) totally shatters the audience’s “willing suspension of disbelief” -- a point that is crucial to fantasy storytelling on this level. First of all, I don’t accept that Q is entirely intended to be a figure of comedy relief in the Bond films. Second of all, R is presented as being totally inept in this, his introductory installment. I’m glad that Desmond Llewellyn was given a respectful farewell scene in this film -- Fleming knows he deserved one! -- but I do wish I could just edit Cleese out of the film entirely. I’d give the extra footage to…

    Robbie Coltrane, whose Valentin Zukovsky again steals the show for every moment he’s onscreen. The free market economy is indeed finally the death of him, but to my mind Zukovsky holds a very special place in the pantheon of Bond’s friendly enemies. Maybe somebody should propose a Zukovsky mini-series to the folks at Dynamite Comics. Come to think of it…maybe that somebody should be me.

    Most of the henchmen in this film --whether Zukovsky’s or Elektra’s, we don’t really see much of Renard’s confederates -- are pretty forgettable. Is Goldie the name of an actor or a character? (Yes, I know. He’s an actor, who plays a character named Bullion, shortened to Bull. Give him an inch and get him out of here.)

    There’s lots of cool action sequences in this film -- I like the blade deployed by helicopter, destroying the Zukovsky’s Finest Caviar Factory, even if it does also destroy Bond's remote-controlled BMW -- but the one that really sticks with us is the submarine at the finale of the movie. As I noted in my previous review, sometimes the folks at Eon will reprise a scenario in the very next film if they don’t think they got it quite right the first time. They did it with the destruction of humanity (to be followed by a rebirth under the Big Bad’s watchful eye) in TSWLM and MR…then they reprised the PTS airplane escape in GE/TND. This time around, they took the battle aboard an aquatic vessel in the finale of TND, and reprised it here in TWINE. They needn’t have bothered. Maybe they thought there was too much automatic weaponry going off in TND. This time around, nary a gun is fired…but Bond seems to know way too much about how to open and close the hatches of this particular Russian submarine remotely. He also seems to have magically acquired the ability to negate Renard’s insensitivity to physical sensation, trading surprisingly effective punches with the quasi-superhuman Renard while ignoring the pain he himself has been alternately masking and revealing throughout the movie. When Bond rescued Wai Lin in the closing moments of TND, I felt a real sense of triumph for our heroes. In the closing moments of TWINE, when Bond impaled Renard on a nuclear control rod and escaped the exploding submarine with Dr. Jones, my only response was, “Well, of course. Can we now look forward to a nice Christmas pun as the credits roll?”

    Yes. We can indeed. Oh well, maybe we can look forward to a surprise or two next time around. Which is to say: watch out what you hope for -- you just might get it.

    MY CURRENT STANDINGS
    1) Goldfinger
    2) From Russia With Love
    3) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    4) Goldeneye
    5) The Spy Who Loved Me
    6) The Living Daylights
    7) Thunderball
    8) Dr. No
    9) For Your Eyes Only
    10) Tomorrow Never Dies
    11) You Only Live Twice
    12) Octopussy
    13) License to Kill
    14) Live And Let Die
    15) The World Is Not Enough
    16) A View to a Kill
    17) DiamondsAre Forever
    18) Moonraker
    19) The Man With the Golden Gun
  • Birdleson wrote: »

    I still don't like the attuned voice. Why that has since become such a popular effect is beyond me. It dehumanizes the music.

    I suspect that dehumanizing the music is the whole point of that particular effect. It does seem to work on this song, which I'll agree is not as annoying now as it was 15 years ago.

    I just finished watching DAD a minute ago. I'll try to have my review up in a few days. Bottom line: this is a half-brilliant, half-terrible offering. Nowhere near as good as a Bond film SHOULD be but not quite as bad as its' reputation...
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Die Another Day - Bond Elements

    The gun barrel has the infamous CGI bullet which is gimmicky and utterly unnecessary.

    The PTS starts with some outstanding surfing. A difficult manoeuvre at the best of times superbly pulled off, but it's ironic that this amazing work will be overshadowed by a similar concept later in the film, but with computer generated effects.

    The look of the PTS with the muddy browns and greens is terrific, and Brosnan is equally excellent throughout.

    The hovercraft chase is loud and chaotic, with the vehicles slipping and sliding across the mud (bookended with a similar idea late in the film when Bond and Zao chase each other in cars on a frozen lake). It's reasonably short and all the better for it as these sort of sequences can often outstay their welcome.

    On balance the PTS works well. And I do like the use of the film titles to progress the story and show how Bond suffers for 14 months at the hands of the kinky lady torturer; although Bond looks very healthy at the end of it - even gains a few pounds maybe.

    Perhaps they used unusual torture techniques.

    'Tell us what we want to know Mr Bond, or we shall feed you another sausage'

    Assessing the gadgets is a little different here. Due to this being the anniversary Bond film we get a nostalgic look at some of Bonds old gadgets in Q's lab. We all know what it entails but it adds nothing to proceedings.

    Another gimmicky wrist watch complete with laser, a high frequency ring thing that shatters glass, and a return of Bond's miniature breathing tool from Thunderball.

    The film takes a poke at Bond's heady lifestyle as he enters the Yacht club in Hong Kong looking like a hobo and is greeted by the manager as if he's the President of the USA. He doesn't even have a 'credit carte' as the receptionist amusingly says.

    The jokes work well at times. The girl's casual greeting to Bond after he punches the South African gangster's lights out is amusing. (In this film a single fist punch appears fatal. The gangster shows no signs of coming round after the punch, and later in the plane when Jinx punches the pilot, he remains unconscious for the duration!)

    Best of all is Graves assistant who unhelpfully points out to Graves at the absolute worst moment that (Bond) "he beat your time, boss"

    The biggest laugh in the cinema was reserved for Moneypenny's climatic clinch with Bond which transpires to be her using Q's virtual reality glasses. It didn't deserve such acclamation, but after the previous half hour of noise and mayhem people were ready to laugh at anything.

    Some of the action is really good. The 'cock fight' (as Verity puts it) is intense and brutal with Stephens and Brosnan entering into it with true gusto.

    The fight between Bond and Zao at the clinic works well - even though the annoying use of jerky slo-mo gets a bit too much at times. Not just in this scene but throughout the film.

    The action from the Iceland scenes onwards are lengthy and in the main, quite draining despite some great car stunts on the frozen lake.

    The CGI is shocking and drags the film to unforeseen depths from which it struggles to recover.

    A favourite Bond trick is to throw Bond into a hot climate and contra it with a cold climate (even as late as Spectre we are still getting this). Bond gets to visit Cuba, Iceland, North Korea and more than any other time in the Brosnan era I felt the locations were used well and looked superb.

    The plot about uniting Korea (I think - honestly I do tend to zone out when Graves prattles on in this film) is ok, and we have the 'second sun', Icarus, which is presented as a saviour to mankind but is actually going to be used to destroy the land mines between North and South. (please correct me if that's wrong - like I say Graves doesn't exactly grab my attention with his sneery platitudes.)

    It's a combination of old 60s/70s Bond mad men with their fancy ideas of destroying the world with more modern day Bond villains (80s - 90s) and their more grounded but equally ambitious plans based on more realistic political scenarios.

    It's still a bit Diamonds Are Forever for all of that. And in the end exactly where Graves came from, what he is trying to achieve and how he is trying to do it would surely have made world powers and the press of course a teensy weensy bit more suspicious than they appeared to be.

    But, the Bond elements were there, present and correct. Vodka martini was ordered, tuxedo neatly pressed, girls fell in to bed with Bond, and Bond still sleeps with a gun under his pillow (bad move in this film I can tell you). The steamy scene with Jinx complete with shared melon is nauseous.

    And the dialogue. The double entendres come thick and fast and leave one speechless. Brosnan and Berry should have refused to do them, but I guess Brosnan just loved the job of being Bond and Berry had just won an Oscar. Why should either of them really care?

  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Huh. My flatmate is watching ice skating, so I guess I'll have to DAD...another day.

    Which is a shame, because I was planning to get mildly hammered.

    Wasn't that a hard-boiled detective character? Mildly Hammered, created by...I dunno...Mikey Spilledsomething?

    Why, yes! Author of My Gin Is Quick and One Boozy Night, amongst other classics.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 40,492
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You make some good points towards your our initial premise. TWINE is where the template changed (pretty much for every film that follows, except maybe DAD). Funny that it is also where Purvis and Wade come on board.

    And they've stuck around ever since starting their work in the series with TWINE; perhaps some new writers can dial it all back and give us something more straight-forward next time around.

    Die Another Day:

    TITLE SONG:

    While I loved it growing up, it wore on me after a while, eventually to be analyzed and re-enjoyed by yours truly. It's not my favorite, but it's good enough for me - could've done without the Madonna cameo, however.

    TITLE SEQUENCE:

    Probably one of the biggest flip-flops I've had, as it used to be my least favorite TS, and now I really enjoy it. The mixture of electric, fiery, and icy women clash really well together, and while I'm still not crazy about the awkward looking scorpions that are present throughout, it's still a very well shot title sequence, with a lot of good shots; the water dripping onto the fiery Bond girls, the steam and condensation, the flames, etc.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Creasy - title change required? Die Another Day ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    NicNac wrote: »
    Creasy - title change required? Die Another Day ;)

    You're telling me that wasn't Madonna singing 'The World Is Not Enough'?? Fixed! Thanks for the alert.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 7,571
    On reflection we have Garbage singing The World Is Not Enough,
    And Madonna singing garbage.

    Too clever for my own good sometimes.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    edited February 2017 Posts: 4,151
    Die Another Day - Cast notes

    Pierce Brosnan is on top form here and, despite being one of the lesser loved Bond movies, he puts in a performance that outshines everyone, very easily. He is great all the way through and, despite the awful innuendos littered throughout, he does his best with what he is given. He is, especially, brilliant during the post title scenes, dishevelled, looking broken but not, still ensuring that he's doing his job in giving no information to his captors. His slight looks of anguish as he believes he's being put to the fire squad, still saying nothing, Brosnan is superb. It's a shame that he left with this movie, it really is, he looked good, performance was great, a decent story and movie could have been an outstanding success.

    Toby Stephens - snarling and sneering his way through the movie as Gustav Graves, the cocky and arrogant villain of the piece who, after all the alterations to his face, body, accent etc. is a man who needs no sleep. To be fair, considering he doesn't sleep he looks well on it. Things about the character that niggle me, in just over a year, he has had extensive work done, face, body, skin tone, accent, English and so on, plus, in that time, he's also find amazing things that have ended with him being knighted ( I assume he was Sir Gustave Graves for most of the movie? ). For so much to happen in such a short time is a little too much to be believed. As for Stephens, he's ok I guess, but not a memorable villain really. It's funny with Stephens now though, having seen Did Another Day, the listening to him as 007 in the BBC Radio 4 plays. I enjoy those but, because it's Stephens, it's difficult not to think about GG and he still has that sneer. I must say, though, that the scene where he kills his father is a strong one and well players.....Despite that stupid suit Graves is wearing.

    I would have liked to have seen more of Colonel Moon, as opposed to him being altered to become Graves. Will Yun Lee left me wanting more of him and his turn as Moon was very good.

    Rick Yune is a decent henchman. He looks and acts like he could be a danger to anyone, even in the pts before his partial change. Very good in a fight. I like the Diamond Acne, they give him an originality and a nice nod to henchmen of old.

    Mr Kil - waste of time and only there for the one-liner.

    Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost is another highlight of this movie. Is she good, is she bad? Keeps us guessing although it quickly became obvious before she turned her gun on Bond. A great addition to the cast. One thing though - why was she wearing that outfit on the plane during her fight with Jinx? Strange outfit to have on, for me, and seemed to be just there to show off her figure.

    Speaking of figures, Halle Berry is quite a stunner, I'm sure we can all agree and coming out of the sea, she looked great in the homage to Ursula Andreas. However, the slow motion spoilt it and made it look more like a perfume advert. Then, if she swung her hips any harder she'd have come apart. On from there, she's dull, boring, unconvincing with a gun, too many crappy innuendos and there because she'd won the Oscar for Monsters Ball not long before. The steamy scene between herself and Brosnan was not needed and not something I am keen on seeing in a Bond movie. Again, because she did similar in Monsters Ball. Less is more, as they say. All the talk of a spin off at the time was extremely unfounded.

    Judi Dench is, ever reliable, as M, John Cleese, as Q, is not on Basil Fawlty mode this time around and I enjoy the scene with Bond. Samantha Bond as Moneypenny is ok, but I do hate that scene where she is kissing 007 in VR, there for a laugh only and not needed. As with others, I enjoyed seeing Charles Robinson "in the field" with Bond, even if in VR. Michael Madsen, who I generally like, is ok.

    As for the cameo of Madonna, the less said of that the better. Crammed in there for, god know what reason, she is wooden and, actually, comes across as a singer trying to act. Her "cock fight" line really irks me. It's a crappy line as it is, without her awful delivery.

    I've probably missed a few here but I will return if I think of anything more.



  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,492
    @Shark_0f_Largo, I believe you meant to say 'VR'? I kept wondering how I missed the likes of Charles Robinson and Moneypenny in CR after all these years!
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    edited February 2017 Posts: 4,151
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Shark_0f_Largo, I believe you meant to say 'VR'? I kept wondering how I missed the likes of Charles Robinson and Moneypenny in CR after all these years!
    Haha, quite correct sir. Typed up on my phone so autocorrect is in full force. My post now amended. Hope that is all the errors, haha. Cheers.

  • Agent_99 wrote: »
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Huh. My flatmate is watching ice skating, so I guess I'll have to DAD...another day.

    Which is a shame, because I was planning to get mildly hammered.

    Wasn't that a hard-boiled detective character? Mildly Hammered, created by...I dunno...Mikey Spilledsomething?

    Why, yes! Author of My Gin Is Quick and One Boozy Night, amongst other classics.

    My own personal favorite is Kiss Me Drunkenly but each to their own...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    And this is why you should only post on the internet when you're sober.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 3,564
    Sorry, @0Brady...but I've just been watching:

    Die Another Day

    Pierce really deserved better for his final shot at the role of Bond, James Bond. So did we, and so did the Bond franchise’s 40th anniversary…but this is what we got. I guess we’ll just have to live and let die another day…

    If TWINE was ½ brilliant and ½ under par then DAD continues the downhill slide, scoring (in my assessment) as 1/3 brilliant and 2/3 inexcusable. The PTS in North Korea, from the three-man surfing entrance to the remarkable hovercraft chase through the DMZ and climaxing with Bond’s capture by the North Korean army, is an excellent sequence, followed very nicely by some effective storytelling in the theme itself -- a first for the series -- as Bond is tortured for 14 months by Madonna and the technoKoreans. Bond’s release in an exchange for Diamond-faced Zao is one of Brosnan’s high points in his career as 007. His ensuing scene with M reminds me greatly of the opening sequence in the novel version of The Man With the Golden Gun, as an untrustworthy Bond faces his boss, who is shielded by a sheet of unbreakable glass. Escaping the grasp of MI-6, the hairy, unkempt 007 shows up at a hotel he knows to be staffed by agents of Chinese intelligence…and utilizes their resources to carry on his mission of vengeance and redemption. Great stuff, all of it, really the contents of a first-rate Bond adventure. The trail leads to Cuba, where we find Emilio Echevarria as a really cool sleeper agent and some more top-flight Bond action in a small Caribbean island-based gene therapy clinic…and then we get Jinxed. The film never recovers.

    Bad CGI. Poorly-considered attempts at science fiction in a comic book vein (and this from a fan of both comic books and science fiction.) Really, really cheesy dialogue about feasting predators and…oh, Yo Mama. Do I have to go on?

    Yes, I suppose I must. Obvious, forced references to previous Bond films. Does this still work? No, not really, but we’ve got 80 more minutes or so to go and it’ll end up making a lot of money for MGM anyway so let’s all just be professionals and suck it up, shall we?

    So Colonel Moon from our really fine PTS has had gene therapy and everything goes sideways/upside down all at the same time. The excellent Will Yun Lee now looks like the terminally over-emoting Toby Stephens who has, in the space of 14 months, emerged onto the world stage with a brand new media-centric identity, “discovered” a diamond mine whose products have a questionable provenance, adopted British citizenry, been knighted, and oh yeah, erected a miraculous satellite that can send concentrated solar radiation anywhere Moon aka Gustav Graves would care to send it because (A) Hey, it’s easy! Science, kids!!! and (B) It’s not like THAT’s ever been a problem in any other Bond film, has it?

    Now let’s think about this for just a moment: all that in fourteen months? I’m sorry, but “He doesn’t sleep at all so of course he can get all that done in just 14 months” simply doesn’t cut it. Neither does an ice palace next to Graves' diamond mine in Iceland or Madonna as a fencing instructor or…or….. Okay, I’ll accept the invisible car.

    WHAT??? Heresy!! The invisible car is one of the most despised aspects of this film! It’s more bad science! It’s…it’s… it’s a comic book version of James Bond. Granted. That’s exactly what it is. I accepted in 1967 that Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. had an invisible car. By 2002, in the benighted parameters of this film I’m willing to accept that James Bond has finally caught up with Nick Fury. James Bond has an invisible car. That he can take to the really poorly-done CGI parasailing tsunami.

    Rosalind Pike is luminous as Miranda Frost and I don’t care WHY she dresses up in that tight outfit to have a sword fight with Jinx in the waning moments of our film. She looks great in it and if we’re going to have a catfight then sure, let’s make sure our ladies are wearing tight, semi-revealing outfits. Bond and Graves had a rousing sword fight earlier in the film and they were wearing sweaty undershirts so turnabout is fair play, right? Not really, but this is what we get for the landmark 20th James Bond film: moment after moment of exhilarating action that’s entertaining enough if we turn off our critical faculties and just let it fly, but empty and soulless and juvenile once we actually stop and try to make sense of it all. Kenneth Tsang has an entirely thankless role as our bad guy’s father, General Moon, trying to bring some dignity to this sloppy mess. Hale Berry should've been asked to give back her Oscar after her performance as Jinx in this film. It’s nice to see Colin Salmon again briefly as Charles Robinson. Michael Madsen is just generally unlikable as Falco, ranking NSA agent for this film because I guess we need some warm-up sleaze from the American intelligence community until Gregory Beame can show up a few more films down the road. And John Cleese is at least bearable as Q this time around. We call him…the Vanish. Bye-bye, John, I hope you weren’t depending on this as a steady gig…

    And Moneypenny. Oh dear. Samantha…about those virtual reality goggles? Lois Maxwell would like to have a word with you….

    I’ll bring it to a close here. I could go on about Graves’ stupid Robocop suit or the vapidity of Vlad and Mr. Kil or…half a dozen other things, but why bother? Lee Tamahori’s name will forever burn in the Bond pantheon as one of the least inspired directors ever to have his name attached to a 007 film. Tamahori really needs to apologize to North Korea after making this movie and folks, that's saying something. Purvis & Wade are thankful that Tamahori’s there to take the blame for this...unique concoction. And Barbara and Michael… they need to reboot this franchise, stat.

    MY CURRENT STANDINGS
    1) Goldfinger
    2) From Russia With Love
    3) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
    4) Goldeneye
    5) The Spy Who Loved Me
    6) The Living Daylights
    7) Thunderball
    8) Dr. No
    9) For Your Eyes Only
    10) Tomorrow Never Dies
    11) You Only Live Twice
    12) Octopussy
    13) License to Kill
    14) Live And Let Die
    15) The World Is Not Enough
    16) A View to a Kill
    17) DiamondsAre Forever
    18) Moonraker
    19) The Man With the Golden Gun
    20) Die Another Day
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    love it Beatles, love it! :)

    Die Another Day - Production Notes

    Lee Tamahori was like Charlie in the chocolate factory, throwing everything (apart from the kitchen sink) at his Bond movie.

    It makes for a strange two hours or so as we watch an initially dark film get lighter and lighter until it culminates in Bond and Jinx (off camera) literally reduced to Carry On jokes

    "Better take it out"
    "Leave it in a little longer
    "

    Sid James and Barbara Windsor would've refused to deliver some of this dialogue.

    Still, after the more ponderous and earnest The World Is Not Enough it's a nice idea to have a fast paced, frothy picture. Just not this frothy.

    The titles with Bond being tortured are accompanied by Madonna's song. Bond is apparently tortured for 14 months, and the song feels like it goes on for the same amount of time, so it all comes together nicely.

    This is a great title sequence with a different approach and is probably the most ground breaking Bond titles opener since Maurice Binder stuck Sheena Easton over the titles of For Your Eyes Only.

    The script is a bit of a mess. The style and feel of the early scenes change completely as soon as Bond gets a hair cut. And as the film plunges into the all too familiar world of invisible cars and drag racers that morph into wind surfing kits we leave the movie theatres with mixed emotions, confused dream like memories of a film which for a short period of time seemed to be on a par with the best of the 70s and 80s Bonds.

    I did like the idea that Moon modelled his Western self on Bond.

    I liked Bond's sun glasses in Cuba.

    Zao coming out of the mist during the exchange is nicely shot.

    The clinic reminds me of Dr No's lair, which is probably the point. And when all hell breaks lose we see nurses running up and down corridors just like the great Dr No climax.

    The music by David Arnold is ok, but the worst Bond theme song ever is actually revived in a different format for the closing credits. So we get 'Die Another Day' by Madonna twice!

    Bond gets his 00 status rescinded...again!

    What else?

    One annoying edit fault. A scene where Bond and Jinx meet in the ice palace is spliced in half and a Graves/Zao scene awkwardly stuck in the middle.

    And the jerky slo-mo is used several times for no real reason. It certainly doesn't have an impact and reminds me of the fight between Scar and Simba at the end of The Lion King. Now there is a good film.

    The sets are pretty spectacular. The ice palace, the underground station, the Yacht Club, Blades etc. Plenty of money on the screen and some dazzling sets.

    Like everyone else I do like quite a lot of this one, but the bad parts drag it down to unforeseen lows.

    To the casual viewer it's a fun and totally diverting slab of entertainment. Like eating a Big Mac you can enjoy it while it lasts and forget about it after.
    But for us hard core fans it's because so much of the film is done well that we feel so completely let down by the end.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,108
    Review to follow, meanwhile I'll just leave this here:

    209151_original.png
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Ah'm checkin' out.
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