MI6 Community Bondathon

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  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,114
    And I’m going to be super annoying and come late to the TLD party with some scattergun thoughts, sorry.

    This is a great PTS even though Bond's outfit seems to be channeling the Milk Tray Man, in a case of the original imitating the parody. I think Tim carries off the comedy moment at the end nicely and I adore that chunky '80s portable phone, which no doubt cost £££ at the time.

    The theme song is one of my favourites: very punchy and stirring, and of its time in a way that makes me appreciate it more as the decades roll on rather than wince at it.

    Cards on table, heart on sleeve, I love Dalton’s Bond a lot. He has a delightful range of facial expressions, of which my favourite is the amused grin that suggests he’s quite surprised to be finding whatever it is so damn funny. I enjoy watching his reactions to the world around him (and, frankly, just looking at him, as he's very easy on the eye). Favourite outfit probably the jumper/leather coat ensemble from Bratislava. Worst outfit: enormous desert trousers.

    The girl is an odd one: singleminded about her career, endearingly hopeless at most non-cello-related tasks, and strangely reluctant to ditch the awful Georgi for the attractive 007 (which I would do in a heartbeat, obviously). But at least there’s some character going on here. I like her best when the KGB grab her on the tram; she looks at the absolute end of her rope and I can see why Bond would want to protect her.

    The villains are mostly pretty bland, but Necros is superb. I’ve always found the way he keeps his Walkman on, and the blasts of music, unbearably sinister. He reminds me a bit of Red Grant in FRWL: the physically fit psycho.

    Standout of the supporting cast is Art Malik, purely because I was at boarding-school with his niece (and watched TLD with her the first time I saw it). She never did get me that autograph. Rosika is also good value, and treated with respect when she could have just been a joke character. I’d like to know more of her previous adventures with Bond.

    Back at MI6, Q looks like he’s having a lot of fun as usual, and seems to play off Dalton’s Bond pretty well. Caroline Bliss’s Moneypenny is a bit giddy and my least favourite in the role, but might have settled down with more films. (Since it was off-camera, I am choosing to believe Bond slapped his thigh or something, rather than patting her on the bum.)

    Locations: I like the very atmospheric European ones best, especially Vienna’s funfair, which is on my To Visit list.

    Some good fights; the cargo plane is the pinnacle, but I also enjoy the air base prison and the rumble in the safe house.

    The car chase, and cello chase, on ice is a favourite of mine. I’m a sucker for snow in Bond films, and I love this easy way of getting through passport control (reminds me of the guy who entered West Berlin by driving his convertible under the barrier at Checkpoint Charlie).

    Misc:

    The sequence in which Kara flies the Herc (sorry, 'Russian transport aircraft') while Bond messes around in the back may be my favourite scene in any Bond film, even though I spend it itching to grab the controls and fly the damn thing properly. (I am not a pilot, but I could do a better job than that. To be fair, though, I cannot play the cello.)

    There’s a feast of plane porn in this one, if you like planes (which I do). The might of the ‘80s RAF is represented by a Hercules, Nimrod and Harrier, while there’s stuff on the ground at the Russian airbase I’m not skilled enough to identify (I think I spotted an OV-10 Bronco, and I want to say the little fighters look like A-4 Skyhawks but I might be way off).

    This is probably my first Bond film to be contemporary when I originally watched it and read like a historical artifact today. A good one to watch back to back with GE (as indeed I did last night), to see the Cold War play out and the new era play in.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,513
    @Agent_99, no worries, happy to have you participating. I've always felt the same way about the villains - mostly forgettable, but Necros is always a standout.

    I can't even imagine getting to watch a Bond film with a fellow fan such as myself, let alone watching one with a family member of one of the cast members. Very cool!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,513
    @Birdleson, I'll be doing it. Been eyeing my collection for a while now, looking forward to finally going through them after this whole thing ends.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'm in.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    I'll certainly give it a try. I'll be honest, I'm not too much of a novel reader (more biographies and reference books are my general reads, along with a comic book or two) and this would be my first journey into the world of the Fleming novels. I'll have a go though.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,114
    @Birdleson, very up for the books; I'm much more familiar with them than the films, TBH.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Some corrections...

    I decided to rewatch The Living Daylights while doing the write-up, and found myself enjoying it heaps and bounds above the first time (this has happened before in the Bondathon with other films). My mood must have been off and my body a little too tired the first go around, as this time many of the problems that were lingering in my head felt much better to me on a better re-examination. Kara came off as a far more endearing character, Dalton felt far more balanced in performance and I appreciate the greater scheme/plot more.

    These thoughts will be reflected in the analysis, which I'll exclude from posting here to avoid cluttering the space. All of it will likely go into the review thread here for The Living Daylights once I have it polished/edited to be consumed.

    Also, another correction to an error I'm seeing written about here and there. I saw some people, namely @Birdleson and @Thunderfinger, criticizing Whitaker's death and how Bond doesn't aim at vital spots to kill him, when their concerns are addressed in the scene itself if you're quick to catch it. As Whitaker first opens fire, Bond ducks and runs for cover, without firing a shot. He comes out of cover as Whitaker approaches him, visible from his knees up, the plate guarding his face atop his big gun. Bond takes three shots at Whitaker at this point, one of which hits him right in the stomach, another that appears to land near his heart, and the last is sent right into his left arm. Sparks register as Bond makes these shots on Whitaker's body that he sprays strategically from the left to right at any vitals that are visible to him, because the villain's torso, even his arms, are covered in a high-tech layer of armor that deflects the Walther bullets. You can even see the singe marks in Whitaker's uniform around his arm and stomach where Bond's bullets landed as he continues to try and kill 007 and the light hits him at a better angle. It's only when Bond fails to kill him with body shots that he then lands five more hits at the transparent guard Whitaker has, with nothing left to fire at besides.

    I think some missed that, but I had to speak up as it bugged me too until I really did a study of the scene and looked at where Bond's shots were landing.

    My ranking with the recent viewing taken into consideration...

    Bondathon Ranking (2016-2017)

    1.) From Russia With Love
    2.) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3.) Thunderball
    4.) Dr. No
    5.) The Living Daylights
    6.) Diamonds Are Forever
    7.) Goldfinger
    8.) You Only Live Twice[/quote]
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,513
    Licence To Kill:

    PTS:

    Not as great as its predecessor, but still pretty entertaining, with its fair share of good moments. It doesn't necessarily pick up until Bond/Felix and Sanchez/his men finally meet up, but before that, we're given a rather sinister introduction to Sanchez, through his whipping of Lupe and murder of her lover (who surely didn't know who Lupe was with, lest he would've been far away from there by the time Sanchez arrived), which immediately makes him a nefarious opponent for Bond to tackle throughout the rest of the movie.

    Past this, there isn't too much in the action department - Sanchez flees in a plane, his goons and girl fleeing in another direction, and Bond and Felix flee after the former in hopes of catching him before Felix's wedding, which they do, thanks to a cool mid-air, plane-to-plane capture by Bond's hand. My favorite moment in the PTS probably comes immediately after, when he and a gleeful Felix hop off and parachute in unison to an awaiting Della and Sharkey. Good stuff.

    Title Song/Sequence:

    Another forgettable title sequence, unfortunately, but I will say that it seems to be much better than its predecessor's, as well. The title song performed by Gladys Knight is great, albeit surprisingly not one of my favorites, as there are plenty of others I enjoy more than this one.

    Finale:

    What a thrilling conclusion that gives us a lot to enjoy, while subsequently being rather epic in scope. Amidst the chaos of Bond destroying the factory, we see him tussle with (and finally dispatch) Dario using the most brutal methods, before finally taking off after Sanchez and his men. The tanker chase is exciting, and we get some pretty unique moments, like Bond two-wheeling a giant 18-wheeler to avoid a Stinger missile, or decoupling the tanker of one of the cabs to take out one at the bottom of the hill. Alongside some aerial assistance from Pam, Bond and Sanchez finally duel, before the latter has his skin quickly removed, thanks to Bond's lighter. I also like the fact that after Bond succeeds, they all go back to Sanchez's place to party. It's also surprising that Lupe is so quick to go from Bond to President Lopez, but it is what it is.

    I also noticed the Surgeon General's warning during the credits; is this the only Bond film to do this, or have I simply never caught it before? Seems fitting for LTK, given that this is the last time Bond ever has a cigarette (and likely ever will).

    Will post my more in-depth thoughts before Thursday night; already looking forward to rewatching this one.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Licence To Kill - Actor Notes

    It's a curious fact that Daniel Craig has been accused of turning James Bond into a thuggish killing machine, bull-dozing his way through everything and everybody to reach his ultimate goal.

    Well, welcome to the original thuggish killing machine, bulldozing his way through everything and everybody to reach his ultimate goal! Timothy Dalton in Licence To Kill
    Now, I'm not saying this is wrong, or a bad thing, just that we have a new, rather off kilter interpretation of James Bond within the original time-line.

    Irritable, irrational, clumsy, he blunders along without thought for anyone’s safety. He manages to scupper the Chinese operation, destroy Pam’s negotiations with Heller, he disobeys M and shows no respect for his position, his superiors or his comrades.

    And why? Because his besty has been chewed a bit by an iddy widdy shark, and Leiter's wife raped and murdered. Diddums!

    Ok, seriously, I do find it a little unreasonable and illogical that Bond would go off on such a tangent based on what has happened. In the past Bond has remained calm and rational when faced by personal tragedy, often manipulating M to let him go off on a tangent. It happened in Thunderball, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Man With The Golden Gun, even Moonraker for heaven's sake, but here he loses all sense of reasoning.

    Which is fine up to a point; after all we see Daniel Craig doing similar stuff.

    However, Dalton gurns and postures, snorts, hisses and growls his way through the movie, only stopping now and then to offer that rather disturbing laugh of his.

    I just don't buy into this performance. In quieter pre-chewed Leiter moments (such as when he first meets Lupe in the PTS) Dalton is quite engaging. And he looks good as well.

    One of his best scenes, watching Sanchez on TV, was cut from the film. Ah well, that's life.

    Bond here has non of the poise, non of the class, or timeless elegance on show previously. Connery, Lazenby and Moore understood that ultimately Bond was a class act. Now, he can't even be bothered to get a decent hair cut.

    The main villain Robert Davi as Sanchez, gives the film's stand out performance. The calmer he is the more dangerous you sense he becomes. When he first meets Bond it's Bond acting the tough mother, but Sanchez who you actually piss your pants watching.

    He also gets the films most memorable lines, which isn't saying much.

    A young Benicio del Torro also gives a great performance as Sanchez's pet killer (rather too fond of each other if you ask me). It was clear from this that he would go on to bigger and better things.

    Anthony Zerbe a fine and underrated support actor is also good. In fact the villains are well cast and well played all round, including Anthony Starke as the rather annoying money man Truman-Lodge.

    Now, the girls. Carey Lowell is mouthy CIA pilot Pam Bouvier. Ultimately another feminist who bristles at the idea of her posing as Bond's private secretary. 'Why can't you be my secretary?' she demands of Bond as if this is all a game.

    They are like an on again off again couple, arguing about who saved who during the bar room brawl, then making out minutes later when the boat conks out. Then they argue about whether she should assist Bond or not, then she's jealous because he gets the eye from Lupe. And on and on and on. For God's sake someone knock their heads together.

    Lupe. Apparently the actress developed her own back story for Lupe whereby she was secretly planning on taking over Sanchez's business empire. In one scene she wanted Lupe to be seen reading a book about big business.

    Well my darling, it may have been a good starting point to actually act the part as if Lupe had something other than porridge between her ears.

    David Hedison is back as Leiter looking 20 years older than the actor in The Living Daylights.
    Caroline Bliss has one scene as Moneypenny lasting about 30 seconds. Maybe could have done with trimming the scene down a little.

    An unusual piece of casting was Wayne Newton as Joe Butcher a TV celebrity who links the drug barons to the buyers. Quite a clever idea, and Newton is clearly not scared to play Butcher as a sleazy opportunist.

    Overall the cast is quite good, despite the material they have to play with.



  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited January 2017 Posts: 40,513
    I, too, have never seen Soto in anything other than LTK, but damn, if she doesn't age wonderfully. She's almost 50, yet it looks like she's aged only a few years since LTK debuted, nearly thirty years ago.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Carey still has the best leg of any bond girl ;)
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    I think Soto appeared in a Mortal Kombat movie didn't she?

    Also, yes, Lowell does have great legs.
  • Carey Lowell was on a season or two of Law & Order, if memory serves...
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Licence To Kill - Bone Elelments

    PTS. We had a taught, pacey PTS in The Living Daylights, with Dalton hanging on to a jeep for dear life.

    Here it's all a little stop/start featuring Bond, Leiter, Sharky, Sanchez, Lupe, Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    For whatever reason Glen includes a brief moment of slow mo as Leiter and his men run towards the bad guys (who watch on at normal speed). A strange moment.

    Towards the end Dalton hangs from a plane on a rope as he attempts to capture Sanchez, and he does look rather comical hanging there, flapping his arms.

    The PTS ends with Bond and Leiter, in wedding gear, leaping from the plane to attend Leiter's wedding.

    It's a bit of a mess really, but it's almost saved by the film's stand out comic moment as Bond's and Leiter's parachutes, trailing from their still attached back packs are picked up by Della's bridesmaids as if they were wedding trains, and carried in to the church.

    Locations are a let down. Some lovely sunny climes in Florida and later in South America are given not an ounce of vibrancy.

    Thank the lord Bond has ditched the whistling key fob. Q turns up to give Bond some exploding tooth paste, and a signature gun (so good evidently they brought it back in Spectre ).

    The action gives the film a dose of respectability. There is an enjoyable gun fight in an aquarium, a reasonably diverting bar room brawl, some good underwater sequences culminating in Bond brilliantly free ski-ing behind Krest's aeroplane, and a climatic tanker chase that all but saves the film from total mediocrity. The tankers dancing and bouncing down the winding mountain road is utterly epic and arguably one of the great climatic sequences in the franchise.

    Humour - well I mentioned the parachutes doubling as wedding trains, which was inspired, but otherwise the humour was of the blackest type (assuming Krest's exploding head was meant to make us laugh).

    Bond dropped one or two lines in

    "I hope you don't snore Q" and
    "Looks like he came to a dead end"

    and you could see the tumbleweed blowing across the set.

    Sanchez had a couple of moments where lines such as "Like a leedle bird" (referring to Bond flying the plane away full of drugs), made you realise how a capable movie actor can turn an unfunny line into a funny one. That moment made me smile.

    The other is the barely veiled threat to El Presidento

    "Remember! You are only President for life"

    which would creep anybody out, and it's why Davi quietly steals every scene he is in.

    Another drug story though. Never thought I would miss the likes of Blofeld, Drax and Stromberg with their wonderfully mad plans to blow the world up. But it's all ok I guess. Whether the idea of putting the drugs in to fuel tankers, and somehow separating it all later would work in practice I don't know? I guess the writers did their homework so hats off to them for the idea.

    Typical Bond elements include a casino scene with a starched Bond grimly marching in, as opposed to gliding in confidently as Connery and Lazenby did.

    But we get a bit of gambling, Bond gets a 'perfect' vodka martini, and two girls are pouting over him. That should all be a perfect recipe for classic Bond casino scene, but it never gets near to being a good scene, never mind a great one.





  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    edited February 2017 Posts: 7,571
    @Birdleson mentions Ed Killifer. I forgot him. He reminds me a little of Gregg Beam in Quantum Of Solace, a corrupt, self-confident CIA colleague of Leiter's who would climb into bed with anyone if it helped him along.

    The late great SirHenry once loved my adjective to describe Beam - 'odious'. He happily used it liberally from then on in and I think in honour of him and in honour of David Harbour I will use it once more.

    Everett McGill is splendid as the odious Killifer.
  • If I remember right, Raymond Benson interviewed Dalton after it LTK's release, and called it "the best Bond movie since Thunderball". It was either in Bondage magazine, or the UK Bond Fan Club magazine. I'd love to re-read it and see if my memory is correct.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    There are one or two here who would agree. I think it's about the worst, but I know I'm on my own in that. It's healthy to hold diverse opinions about such matters.
    ;)
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    NicNac wrote: »
    Licence To Kill - Bone Elelments


    For whatever reason Glen includes a brief moment of slow mo as Leiter and his men run towards the bad guys (who watch on at normal speed). A strange moment.

    Ah, I was meant to mention something about this in my own thoughts, posted the other day. As I was in a rush, and time is short this week, I forgot.

    Anyway, I agree, it was a very strange addition to the PTS and certainly wasn't needed.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Maybe David Heddison was struggling to run as fast as the younger actors. :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @Birdleson, Q Branch are mentioned two or three times throughoyt the books. Dealing with medical issues in one of them, I believe it is LALD.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Licence To Kill - Production Notes

    For some reason the titles seem to be designed around Kodak and Olympus getting a healthy nod, despite the film not really having anything to do with cameras or overt filming or what have you.

    With GoldenEye the main titles would introduce real significance with the symbolic destruction of the USSR. In The World Is Not Enough the titles have oil drenched dancing girls.

    Here the once great Maurice Binder is clearly out of ideas.

    John Glen ends his tenure as Bond director and is apparently especially proud of this one. Why, is a little beyond me. It's a tougher Bond, that's for sure, but Glen isolates a lot of his audience with some of the gratuitous violence attracting a higher than normal classification. Bond has always had violence that shocks, right back to Bond shooting an unarmed man in Dr No, but here it goes further, possibly in a mistaken attempt to keep up with the more graphic violence of Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.

    10 years on from Moonraker things have changed dramatically in the world of Bond. It's good to experiment, and good to find links to Fleming's work, but if you are going to make this kind of film, you need a filmmaker with vision, and style.

    Hardly any quotable dialogue apart from a couple of lines from Sanchez which I have already quoted.

    Some of the editing in the action scenes is good, creating just enough tension. Other times it confuses the viewer (how many times do we watch the film before we realise Bond doesn't kick M in the stomach?)

    The film has quite a large cast and a whole plethora of extras, especially at the wedding where the extras really do look and act like extras.

    There is no sense of a large scale epic of an adventure film. But maybe that's the point. Maybe the hard hitting story of drug barons and Oriental gangsters is the thing here. Maybe Glen didn't want glamour, humour or an ironic, skirt-chasing James Bond to distract from proceedings? If so, then he got it spot on.

    Last word for the forgotten man. Della's father who warned her the wedding was a bad idea. He was right because his daughter had hours to live. To dads of daughters everywhere, I at least felt your pain old fellow. Just sorry Leiter and Bond didn't.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @NicNac , according to the credits, that was Della's uncle, not her father.
    Oops...my bad :)

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,571
    Sorry Felix...sorry James
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There is a magic x-ray camera in there.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    That x-ray camera, oh dear. Not only takes an x-ray of Bond and Q, but of the photo behind them too. I'd love to read an explanation on how that happened.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    One of the silliest and most absurd scenes in the whole series.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Have to agree, a crazy moment, surprised it stayed as it was.
  • Have to agree, a crazy moment, surprised it stayed as it was.

    I think there's a whole deleted sub-plot here. The scene with the X-Ray camera takes place late at night, just as Bond's team is about to bed down for the night. The next scene ALSO takes place at night -- the NEXT night -- as Bond places his plastic explosive outside Sanchez' window. Are we to believe that nothing at all happened during the daylight hours? I say no! I say there was somebody observing our team, hiding behind the photo and exposed by the X-Ray camera. The following day Bond, Miss Kennedy, and Q, investigate and dispose of the mystery Peeking-Tomas. Maybe someday an Ultimate Director's Cut will reveal the truth behind this mystery sub-plot...

    ...but probably not. Oh well! :-/
  • Was LTK a summer release in the UK? I seem to remember having lots of free time that year - probably on the dole again - and I went to see it loads of times. I watched it again today and though I still enjoy it, it looks very cheaply made compared to the Craig-era Bonds.
    My DVD copy still looks weird after being used the cinema version so much. The extra gore always surprises me when I watch it. I think the extended bits are -

    1) Sanchez whipping Lupe
    2) Leiter's shark encounter
    3) Dario in the grinder
    4) Heller's 'dead end'
    5) Sanchez on-fire

    Are there any more? I think Krest in the compression chamber might be longer than the cinema version too, but I'm not sure.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    -Goodbye to Dalton, Binder, Bliss, Brown, Hedison, and writer Richard Maibaum. Maibaum's contribution to the franchise and the character cannot be overstated.

    Ditto, underscored, capitalized. Maibaum was a godsend to this franchise. All other Bond scriptwriters pay regular obeisance to this fabulous writer's work. We will not see his like again...
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